to ask not to be called this AGAIN, EVER

[Vamooshe]

I am having weekly therapy sessions under local authority having been on the waiting list for a couple of years so I am very lucky to have got this far I know.

At the start of the sessions in January I asked the therapist to help me treat the fact that I don't feel like a woman following a double mastectomy after breast cancer as an intrusive thought.

I had come to the conclusion it is a waste of my time and is part of my brain's reaction to the BRCA1 genetic cancer killing my mum and my sister (ovarian cancer). It was triggered by the school telling my son it might be possible for me to identify out of my cancer (yep got the gene, got my cancer diagnosis 2 months before my sister died) because it only attacks the females in our family. I was furious at the school at the time because it meant my mum and my sister had chosen to die as women rather than live as men. The school also wouldn't elaborate on how me no longer being female would be communicated to the cancer. I have already had my ovaries removed as well so there is less and less for the cancer to feed on.

So when my ex employer offered their Employee Assistance Programme I did try and speak to counsellors there but I didn't think of it as an intrusive thought then, I thought of it as a truth I had to find out. And their attitude was yes you can identify out of cancer if it is sex-specific because you can identify out of your bioligcal sex. Again, like the school they wouldn't say how my cells would go from XX to XY they would just say positive things like you can be who you want to be and when I said I want to be cancer free they'd say yes you can do this. Even Macmillan advice line wasn't helpful in being clear (they have now changed their advice - it says you can change sex but it won't reduce your risk profile if the cancer is sex-contingent) and so helped perpetuate in me this belief that there was a nugget of truth in what all these professional people were purporting to know.

Thing is I came to realise I had never felt like a woman even before my breasts and ovaries were removed. I had only ever felt like me. I had never identified as a woman. I just existed as one and was perceived by others as one. But before I came to realise that i went along with the EAP Aviva counsellors trynig to work out how I could trick the cancer into thinking I was a non-woman.So while they would want me to see if I was non-binary I said that was no good because the cancer might not recognise that and I would still be female enough for it to come back. So when they kept asking me what did I think my gender identity was I just said cancerfree - that is all I wanted to be, I wasn't really bothered about male or female I just wanted the cancer to know it couldn't return.

This turned into a song in my head (kind of to the tune of Spiderman) Cancerfree cancerfree everybody can be be cancer free when cancer's just an identity it's not a fucking disease. This is like a repetitive shibboleth I use but I know its OCD. I know it is nonsense and it can't keep me safe but I am compelled to sing it over and over (in my head mostly, out loud if no one is around). It drives me seriously insane. I hate it. But it makes me anxious not to do it.

So anyway - at the start I explained all this to the therapist and to say basically do not allow me to steer these sessions into musing over whether I can identify out of cancer. I have a huge distrust of mental health professionals as a result of all this advice as a result. I know deep down that it's not possible and that these people telling me I can identify out of cancer are not kind or are unwell mentally themselves.

So fast forward 6 sessions, gaining trust in counsellor and my cervical smear goes wrong. It isn't labelled and I now have to wait 3 months for the cervical cells to regrow before I can have a smear again. And I confide to the therapist that I fear this has happened because I wasn't keepng myself safe by singing that song over and over etc Anyway we finish the session and she has to ring me back about an hour later to confirm something and when I answer the phone she asked Hello is this Cancerfree? And I said yes but my heart sank. She believes it too.

I've had 1 more session with her since and I've closed down. It was a lot of silence.

If she thinks I can identify out of cancer what is the fucking point and if she doesn't but thinks it's kinder to help me be deluded what hope have I got of getting any better? I need to get back to work and I am just so rageful that on top of being required to fight / do battle with cancer (so my mum and sister died because they just didn't want to live enough?) we are now required to identify in or out of cancer like its a fashion choice.

So AIBU to say to counsellor I asked you at the beginning to help me STOP THINKING this not collude with me, the school or Aviva or is it utterly pointless to remind her of this and accept that mental health professionals (at least those in my orbit) are not well enough to help me.

OP, respectfully, I am truly sorry for the situation you are in. I think you need to call your local Crisis team, or call 111. If these current thoughts escalate and you find yourself increasingly distressed, please do not hesitate to go to A&E for your mental health.

@Vamooshe I am struggling to understand your posts but note you wanted to find other women who have chosen not to have reconstruction. I have had breast cancer (although not full mastectomy, just partial) and during my journey came across several women who chose not to do this. Instead some have had beautiful tattoos for instance, or nothing at all. There is an organisation called "Flat Friends". It might be worth engaging with them.

I wish you peace

”I need to find women who haven’t had reconstruction and find out if they regret it”

I think contacting MacMillan or Maggies would be your best bet. Only people who’ve really been through this can understand. You’ve had a huge amount of trauma and I hope you find the people who can help you find some peace.
https://www.maggies.org/
https://www.macmillan.org.uk/

I have had a double mastectomy and am completely flat. I turned down reconstruction. My second mastectomy was prophylactic and I had to have a psychological assessment before going ahead with it. One of the questions we talked about was how much, or not, was my femaleness defined by my breasts - because for some people, that is really important. For me, however, I still feel very female without breasts. I am still a woman, and appear and dress as one, even though I don’t use a prosthesis.

The organisation or Facebook group Flat Friends is very good, and there’s also a very good international one called Fierce Flat Forwards, I think that’s the name.

Does your hospital have a specialist psychologist support you can access?

The charity Breast Cancer Now has a Someone Like You service and they will put you in touch with someone who has had the same surgery.

Yes Maggies did the make up course I went on. I felt like an alien. I thought they were going to talk about caring for your skin through chemo etc. it was free make up and being taught how to apply eyebrows etc which was pointless when we all still had them at that stage! Also my skin was super sensitive and dry throughout chemo so trying to apply make up just hurt. The therapist is on holiday for next 2 weeks so I have a bit of time to think about how Ican try and get her to help me.

Thank you for all the responses. I am doing positive things when I can - I thought I hated exercise but it turns out I hated exercising with breasts - without is much easier! I am trying to be present in my body if that makes sense.

Hello @Vamooshe we're going to move your thread over to our Mental health board shortly. In the meantime, please take a look at our webguide for links to further support.

All the best.

@daisypond very helpful thanks I will come back to your post to re read and look up this weekend

@Vamooshe can I clarify whether I've understood what you're saying?

You don't have a gender identity - you've simply been 'you' and were born with a female body. (Incidentally, this is how I feel about myself too).

Your son has been taught about the idea of gender identity at school. Because breast cancer primarily affects women, your son understood from the gender identity idea that by identifying as something other than a woman, you could therefore identify out of having the cancer associated with women.

Following the traumatic cancer treatment and the loss you felt after your masectomy, your son's gender identity lesson and confusion triggered intrusive thoughts and paranoia. You began to fear that you may not be a woman and that you could actually 'identify' out of having cancer, even though your rational self knows that this cannot be the case.

The problem is that the people who are supposed to be supporting you are not addressing the paranoia and intrusive thoughts, or your trauma from the cancer and masectomy. Instead, they seem to be regarding you as potentially transgender, when actually you are seeking treatment for paranoia and intrusive thoughts (OCD?), and despite the fact that you have asked them not to affirm your intrusive and false thoughts.

Have I understood you correctly, OP? If so, I really think it's important to find a different therapist - one who openly rejects the 'gender-affirmative' approach and instead looks at the whole picture rather than seeing everything through the lens of gender identity.

I'm so sorry that you're going through such tough times. X

Ah, Vamoosh! Your later posts are so clear and make perfect sense!

You are butting up against everyone’s assumption that how you look is a major part of your personality/identity. So they are helping you with lots of things that are supposed to make you look better.

That’s a load of crap, I agree. I’m glad it’s there for women who want it- it may help them to cope and give them a sense something they can control.

It’s wrong that it’s such a focus, when you’ve been plain it isn’t important to you.

Some good leads up there- there will be other women who share your experience.

I worked with a woman who had a radical bilateral mastectomy as her mum and sister had died. She did lots of things about diet (which seems a bit unlikely to me) and went part time at work. She had no interest in her feminine appearance- didn’t wear make up or prosthetics. I didn’t know her well, but she seemed to be doing ok.

Hi just to answer your question about not having reconstruction and did anyone regret that decision - I definitely don’t regret it. I had a full right side mastectomy (8 years ago), so I’m lop sided now! I don’t think anything of it these days. The first two years after my surgery were really hard mentally, which took me by surprise. I didn’t have any mental health treatment which I regret now, looking back I would almost definitely have benefited from professional support.

You know what? I think you have every right to be angry and resentful about the headspace cancer has. It’s a scary fucking monster that you know MIGHT be lurking somewhere. As for the other “womanity” stuff, I get the feeling that for you it’s an entirely separate issue and really does need investigating. It must be hard to separate the two issues when they are both so huge and both have such an impact on how you view yourself and who you are. As an old fart and a nurse, I can assure you that we realise as we get older that we are both more and less than the sum of our pieces. (Our gender identity, our health, our plans, our career, etc…)