Can 111 do anything? *TW* mentions suicide

[waitingonthestars]

My DH has had depression for years, it's been fairly well managed for most of that time but the last 12-18 months his moods have been lower and lower and he never seems to be able to come out of it. Myself and family have tried to get him to see the DR as his medication clearly isn't working anymore but to no avail.

The last few weeks have been pretty bad, he's snappy, angry, low and tired all of the time. This week has been awful and yesterday we hit the worst point we've ever got to. He said in the morning that he just couldn't be bothered with anything anymore but still went in to work. I rang the GP and asked for someone to give him a call. I let him know I had done this. The Gp called him but he refused to answer.

Then yesterday he saw somebody die on the street whilst he was working. It was very traumatic and it's honestly knocked him over the edge. He was crying uncontrollably last night (I've only ever seen him cry twice in the 13 years we've been together), he was saying his brain isn't working, begging me to tell him why he is like this, saying he can't go on anymore.

I managed to get him to bed and he went in to a restless sleep. But I'm terrified today. Something needs to be done and it needs to be done asap. He won't go to the Gp in the week because he works full time and his hours aren't regular hours so it would mean taking time off work, this is a complete no go for him as routine is key and anything like that makes him more stressed than ever. So I'm wondering if the best thing would be for me to ring 111 today and explain that he is at complete breaking point and see if they can get him an out of hours GP appt. He won't want to go but at least if I'm here as well I've got more chance of getting him there rather that a phone appt that he can ignore.

Will 111 be able to do this or is there no help available at weekends?

Also I should mention, he would point blank refuse to talk to 111 himself so would I be able to make the appointment for him? When I've rung in the past for him they've needed to speak to him (he had the flu and asked me to call).

They will send you an ambulance but that might be what he needs. Good luck.

Really I think 111 will want him to go to A&E to see the crisis team. Is there any chance you can convince him to go?

There should be a local mental health crisis phone line you can call if you Google for it, that might be worth a try.

Can you mobilise any family to support you to get him to A&E?

Sorry he is going through this, and you are too.

This NHS page tells you what to do: https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/mental-health-services/

Thanks everyone, I've arranged childcare incase we need to go anywhere so I will give 111 a call now

@Trixiedrum thanks for the suggestion I have just found the number for the local 24 hour crisis team so I'm on hold to them now. If that doesn't work I'll try 111

This must be really difficult for you op, and I’m sorry to hear of what your both going through at the movement. 111 is a good option, in some areas when you call through they have an option to go straight through to mental health. It’s likely that they will send someone out to chat too/assess your dh and decide whether he needs assessment under the mental health act or to be supported/signposted to other services.

I hope you both soon get the support that you need.

*moment

I was about to say crisis team. If you read this whilst on hold, and I hope you do, my advice is to be very very persistent with them and vocal about your concerns, spelling out just how high you think the risk is, and why. Take the names of whoever you speak to, and ask them to document your concerns as a family member. If they make a plan, get timescales and a number for who you call if that things that are promised aren't delivered upon

We seem to have hit a brick wall already, I spoke to the crisis team who said that they can't help unless he speaks to them himself. They said even if he does all they can offer is helpful tips and talking etc they can't change his medication. So I rang 111 and they said they could either refer me back to that crisis team or we can wait and see the Gp next week. Which he won't do because of work.

Wish I could package up some strength and good wishes to send via the internet as it sounds like a really difficult time for both of you.

Your DH is very lucky to have you working so hard fighting his corner.

Please be kind to yourself and make sure you have support too.

If you go to A&E he will be seen by the crisis team. Can you get him there?

Options:

GP and referral to AMHS
ED and wait for crisis team
Self referral to talking space

does he get any occupational health benefits through work

Just to update, we literally got nowhere today. I managed to persuade him to call the crisis team, they recommended therapy and said he needed to see a GP today. I called 111 back and asked for a GP appt which they got him for this afternoon. The Gp said he needs therapy, said that the nhs wait time is over 2 years so he would need to go private. The one they recommended is £85 per session. I know he desperately needs it but it's something we have no chance of being able to pay for at the moment. They said they don't think doing anything with his medication would help because it would be short term.

I'm exhausted from it all, I know that sounds terrible because it's not me going through it but I'm so tired of trying to get him the help and then the people who are supposed to help him don't do anything. I have mental health issues myself (although no where near this extent) and I'm trying to do my best to make sure my two very young children are ok and aren't picking up on what's going on, make sure my DH doesn't do something terrible and generally just trying to keep the house happy and upbeat and I honestly don't know how much longer I can keep it up!

Call the Crisis Team again. Tell them you are worried about him coming to harm by his own hand and aren't able to assess the risk of this as you aren't a professional and can't see things objectively. Get upset and angry with them, they won't do anything otherwise. They don't want you to go to A&E as their own admission is that they recommend that in cases of physical illness or imminent or occuring physical harm. Tell them you need someone to assess him tonight and can't be solely responsible for his safety and mental health if they don't come out. Their watch word is SAFETY of the person and if you think your husband isn't safe then it's their job to review him. Yes they (and GP) may say they can't change his longer term medication but they CAN AND DO AND SHOULD be able to prescribe or bring with them short term medication to mitigate immediate harm, help him calm down, help him sleep etc.

I know this sounds hysterical but I have been through the same with my brother on and off for three years. He is under EIP (Early Intervention in Psychosis) team but the crisis team still come out in crisis and are currently visiting him daily as he is spiralling. Explain to them you know they view you as a protective factor being a loving family member who cares, but that you feel his safety is compromised and you aren't sure you can keep him safe yourself, let alone the distress this is causing you and your children. They will use you as protection against him coming to harm until it has completely used you up, from sad and bitter experience.

Please message me if you need to, keep knocking on doors (phone calls in reality and an ambulance if you feel it's required, and don't feel you need to downplay anything... a mental health emergency is as much an emergency as anything physical).

The point of the crisis team is to keep people in crisis out of hospital, but the only way they can even try to do that is to see him. Given his recent trauma and longer term MH issues they are being negligent not to see him and of course some short term medication may help, their response and that of the GP is awful. If your husband is under a psychiatrist then obviously they would do longer term medication switches or adjustment but others involved can and should prescribe to alleviate or help in crisis situations.

@apapuchi thank you so much for your comment, I'm really sorry you have also been through similar. They've refused to even refer him to a psychologist which I think is ridiculous. They think all he needs is to talk to somebody. He's had depression for most of his life and countless therapies and non of it makes any difference!! He's not someone who's depression is bought on by certain situations etc it's always there and most of the time he never sees any good in life. This isn't something that will be dealt with by just talking to somebody, he needs medication changes to go along with that.
I've honestly never felt so hopeless and helpless about a situation that nobody seems to want to help with!

I wish I could give you a cuddle, corny as it is, I can imagine your pain and even worse I think as it's your husband. I think longer term you need to contact PALS and raise the failure to care for him short and longer term. I can help you with that if you need support, not assuming you wouldn't be more than capable of that yourself as you are doing so much with so little help.

How is your husband now? How worried are you he may do something to harm himself or that he is deteriorating? Sending you virtual support in shedloads.💗

as I mentioned above, try talking space, it’s a self referral system and waiting time is 4 weeks for counselling

Please google or Facebook search 'Andy's man club' lots of men dancing with the black dog and many who have attempted suicide. It's been an invaluable resource for at least 4 men I know personally. It's not a cure but it's a good place to start for men because he can chat with the community online and see he is not alone. They offer lots of support.