Stiff upper lip v more open approach

[Quiltedandwilted88]

Just thinking aloud here after a thought provoking conversation about mental health with my teen dds. They were basically accusing me and their dad of not being open enough with them about the every day pressures we face.

I agreed that maybe we were too protective which they accepted but I also
tried to explain gently that while being open, sharing worries and asking for help is absolutely the right thing to do in certain situations, stiff upper lip isn’t all bad either, because it’s partly designed to protect others around you and spare them concern. And partly because it helps us self regulate in a way that encourages us to keep going.

A bit like showing up at work in a clean and presentable way is partly for your own self esteem and partly to show respect for others who see you and who are in physical proximity to you.

This was met by a howl of outrage by my teens who said that the stiff upper lip was patriarchal because it was designed to keep the lower orders in their place. It’s apparently people in charge who perpetrate it to stop those they control complaining about unfair situations, in order to maintain the unjust status quo, which was a view I hadn’t heard before.

They also said that if you were with people who weren’t ‘toxic’ then you can be honest and express as much unhappiness as you want and be met with acceptance and sympathy but the fact that you feel able to do this means you probably won’t feel the need to!

As someone who has been brought up to spare other people’s feelings and not automatically share every worry, I feel torn between my old traditional values and this new outlook. Surely it’s good to talk but it’s also good to be stoic and have some forbearance too? But I was also intrigued by my teens’ pov and think it has some merit too so now I don’t know what I think!

Sorry for the long post but is anyone else struggling to defend old fashioned values and do you think they have enough merit to be worth defending in the first place?

I think what we oldies value as discretion and resilience, the youth see as dishonesty and superficiality.

I agree with you, but then I'm also old! I do think there's a balance between gritting your teeth and getting on with it through tough times but on the other hand not suffering unnecessarily when there is help available.

See that fence over there? -> that's me, perched on it 😆

that's such an interesting viewpoint and it does make sense in one way.

But on the other hand I wouldn't burden my kids with all of my worries. Why would I?

So I think in some situations it is good to pull yourself together (for example children, work) but of course everyone needs a place to vent, complain, be vulnerable and let emotions all out.

Is it the patriarchy trying to control us? Hmmm. My clients wouldn't want me to have a meltdown in front of them, they need me to be strong (and yes, I do share once emotions aren't raw anymore, but never in the moment.)

Would be interesting to hear what others think

I think I will join you Eyesopenwideawake 🤣

Honestly, apart from when my knees hurt, I don’t usually feel that old. But talking to my teens makes me feel antediluvian!

Mrseven I may have misrepresented their comment about the patriarchy: I think they were talking more about the origins of the stiff upper lip mindset rather than its practical application in that instance. But I fully agree with you about appropriate time and place!

I'm with you on this, OP. Of course the stiff upper lip mentality can be damaging if taken to extremes (as I know from my upbringing) but it can also encourage resilience. Humankind would've died out long ago without it. Such openness is simply not possible for most people and certainly not for our ancestors. It's naive in my opinion to think otherwise. The great advances in human history have come through dogged determination. Every generation reacts against earlier ones, though, it's nothing new.

Stiff upper lip done to extremes isn't good, but I also don't like the trend for treating every person in your life as an unpaid therapist. There's some about viewing everything as in need of therapy that I don't find helpful and seems to breed unhealthy relationships and unhealthy oversharing.

There's also a problem of adultification when parents speak to their children as if they're equals/peers when it isn't a peer relationship. Children don't need to shoulder the burdens, financial worries, relationship issues, employment issues of their parents.

Like others I'm sitting on the fence.

I think you could look at using ring theory here - I first saw it for people with cancer - but think it could also apply that every community / group / person sits in rings where the one who needs / deserves most support is that the centre. Then person closest to them is next ring, etc. you are allowed to rant / rave to those outside your ring but would stiff upper lip to anyone inside.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringtheoryy_(psychology)

No, stick to what you’re doing. I don’t think would have really appreciated a mother who leaned on them too much for emotional support or one who burdened them with an excessive amount of worry. They simply haven’t got any awareness of that scenario because they’ve been lucky enough not to experience it. I would agree with them regarding a certain level of emotional intimacy but that there is a balance to be had, particularly with children. I would validate their view point but to be honest I wouldn’t be swayed. I’m too long in the tooth to be swayed by woke teen girls, as lovely as they are.

Thanks TreesatSea my other bugbear is that, with no man an island, there doesn’t seem to be enough consideration for others; it’s all about what is optimum for the individual, but I know that is a very old-fashioned view.

They have forgotten about privacy. Not everyone needs to hear everything, and not everyone should be burdened by everything. It's not that you don't share information, just that you don't share indiscriminately.

Sharing feelings is ideally a consent based process. In therapy it is one way. In personal relationships it is often two way. But there are incidences where Person A shares and Person B does not what them to share. Why should I have to listen to Person A moaning?.

It is not desirable or appropriate to share everything with everyone.

In particular it is not right to share so much with your own children that you are essentially parentifying them. I had that growing up and the effects are long-lasting and unfunny to put it mildly.

Much depends on what they want you to share. If they would like you to share more of the general frustrations of practical living such as paying bills, cleaning the house or whatever then that may be useful information and worth sharing. If someone close to you dies it is probably better to show your grief rather than hide it - but even then, you may not naturally grieve in a way that gives anyone much to see. And that is just fine. If they are suggesting that every time you and DH have a tiff they should know all the details then no, absolutely not.

You could try asking them how they would feel about a friend who moaned all the time about various problems and shared every single negative feeling. At some point would they not start to find it a bit dull and maybe prefer not to spend time with that friend? Of course they may say no no no I would be super supportive but perhaps in their heart they will admit it would get wearing.

Likewise how would they feel if their teacher came to school and said you know what kids, I’m really tired today and hate my job, I just don’t feel like making much of an effort, here’s a worksheet. Would they think that’s ok, he’s just sharing his feelings? Or would that be unprofessional?

I’m not sure I agree with them about the origins of stiff upper lip. It was expected among the upper classes most of all, which doesn’t fit with their keeping people in their place narrative. In fact I think the whole idea was that “the lower orders” couldn’t be expected to control their emotions but their “betters” were supposed to have more self control.

I share quite a but with DD when I've had a bad day, or I'm upset about something or worried, or something went wrong.

However she also sees me getting up the next day, getting ready and going in, no matter how shit yesterday was.

She sees me trying to come up with solutions for whatever went wrong, fixing it and then getting over it.

She sees me dealing with whatever upset me in healthy ways like talking about it (with a friend or OH), taking some time to myself, a bath or read a book, just some quiet time etc.

She's learning that yes shit happens, yes sometimes it brings us down, but it's how you deal with it what really matters , and that's it's dealt with in healthy, productive ways.

She's also learning that her own feelings,bad days and shitty moods are ok. Ok to feel and ok to show and talk about. Then we explore what can make HER feel better.

Atm she's hormotional as fuck so not particularly fun for her or me so kinda regretting that approach. I'm sure it will pass eventually, and the way we are prepares her for the future in a balanced way.

its just immaturity

what they mean is they want other people to take responsibility for their "issues" not that they want any responsibilitiy for anyone elses

They are very young, they will grow up, dont worry

There needs to be a balance. Young people need to understand that feeling sad is normal, feeling anxious is normal etc… And not every single negative emotion needs to be analysed to death, a lot of the time they can be overcome without intervention.

But how do they understand that if those emotions and ways of dealing with them aren't being shown to them as part of normal life?

Apologies late catching up with these replies, had a work trip yesterday. Thank you so much for them; as ever the wise women of Mumsnet come up trumps with this sort of question.

Agree that there needs to be a balance and as JustAnotherManicNameChange says, leading by example is always the best teaching method. Also very much agree with everyone about not leaning emotionally on your dc or sharing too much.

Thank you Minipie that's an excellent way of explaining it to them! I'm not sure about the origins of the stiff upper lip either but I can see in the past it would have been a useful tool with which the upper echelons could potentially suppress complaints by the peasant classes. I'll have to ask them where that theory came from. As you say I thought it was more "we've been born with privilege so we mustn't complain".

And thanks FusionChefGeoff I've never heard of ring theory so will be interested to find out more about it.

Thank you everyone.

Btw, very much agree with the comments below about privacy and using everyone you meet as an unpaid therapist.

But how do they understand that if those emotions and ways of dealing with them aren't being shown to them as part of normal life?
I suppose it's context and also developing an understanding that they are being exposed to different feelings, just that for a lot of adults this isn't in a rant on social media/broadcasting/ over-sharing / offloading like it's therapy way.

In recent years I've had to explain to some teens at work that being civil and polite is not the same as being fake. Some of them will genuinely argue to continue the teen drama because they don't want to be a faker and feel the need to vocalise every thought.