EMDR

[ileftmypotatointheovenallnight]

Long one.

I had a recent stressful event and my mental health went downhill over 6 months. Lots of intrusive thoughts. Panic. Lots of talking to myself out loud in the mirror.

I found myself going back a lot to events that happened in my childhood. One was where I was locked in my room and DM was threatening violence with a knife. I was very scared and called the Police who did nothing. Never talked about it. But DM drank and I used to sit in class not knowing if she would be alive or dead after school.

I spoke to the GP who said it's possible I have PTSD from both events, people have it for a lot less they said.

They said EMDR can be v effective and gave me the number of a service.

My goodness. I have had 3 calls with them. The first they asked me indepth about all the things, current and past, I had to recount in depth all the childhood experiences. In the second they asked the same questions. They kept asking when I am in that moment am I looking at myself or am I the child. I was like WTF I don't know. I'm not looking at myself. There is no distinction. I am the child. Such an odd question. Why would I not be the child.

Third call. Had to explain AGAIN why I don't think CBT works for me. Too much homework. Therapist changes the approach half way through. I end up just saying I get it for the sake of pleasing them when I really just want to pick apart the way they see things and tell them but this is how I see it. I don't even know why I do this. I do see the value in the techniques. But they don't help me when I am triggered.

Should add I have AdHD and am probably autistic.

Anyway she has now referred me for an EMDR assessment which I feel like I am going to go along to and they will say we think you will benefit from CBT and just refer me to that.

Firstly why don't they believe I have PTSD? Who diagnoses PTSD? Second what do you need to be like to get offered EMDR? Third is it even helpful?

I feel like I'm just too functioning and I'm so beaten down by trying to advocate for myself. My brain is different and this is how it is for me. I really don't want to have to keep talking about this event but it keeps coming up.

I'm kind of sick of all of it to be honest, it's all so intrusive. I don't think I want to be around people at all. The assessor person has made it so unpleasant so far.

CBT does work for some people but I've had some really really awful experiences of it and it has made things worse for me rather than better.

I accessed EMDR and trauma therapy privately which was £££££ but it has been the only thing that has worked for me. Made a big difference from day one.

I don't know about how the NHS decides who can access EMDR so can't really help you but just wanted to say that I know how you feel about CBT! It also wasn't helped by loads of professionals being so pro CBT and making me feel like it was my fault that it didnt "work".

Part of my PTSD shows up as health anxiety and the CBT practitioner told me that any time I had a symptom I was worrying about I should get it checked at the GP. Totally wrong advice for someone with health anxiety. I would have been there every day.

Also I think the NHS pushes CBT because it is cheap and quick.

Why would EMDR cost more than CBT?

You really don't have to go through the hoops on this. There's a part of your subconscious which is trying to figure out what the hell happened back when you were a child for the express purpose of avoiding it ever happening in the future - it's doing this to protect you, not hurt you. However the reality is that you are no longer a child, you weren't in any way responsible for what happened and it can not ever happen again, so that part can now 'stand down'. Please have a look at my AMA on remedial hypnosis.

Am I looking at myself or am I the child is a totally valid question. When I was raped by a masked man who broke into the house I dissociated from it even during the attack. It was like I was on the ceiling looking down at what was happening. Even now if it ever crosses my mind it's like I'm a witness to the event not the actual victim. I think it's how the body protects itself after trauma. It's much too painful to think about what actually happened to me as the victims so clearly my mind tries to prevent it. They obviously didn't explain themselves properly and take your autism into account.

I did however end up having EMDR many years later (not specifically for that) and it really was transformational for me.

@HucklefinBerry MH nurse here. EMDR is much more expensive than CBT because it has to be undertaken by a qualified, experienced professional. People delivering EMDR should be clinical psychologists, psychotherapists or very experienced MH nurses-and all these professionals need to have completed an expensive EMDR training course. It’s also pretty common for EMDR therapy to last 18 months to 2 years of weekly sessions, depending on the trauma. This is in sharp contrast to CBT which is often delivered by “wellbeing practitioners” who’ve completed a 1 year course qualifying them to deliver 6 session “brief intervention”. This is really not suitable for trauma or any significant mental health need, really. CBT for trauma is another matter, but there is very little of that about.
@ileftmypotatointheovenallnight Don’t worry, your desire to pick things apart is normal; it’s your brain trying to protect you. A good therapist will understand this and work with it. Well done for reaching out. Acknowledging that you need help is hard.

When I was sat on the bed that was me. But I had to make my brain go very silent and I said to myself very loudly in my head whatever happens in life I am not going to let this fuck me up. I am not going to let it fuck me up and I am not going to fuck anyone else up. It was like a bomb had detonated in my brain and my brain was very quiet. Then I climbed out the window.

When I was running down the street away from it, I don't know. That was me at times. But other times I am looking at me. I can see the outside of the phone box I used from just above looking down. I see an image of me running. But is that because my mum said a neighbour saw me running so I have imagined what they saw.

It makes me feel physically sick that I am having to pick it apart.

It's too much to actually process.

Loosely speaking, CBT makes you 'unpack' all of the memories and then store them more effectively to deal with the feelings. EMDR replicates the 'automatic unpacking' process that happens when you sleep, essentially letting your brain do the work without you having to relive the trauma in such an in your face, analytical (?) way.

I've had both. I had EMDR after scary car crash. It was really helpful, and almost immediate in terms of seeing improvements. I had to sort of 'hold' the memory in my head while applying the EMDR techniques, rather than actively work with the memory iyswim, which would have probably induced a panic attack.

You sound like you're a bit worried about 'doing therapy wrong' in terms of feeling stumped about various questions. If you are upfront about your concerns and hesitations, they can accommodate you and guide you more thoroughly.

Thank you for all the replies. I have tried CBT and it's such a mixed bag. Hypnosis, I have no idea.

I did previously have a phone call with an EMDR private person and they said because of all the events (I only mentioned one) I had that it would be maybe medium to long term treatment. She said I likely won't get it on the NHS as I am primary not secondary care. DB is secondary care as he has paranoid schizophrenia. She said it sounded like PTSD, could be complex PTSD, wasn't able to diagnose. Whereas the person I spoke to on the NHS said they will only treat one event. Basically it won't be long term.

It's harder to get emdr as the nhs funds cbt training so i was paid to do this whereas I've had to pay for the emdr funding myself and it costs a lot. Therefore there are more cbt therapists readily available in the nhs than us dual trained. As a dual trained therapist there is no difference in effectiveness between the two treatments for trauma op. The only skew there could be is as to be emdr trained you must pay for the training yourself, most therapists who are trained in this are likely to have done cbt/ counselling for longer and are looking for a new way to develop their skills rather than fresh out of uni so you could therefore say those who are emdr trained could be overall more experienced. For example I am 10 years cbt trained and 2 years emdr whereas I supervise therapists in the nhs who have just finished their cbt training. If you wish for emdr you may need to pay private as it can be a battle to access it on the nhs good luck op

Thanks for the reply.

I think a way forward if I can't get it is to request CBT with a female therapist preferably one who gets perimenopause and to work on core beliefs. Last time was a male practitioner and I fell into people pleasing.

There are different kinds of CBT you know. Trauma focused CBT is a NICE recommended treatment for PTSD. Everyone seems obsessed with EMDR at the moment but I know loads of people who have had bad experiences with it.

Multiple events in childhood would be complex PTSD and primary care in our area only treat single event trauma. Secondary care wait list is upwards of 2 years if you want a female therapist. You could try to check out if there are any charity/ 3rd sector options in your area.

@ileftmypotatointheovenallnight this sounds like a good plan 😊

Sorry you’re going through this and for what happened to you @ileftmypotatointheovenallnight

Also sorry that you can’t easily access EMDR. For me it was the only treatment that helped my ptsd but I paid for it all myself privately. I realise not everyone is in a position to do this.
One reason it’s so good for ptsd is that you don’t have to re-live in depth the original trauma. You just need to briefly go there in your mind then you let it go and let the eye movements do their work. You don’t need to re-hash every single detail and dredge everything up.

Id suggest pushing and pushing for it in your situation. Could you access a free taster session with a private therapist and maybe get it in writing that it would benefit you?

i had EMDR many years ago through work for PTSD and disassociative amnesia..

the issue i had, it did help open the 'boxes' that i had closed and hidden for so long, however what they didn't do was then help me deal with these issues!

in the end, i stopped having the sessions because i was not being given the right tools to help.

i would do your research, make sure you have support in place because EMDR was good, but comes with a price tag and other issues

My partner has accessed EMDR for childhood trauma. He was on the waiting list for years. It’s via a psychiatrist and he sees her weekly, so defo way more expensive than CBT. He’s finding it helpful but you defo feel worse before you feel better as you are unpacking stuff you havent dealt with/find difficult, etc.

@JennieTheZebra I'm a bit shocked as a MH nurse you don't think CBT therapists are trained! The very least is a post graduate diploma (after prior training as a nurse/ psychologist/ equivalent). The issue is, as @ThePure has said, there are different levels of CBT.
People with trauma should be offered trauma focused CBT, delivered by a BABCP accredited therapist. Or EMDR.
The issue is 'CBT' has become a catch all term for therapy that is short term and looks at cognitive restructuring.
CBT needs to become a protected title, for those with appropriate qualifications to prevent some of the unhelpful and sometimes damaging experiences that people experience, who think (because they have been told) they are receiving CBT.
For anyone who is offered CBT, please ask the therapist's qualifications and if they are accredited with the BABCP. If not, chances are you are receiving 'CBT informed care' not CBT.

Took about six sessions of private emdr to cure my ptsd. No idea why a pp said it would take years

@sunshinegrey - the same guy did a similar video on hypnosis.

Thank you
Will watch it

I never tried EDMR but payed 2x fot hypnosis and it didn’t work

Yes, some CBT therapists are trained. In fact, although it's not my area of specialism, I'm postgrad CBT trained myself. The thing is, and I really hope you know this, but the vast VAST number of CBT "therapists" within the NHS are actually "wellbeing practitioners" with only a 1 year undergraduate diploma and very little experience. Most people offered CBT actually receive this, especially in primary care. Sure registered CBT therapists exist (in fact, I mentioned trauma informed CBT in my post) but they really are few and far between. The OP has to make sure that whoever cares for her has the relevant information expertise to manage trauma. Due to EMDR usually being trauma informed and CBT often not being so, this is more likely to be found through EMDR.

Exactly @JennieTheZebra - a Well-being Practitioner is not a CBT Therapist. A CBT therapist should be accreditable by the BABCP, due to the level of training.
It's a HUGE bugbear of mine, and I was surprised a Mental Health nurse was saying therapists aren't qualified. CBT therapists are qualified therapists, Wellbeing Practitioners are qualified to carry out CBT informed care, they are not qualified to carry out therapy.
Unfortunately, due to finances, people appear to be offered CBT informed care when they should be offered therapy. If the equivalent were to happen in physical care there would be (understandable) outrage. Just look at the issues with Associate Practitioners in GP practices. They have their place, but not if people are expecting to/ need to see a GP.