to ask not to be called this AGAIN, EVER

[Vamooshe]

I am having weekly therapy sessions under local authority having been on the waiting list for a couple of years so I am very lucky to have got this far I know.

At the start of the sessions in January I asked the therapist to help me treat the fact that I don't feel like a woman following a double mastectomy after breast cancer as an intrusive thought.

I had come to the conclusion it is a waste of my time and is part of my brain's reaction to the BRCA1 genetic cancer killing my mum and my sister (ovarian cancer). It was triggered by the school telling my son it might be possible for me to identify out of my cancer (yep got the gene, got my cancer diagnosis 2 months before my sister died) because it only attacks the females in our family. I was furious at the school at the time because it meant my mum and my sister had chosen to die as women rather than live as men. The school also wouldn't elaborate on how me no longer being female would be communicated to the cancer. I have already had my ovaries removed as well so there is less and less for the cancer to feed on.

So when my ex employer offered their Employee Assistance Programme I did try and speak to counsellors there but I didn't think of it as an intrusive thought then, I thought of it as a truth I had to find out. And their attitude was yes you can identify out of cancer if it is sex-specific because you can identify out of your bioligcal sex. Again, like the school they wouldn't say how my cells would go from XX to XY they would just say positive things like you can be who you want to be and when I said I want to be cancer free they'd say yes you can do this. Even Macmillan advice line wasn't helpful in being clear (they have now changed their advice - it says you can change sex but it won't reduce your risk profile if the cancer is sex-contingent) and so helped perpetuate in me this belief that there was a nugget of truth in what all these professional people were purporting to know.

Thing is I came to realise I had never felt like a woman even before my breasts and ovaries were removed. I had only ever felt like me. I had never identified as a woman. I just existed as one and was perceived by others as one. But before I came to realise that i went along with the EAP Aviva counsellors trynig to work out how I could trick the cancer into thinking I was a non-woman.So while they would want me to see if I was non-binary I said that was no good because the cancer might not recognise that and I would still be female enough for it to come back. So when they kept asking me what did I think my gender identity was I just said cancerfree - that is all I wanted to be, I wasn't really bothered about male or female I just wanted the cancer to know it couldn't return.

This turned into a song in my head (kind of to the tune of Spiderman) Cancerfree cancerfree everybody can be be cancer free when cancer's just an identity it's not a fucking disease. This is like a repetitive shibboleth I use but I know its OCD. I know it is nonsense and it can't keep me safe but I am compelled to sing it over and over (in my head mostly, out loud if no one is around). It drives me seriously insane. I hate it. But it makes me anxious not to do it.

So anyway - at the start I explained all this to the therapist and to say basically do not allow me to steer these sessions into musing over whether I can identify out of cancer. I have a huge distrust of mental health professionals as a result of all this advice as a result. I know deep down that it's not possible and that these people telling me I can identify out of cancer are not kind or are unwell mentally themselves.

So fast forward 6 sessions, gaining trust in counsellor and my cervical smear goes wrong. It isn't labelled and I now have to wait 3 months for the cervical cells to regrow before I can have a smear again. And I confide to the therapist that I fear this has happened because I wasn't keepng myself safe by singing that song over and over etc Anyway we finish the session and she has to ring me back about an hour later to confirm something and when I answer the phone she asked Hello is this Cancerfree? And I said yes but my heart sank. She believes it too.

I've had 1 more session with her since and I've closed down. It was a lot of silence.

If she thinks I can identify out of cancer what is the fucking point and if she doesn't but thinks it's kinder to help me be deluded what hope have I got of getting any better? I need to get back to work and I am just so rageful that on top of being required to fight / do battle with cancer (so my mum and sister died because they just didn't want to live enough?) we are now required to identify in or out of cancer like its a fashion choice.

So AIBU to say to counsellor I asked you at the beginning to help me STOP THINKING this not collude with me, the school or Aviva or is it utterly pointless to remind her of this and accept that mental health professionals (at least those in my orbit) are not well enough to help me.

Kindly, I feel no matter what anyone says, it will be the wrong thing.

I'm a bit confused by your post. I think the stress you are under is making you fixate on minor details and nuances that aren't really there; and the need to protect yourself by rituals (singing a song) points to OCD (I have been diagnosed with OCD myself).

I do think you need help with your mental health - it sounds like the counselling you were having wasn't right for you - so perhaps see if you could have another type of counselling?

I hope your next smear is reassuring, and wish you the best

Did the therapist say she thought you could 'identify out of cancer'? Was it just that she accidentally called you by that name? Maybe it was just stuck in her mind as you mentioned this mantra kind of phrase that you do. It doesn't mean she believes it. I think it's challenging as you seem to be saying you want the therapist to make you unlearn these thoughts, but that's no easy task and could take some time. She also may be trying to address other issues that might affect your mindset. It seems a shame to stop going as it will be hard to get a new one on the LA without another long wait.

I’m only going to focus on one thing, as you’re clearly seriously unwell and vulnerable. Having seen several different therapists under my own employer’s EAP scheme, I think that their selection process is spotty and the quality of the therapists equally so, AND that the chances of an individual happening to find a therapist to suit their needs via this kind of scheme is slim to none. Find yourself a therapist — look up the BACP directory. You need someone who is experienced in health anxiety and OCD.

No credible individual thinks you can ‘identify out’ of cancer.

I’m confused, OP, I feel like your thoughts appear somewhat chaotic still. Sorry if I say the wrong thing in my post if I have missed or misunderstood something.

Did she actually call you “Cancerfree”? Is that a name you asked her to use at some point, or is it the name that’s listed on your files?

I am saddened though, that somehow having a double mastectomy has triggered some kind of “I must be trans/male” reaction in your head and shocked to hear that you appear to have received information from professionals that encouraged you in those thoughts, rather than helping you through the trauma of losing both your family members and your breasts.

If the therapist has used a name that is listed somewhere, or that you asked her to use at some point, I think you should go back to her and tell her directly that you don’t want her to use that name again. Hopefully it was just an error.

If the therapist doesn’t respect that, but tries to to persuade you that your rejection of that name is somehow a problem, or whatever, then she probably isn’t the right therapist for you.

Whatever happens, I hope you find some clarity. Dealing psychologically with any brush with cancer and any operation, is difficult enough, without having “trans” politics dragged in to confuse you.

I don't think anyone thinks you can identify out of cancer.

But your therapist was bonkers to address you by a phrase in your compulsive mantra. What was she thinking, trying to use it like a pet name or something? I'm sure she didn't mean to be hurtful but I can imagine it felt like she was taking the mick.

Yes, I’m also confused by what name it actually was this therapist addressed you by that you found so upsetting? Are you saying she actually called you by a term from the ‘refrain’ of your OCD mantra?

Yes, is this actually what happened? If so, that’s deeply unprofessional of the therapist!

It sounds like maybe she misunderstood you saying you ‘identify’ as ‘cancer free’ and that you don’t align with gender pronouns but just see yourself as ‘cancer free’ and was trying to be respectful but just didn’t get it?

Still strange she wouldn’t just use your name unless you’ve said you have an issue with being called it.

Agree with others that whilst it is wonderful you are seeking support, you may need something more specific to you. It sounds like you’ve been through a lot of trauma in relation to your losses and living with the fear of cancer, as well as the treatment you’ve been through, so someone who has a background in trauma therapy or identity struggles (there are many parts to identify and gender is just one part), May be a good start.

Oh wow. I can hear your distress. I’m so sorry.

I don’t fully understand what has happened. I wonder whether the understandable complexity of your feelings and needs And past experiences makes it very hard for people to communicate effectively with you- phone counselling is inadequate I think.

Have you seen a GP for treatment for the OCD? Intrusive thoughts, health anxiety, may well need medication as well as therapy.

💐 I want to say you are a survivor, you are bravely facing your fears and emotions and health conditions- but I don’t know whether that’s of any help to you at all.

I would say regardless of anything else, try and be kind to yourself in small practical ways- little moments of selfcare where you just pause and enjoy that moment- are very good for you.

I have never heard of being able to "identify yourself out of cancer" and find the concept to be incredibly insulting to anyone with cancer! My .um and sister both had cancer and it was purely to do with female biology and nothing to do with any perceived identity. I'm really shocked that this has ever been conceived of as a theory; it's like laying the blame for cancer with the sufferer. I don't think anyone has any control over whether they get cancer or not. Someone can live a very healthy lifestyle and get cancer and others who lead very unhealthy lifestyles don't. It's down to genetics; my sisters oncologist said there are probably hundreds of cancer genes that just haven't been identified yet and is just a genetic lottery for each individual. I do hope you get the support you need and a full recovery. The rest sounds like complete psychobabble.

But the BRCA gene mutations affect male risks of certain cancers as well? They don't only affect females.

Please, see your GP and request referral for urgent psych assessment, as you're spiralling following your losses and diagnosis/treatment, understandably so where you've been speaking to people who do not have specialised knowledge about the conditions and risks. Macmillan may also be able to help you.

Any fucking health professional who thinks you can identify out of a gene-specific determinate by identifying as a different sex to one different to the one assigned to you at birth should be registered for handing out dangerously misleading information.
As for the school…. Ffs!

I think you need to speak to your GP.

Do you have a Macmillan nurse/contact? Maybe they could help or at least put you in touch with someone reputable to talk to.

Maybe they are trying to help but they just don't understand what your particular needs are. A lot of us here on Mumsnet won't either. I think you can find a different therapist. If you're in the UK, some places offer counselling on the NHS and you can self refer. CBT doesn't work for everyone but it can help with PTSD, intrusive thoughts, anxiety and so on.

If you could choose a new name, what would it be?

With the greatest of respect, OP. I don’t think this thread will help you and probably cause more stress and confusion to you.
I really think you need to call 111 and speak to someone.

This, in spades. Well said @Coshei

i stress @Vamooshe the advice that you need to speak to someone else about your mental health.

Maybe she thought that's how you were comfortable being addressed since it was your mantra. If it lessens your anxiety I believe the therapist was just trying to be supportive in what you're doing. Not more than that. If you asked the therapist to not do that in the beginning, it could be simple human error and they forgot. You are special, but they do see alot of people I'm assuming? I can't see any sane person, there to help you, purposely trying to provoke your negative emotions.

It was triggered by the school telling my son it might be possible for me to identify out of my cancer
School told your son this? Really??

OP this situation is way too complex for this counsellor. You need an experienced clinical psychologist. As others have said, check the BACP website and speak to a few psychologists who are happy to work with you and then arrange private sessions for the one you have a rapport with.

I am so sorry that you are having people blame you for your illness when it is completely outside of your control.

Lets be absolutely clear - you can not 'identify out of your cancer'. That is a load of complete bollocks - bet your oncologist isn't saying this to you.

No one can change sex, although you can decide to live as a member of the opposite sex. But you will still have the BRCA gene sadly. I'm sorry you have lost your Mum and sister due to this gene. That's so hard.

You have done what you can to reduce your changes of cancer by having your ovaries and breasts removed. And I can understand how this has completely knocked you sideways.

I've just had a quick look on the t'internet for support groups for those with BRCA - Macmillan and The Eva Appeal offer specific support for those with BRCA - you could make contact with them.

Interestingly also saw that men with BRCA gene have higher risk of prostate, pancreas and breast cancer which just goes to underline how much bollocks is spoken about 'gender identity' by people whose understanding of biology and disease is next to zero.

This ☝️

To answer your AIBU, no you are not unreasonable to ask not to be addressed as "Cancerfree". I don't know what the therapist was thinking, and can only speculate that she has given you a nickname in her head. It seems unprofessional and insensitive, because it seems to belittle your situation.

You should tell her how very undermining and distressing you found that. You should ask her if it had a therapeutic goal, and if she says there was, explain that since it undermined your trust in her it didn't work.

You are obviously hugely vulnerable at the moment and need a therapist whom you can trust.

If you can explain to her the effect of her calling you Cancerfree, and she can understand it, and "defuse" it, then you may end up with a better therapeutic relationship going forward. However, if not, you should make a formal complaint about her and demand a therapist who is able to respect your needs and take your problems seriously.

OP you’ve explained the situation with such clarity and understanding and insight. It’s such a pity your counsellor has messed up. Like others said go back to your GP, but in the meantime, maybe give the counsellor one last chance. You are tough and you will solve this. Good luck.

Best of luck op, hope things get easier for you x

Hi I’m not explaining it very well but the first post in reply starting Kindly prob nailed it as is so often the case 😂

as in the more outrageously offensive the suggestion the more I want to kick it into the sea the more it attaches itself to my brain and whispers but why would anyone (especially a teacher/ counsellor / therapist etc) say this unless it was true? I feel asking for help has opened me up to being gaslit into choosing an identity because I don’t feel like me

they want to focus on me feeling not like a woman but I keep trying to explain I never felt like a woman I just didn’t know any difference

so for example - I haven’t had the breast reconstruction surgery - all the treatment emphasis has been don’t worry about the cancer focus on attending wig and make up classes for chemo so you don’t scare people with your face - and when I was told i would need double mastectomy was all about don’t worry we will remove your breasts but we can rebuild them so you can be a woman again

I think what has made me collapse mentally is trying to accept that breast cancer treatment is all very very focused on realising you are tightly under the male gaze and must remain so and it is enraging me (surgical menopause and no HRT due to causing cancer is too) I need to find women who haven’t had reconstruction and find out if they regret it