Held to ransom by MH

[Brandnewskytohangyourstarsupon]

This is going to sound awful. But it is a consideration for those around the person suffering from a MH disorder.

A family member with various MH diagnosis. On medication, talking therapy very close loving and supportive family & friends.
Holding down a job but sick record is appalling. Lucky to still have it.

Extremely supportive family, travel to see them to bring them food, to clean the flat for them, to offer love and support and to put their minds at rest by seeing and spending time with them. Live about an hour away.
Another family member has loaned a large amount to clear the debt to prevent eviction.

They are off work again. Can’t pay monthly payment for loan this month.
Due to gaming all night have let family down again saying not available to meet up. Cancel last minute when travelled there, don’t come home when everything is prepared for them.

No one dare say anything to upset them for fear of them declining into depression or doing something to harm themselves.
So they carry on with this awful selfish behaviour that is tearing their family apart.
Mother’s Day will be spent in fear and in tears as they have said they are not now available, no reason given.
A series of things showing that on their part only they matter. Zero effort made for anyone else.
Family terrified constantly that they will do something to harm themselves or end their life.
Egg shells even when they do something that impacts several other people without thought or care.

No drugs, alcohol, children, partners involved in any of this. One person, mid 20’s with depressive illness. Has been “well” for about 2 years.

What on earth is the answer here?

Sending hugs as that sounds really challenging.

Sometimes there just isn’t an answer. They are getting lots of help, they have support surrounding them - but they need to want to help themselves too.

My DH has episodes of depression so I understand a little of it. It’s so hard to sit back and watch the destruction, but if everything is already being done then you have to look after yourself too.

Thank you.

The most difficult part is as you say, there is no answer.
It is SO so frustrating.
Not that many years ago, without the insight that we have now, someone will have had a conversation laying out how unacceptable this behaviour is. How it affects people around them. But now, no one will.

So it goes on.

My question is, are people aware of this?
Does it add to an already present sense of crushing guilt or are they completely oblivious?

Would pointing it out, asking for some consideration tip someone I to suicidal thoughts?

I know I am coming across as insensitive to MH, I don’t mean to be.
When you have lost someone to suicide (as I have) I think it makes you hyper aware of everything.

Your OP isn’t very clear on what the family member is doing that you consider ‘selfish’.

You seem to be saying that the family had planned to visit them or meet up near their location today but that they pulled out last minute? And that they have done this a fair few times.

Also to be angry with them for taking more time off sick from work when they are on ‘thin ice’ with their employer.

It’s so, so difficult.

There is someone in my life who is both clinically deperessed, and a selfish arsehole (always has been).

I love him but it’s so so difficult to know how his behaviour is driven by mental illness or twattishness, and so how much I should forgive/ deal with it.

I have no answer for you OP, but I’m sending you solidarity.

My DH knows the impact on the people around him and always says it makes him worse if I point out to him the damage he’s doing. He says it’s not his fault, that I don’t understand and he wouldn’t do it if he had any control over it.

During bad times his mum will ask me about how we’re doing and he isn’t happy that she cares about the impact on us (me and the children) as much as caring about how he feels.

When he’s well he will put other people first without any question but when he’s ill as though his world and his skewed perception of the world is the only thing that matters.

So to answer your question - yes I think they know, but they think it’s fine because they’re ill, and no amount of pointing out, strong words, or straight talking will get through until they are ready to listen.

Everyone is different! Every depressive episode is different too.

I completely get the feeling of walking on eggshells in case it pushes them over the edge too.

If you have a conversation laying out how unacceptable the behaviour is, in my experience one of two things will happen:

One they will feel tremendously guilty and upset that they cannot manage to behave normally and this will be channeled into feeling like they are wrong and a bad person. This usually leads to self harm and sometimes suicide.

Two they will reject your criticism as "you just don't understand" and will pull away from you.

I have been on both sides of it.

People with severe mh disorders do not stop behaving like they have severe mh disorders just because someone else tells them they are not adhering to social norms.

The family need to detach with love.

They can support the person. They should not give more than they can cope with either emotionally or financially.

Again I thank you for your kind words and understanding of this.
It feels comforting to be able to talk to people who understand through their own experiences.

I suppose the “selfish” aspect comes from letting people down badly. Again and again.
But I understand that at the time of making the arrangements to see people, they felt happy to this and ok. When the time actually came, they had decided that they didn’t want to fulfil the arrangement.
Due to gaming all night, knowing that the people were travelling with foods for their fridge and freezer, a table booked at a local pub, a special birthday for a parent. That felt selfish. The text came as they had arrived after travelling especially to the home of this person.
Not the first time.

They almost certainly will not have cancelled due to gaming all night.

If you say they repeatedly cancel in situations like this then it sounds more like they know their family want them to do this activity/whatever it is but they know in their heart they are really not up to it.

I have vomited with fear before entering an in laws house because their behaviour makes me so anxious.

Yes it is selfish.

Some people can adhere to social norms with no difficulty. Some people cannot.

This person currently cannot, and the usual thing that is said of people who can't adhere to social norms is said - they are selfish.

But really, if your life is so shit you are depressed then why would you go do something that makes you anxious?

Unfortunately it is due to gaming all night.

Probably due to insomnia.
Sleep is awful for them. Gaming distracts and makes the night go. They then sleep all day. But sleep they do.

Life is not shit either (from the outside)
They have a great job, well paid, lovely flat which they share with a best friend from school.
Great long term friends (again from school) , lovely caring stable family. Had a great upbringing, surrounded by very close loving family. Not rich but not poor either.

Had a break down of a relationship which tipped them so far over the edge it was feared they would never come back. Can’t seem to find their mojo again. ( it’s been over 3 years since break up)

If the person lives alone how do you know there reason for cancelling is because they were gaming all night?
I think in order to understand MH problems you have to have experienced them yourself. Before I suffered from anxiety and depression I would have 100% thought like you do - that it’s selfish to cancel things etc. Like it almost seems like an excuse to be flaky. But the reality is very different. It’s a big black hole that sucks you up, rather than something you are sucking up yourself. Doing things can feel very overwhelming and make you feel more unwell, mixed with a feeling of everyone will have a better time without you anyway because it destroys your confidence.
Insomnia is often part of it. Night time is when the overwhelming feelings happen and you can’t switch them off. Day time you sleep because your brain finally gives in. It might seem selfish to you, but there really isn’t any choice involved when depression and anxiety kick in. It’s a hard fight. You wouldn’t think this way if your relative had physical pain that effected them, it’s no different apart from the massive stigma attached to mental health.

Saying this is the physical equivalent of saying someone eats healthy so shouldn’t have cancer or they don’t have osteoporosis so it’s impossible they broke a bone.
Depression is often a chemical imbalance in the brain, it doesn’t need lots of catastrophic events to trigger it.

True. So true.

Flat mate concurs with the person saying that they have been gaming all night. That’s how we know.

There really is no answer is there. Just continue to be there for them with love and support and suck up the blackness along side them.
It’s a punishing life for all involved.
Terribly sad.

Stop enabling the behaviour! You are giving this person free right to treat you crap, stop tolerating it.

You are describing the outside of their life.

Great job, lovely flat, friends.

The inside of people's lives is known to them, and often has very little to do with the outside.

Rich people can be mentally ill. They can be anxious and depressed and have psychotic episodes.

Mental health is driven not by jobs and money but by relationships with people.

If the person you are talking about was in an abusive relationship then it won't matter that the outside of their life is great, it will take them time to recover from it.

If the person you are talking about was sexually assaulted at school and still bears the mental scars but has never told anyone the inside of their life will not match up to their outside.

However, regardless of what is causing it, you should not give more than you can cope with emotionally or financially.

However it does sound like they routinely can't cope with family meet ups so expecting that would be sensible.

Have they expressed a wish to get "better"?

Good question, I don’t recall them ever verbally saying that they want to or wish they could be better.

They do all the right things on the surface.
They have a health anxiety so are very engaged with their GP. Take medications and when able to afford it do go to therapy.

Just to add, no abusive relationship, very loving but just fell out of love. No sexual assaults or anything like that(that we know about)

It's a difficult one. When someone doesn't have any consequences for their actions then there's little incentive to change. And, being uncharitable for a moment, if they learn that behaving in a certain way absolves them of any negative reactions - or actively rewards them - then where's the reason to stop?

It might be worth having a conversation about where they'd like to see themselves when they are recovered. Look at it this way. When we break a leg we need a pair of crutches to get around, they are invaluable at that time. But imagine if once we accept those crutches we're then required to carry them everywhere with us, long after the leg has healed. Putting the crutches down will lead to three possible outcomes; we find another crutch, we fall over but we get back up again, unhurt, or we realise it was the crutches that were holding us back.

I think you need to step away from blame and meet them where they are. On some level you’re attributing their MH to your perception of them making bad decisions. Just accept the situation. It’s lovely to take food for them but you could get a supermarket delivery which may be easier for them to cope with. They’re up all night try and arrange to visit later on. Not sure about your relative but many people use things like gaming to distract them from thoughts of harming themself. If the doctor has signed them off sick accept they’re not well enough to work. If you want to meet up choose something less taxing than sitting in a restaurant. You’re not responsible for their happiness just try and support on their terms and you’ll be less disappointed. It sounds like they are trying with medication and therapy

You do have a choice. Your relative doesn’t have a choice (apart from medications and counselling to ease it), but you can decide how much involvement you want. If it’s effecting you, you can choose to detach and/or support from a distance.