I just don't think i'll ever have any friends, ever again.

[totalmisfit]

I'm a fairly regular poster but have name changed for obvious reasons. i'm really pretty useless and quite a horrible person. i feel like the part of me which used to enable me to 'put myself out there' and make friends has been eroded over the years, to the point where I have nothing to say to anyone, and i end avoiding some social situations and just being a 'wallflower' in the ones i force myself into.

my daughter is nearly 2 and i know she will model a lot of her behaviour on me as she grows older. What kind of an example can i set her, having absolutely no friends whatsoever? I was a lonely kid at school and i would hate for her to end up bullied and isolated the way i was.

I take her to toddler groups and playgroups quite a few times each week. She really enjoys herself and I feel better for getting out of the house with her but when it comes to the other mothers i tend to smile and thats it. when i do try and start a conversation it falls flat pretty quickly and i realise i have nothing to say which would be of any interest to anyone. As a result i tend to just babble to my daughter, as it's easier than feeling stupid. It does sting when i see all the other mums getting on brilliantly. i just wish i could be like that.

any time i do make a friend they tend to ditch me pretty quickly as i'm obviously pretty repellent. Sorry i will have to post and run and see to dd as she's just woken from her nap.

TM - just because you arent a great conversationalist - that doesnt make you a horrible person. You are such a cool Mum for attending these things when they make you feel horrid!

Have you tried the art of reflecting the conversation? People love to talk about themselves. I don't mean interrogate them! Just ask questions. Try and see yourself as a good listener, reflect their body language as they talk.

Have to go now
Back later.

reflecting the conversation? well i get so self conscious whenever i talk to anyone its hard to have a strategy. i just go to pieces really, and if i do ask questions i find it hard to know what to say after they answer iyswim? i end up mumbling something like 'oh, i see.' and that kind of kills the conversation...

awwww blimey well dont you have a lot on your plate, and it really seems to be getting you down and sad.

deep breath at the positive and wonderful things that you do but probbaly deny yourself credit for

attending playgroups requires

• timekeeping organisation motivation*interst in DD welfare

It is hard to make friends at groups, we all get that sinking im-babling-jibber-jibber-Feeling. honestly everyone does not all admit it tho

So what can be done

TALK to someone who will genuinely listen and empathise eg friend, partner, GP

Accept you are unhapppy presently but this can change - wont be overnight. will take time , tears and effort

Sorry you had rubbish time at school, but this odes not necessarily mean dd will. these are unrelated issues, she is a different wee girl

take care

hi i have to go out but couldn't read and run

want to send as you are plainly not a horrible person just struggling at the moment which is QUITE A DIFFERENT THING

gettingabitlost has good advice but I want to very briefly give you my handy conversational one-size-fits all which is"

"have you had a busy day?"
"are you having a busy day?"

as most people you meet will be going to sainsbury's and doing pretty boring stuff which is none the less very easy to talk about then there's something you can join in without too much difficulty

plus what about doing a lot at home with dd, crafty stuff, cooking etc and that's something to talk about and tell funny stories about?

plus one more tip -- pretend you are confident and that everyone in the room wants to meet you and behave that way

this does work I promise you
it makes you more appealing and less shy-looking (obviously) but above all don't have a downer on yourself

Try asking them how old their child is or when their birthday is. Then you can usually say something along the lines of 'Oh thats a good time for parties in the garden' - for summer birhdays '
or 'oh that must be hard work' - close to xmas etc.

Or ask them if their child is going to be going to a pre school, and then 'which one?' and 'how do you like it?' 'is it expensive?' What times are the sessions?', etc etc Obviously not fire them out one after the other but most people can chat about this sort of thing.

Maybe comment on a peice of clothing the child of the mum next to you is wearing.'Ooh I love those tights, I'm looking for a pair of xxx for dd'

Lots of mums feel the same as you and are pleased when somebody chats to them. If you try to have a mini chat each time you see these people, over time it will build and then they'll recognise you and say 'hi' and smile and chat etc.

princessmel that is great advice

Thanks stuffitall

I really think that most mums juat chat about everyday , normal stuff . All they want is to be out of the house somewhere different for an hour or so and chat whilst the children play.

true, we all have the wee one's in common. it sometimes just needss a push and bit of oomph to establish conversation

many great suggestions already made
Names - "what is you child called - oh i like that name"

"do you attend any other groups/sessions"

"did you travel far to get here"

obviously not all rapid game-show host delivery, but they are innoccous questions

Comment when dd plays with other children "oh it is great when they...."

oh god it can be soooo hard at play groups etc

i am a confident person and i find it tortuous at play groups etc - i am sure it is not you!

are there more organised things to go to eg music every week so you see the same small group of mums every week? that would be a lot easier

you dont have to have lots to talk about - being friendly and interested is more than most people manage

Whereabouts do you live TM, maybe there are some Mums on here that you could get to know online and arrange a meet up? Maybe it would be easier than meeting up "cold"?
Feeling shy is horrid and hardwork but if people understand how you feel they will probably go the extra mile?

thanks everyone
great tips - will endeavor to put them into practice

df - i'm in London - another reason why i feel a bit silly - a city of 8 million people and i can't seem to relate to anyone

When are next going to a toddler group?

I meant 'when are you next going'.

...you just haven't found the people you can relate to MF, understandable if you are shy.

I think Princessmel's conversation starters are great for breaking the ice with people.

Maybe you could start a new thread inviting MNers in your part of London to chat with you and help you break though your social barrier?

I feel exactly the same as what you have said in your post. I know what the questions are that you should ask other people in these situations but then once they have said their bit I have nothing to add so it kinda feels like I am surveying them or interviewing them. I don't like telling complete strangers anything personal about me at all and I blush, sweat and shake when I am talking and think that people must think I am a total freak. I had some hypnotherapy to combat socially paralysing anxiety attacks but I couldn't afford the full course so I still have no real self confidence.

To be honest, I am not really all that interested in hearing every aspect of a complete strangers life - especially the ones who only want to go on about "can your child do this this and this yet??? Mine did it when they were still in the womb!!!!" Like competitive mothers - and there are plenty!!!

I think I am a horrible person too but then I don't like all of the new people I met. Some people are just not meant to be your friend. Not everyone gets on and I think maybe sometimes the people you are trying to be friends with might just not be "right" for you and the friendship fizzles out. It shouldn't be hard work to make friends with people - both sides should have to put in some effort, not just you. Mind you, this is coming from someone who is in the same position as you so maybe my advice is a bit cr@p!!!

I think I can empathise with what you are feeling 110% and you just feel so trapped and stuck and angry at yourself. If you find a solution - please let me know because even though people tell you to "put yourself out there" there are only so many times you can do that without feeling like you are looking ridiculous and desparate you know?

Sorry if my post isn't really helpful but I thought I would just add my thoughts and let you know you are sooooo not the only one feeling like this. If I weren't so shy we would probably be great friends cos we prob have the same personality!!! heh heh

Take care

AngelEyes74, yes mums come with all kinds of personalities, conversation topics, and we don't all indulge in the baby olymics eg mine read Chaucer and Descartes at 2 weeks blah blah fwiw that competitive mummy probably has her own self esteem issues and may just be over compensating

so actually some of the conversation starters as fear inducing as you may find them are harmless, innocuous, non-competitive topics. assuming negatively and incorrectly that other mums are competitive or going to bore you to death with every boring aspect of their lives is fatalistic, and becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. thus if you assume other mums are not for you (because of your own insecurities/fears) chances are you wont appear as warm, or engaging as you can be.

really this is about cognition, you expect and think a negative outcome.probably to
protect yourself from disappointment's

Deep breath, and give other mums a chance so that they can give you a chance. It cuts both ways

TF im in same city as you....

Hi
Totalmisfit

Just wanted to say that you are not alone in all of this.
I have also posted on mumsnett about myself.
I have been crippled by shyness all of my life, and the problem has got to me more since I had my DS.

I can honestly say that I do not have one single friend due to my inability to be able to make small talk, or even try to get to know anyone.
The truth is that I can never think of a thing to say and worry that I may not say the right thing.
I feel really nervous if I am put in a situation were I have to talk to anyone.
I find it difficult at my DS school and always feel as though I am on the outside of a conversation trying to break in and am not really part of it anyway.
I never seem to get much of a conversation going with anyone even if I do try it falls flat with me also.
I worry about my DS he does not have any other children to play with due to me not having mom friends.
It has always just been me and my DS I never have anyone to share outings with.
It really sucks.
I know its up to us to change things but I just find it all so difficult.
I look at others and they seem so at ease chatting away.
You do need to have faith in yourself as a person though and see yourself as a worthy friend to someone.
Its probably people like us that would be a good friend.

crazed - that seems sad - i do hope you find the bravery to go out there and make friends for you both - there are people out there who would be delighted to get to know you - and no, not everyone chats away easily - everyone has their issues and worries - and some days people are just grumpy or unfriendly and it is about them and not you

i hope you and tm follow your good advice and make this the new year to have lots of fun and friendship xx

Hello crazedupmom
You to have really struggled. I used to find things difficult like that. It's changed now.
You seem so articulate, I'm surprised you can't make small talk. I had a load of strategies. It was "learned" with me.. I used to listen to people having conversations and copy their techniques later! Then of course with some success you stop being so self conscious and expecting people to turn away, which makes a big difference. Good luck with it all

angeleyes74 and crazedupmum - I'm sorry to hear you're in a very similar position to me. Perhaps we should make this a kind of support thread for mums who have a hard time making friends? I know what you mean - if only we could get past our shyness we'd probably find we could be great support to one another - even if it's just sitting quietly, knowing that neither of us knows what to say

perhaps we could all report on our progress in 'getting out there' each week and congratulate each other on any small progress we make - and share the 'failures' too?

hi there; I'm sorry you ladies are felling like this. I'm in a similar situation in that I once was vwery confident and outgoing but since having PND after my son was born (and having it now after my DD was born 8 months ago) my life has been very different.

It is difficult to get out there and just make friends and I think most people struggle with it in their own way, especially as you get older.

I am lucky though in that since I moved to this town to get married nearly three years ago, I have had the support of the wives o two of my DHs friends and we have since become very good friends ourselves. It bothers me that I have no real friends independant of this, although after a slow start I'm beginning to get friendly with a couple of the mums at DSs school. It makes the playground a much less stressful place to be.

Have you had a look on Mumsnet Local for local groups? If you could make contact with another MNetter who attends a local group they will go oout of their way to welcome you I'm sure. I've been meaning to go to a local group here where I know there is at least one other MNetter (circumstances have stopped me from going) who has said to say Hi when I get there. I'm determined to make the effort this week. I'll report back here if I may (if you all want to talk to me that is

Going regularly is also a key thing; my friend said to me the other day that at the NCT group she goes too there are a few women who only attend every so often and who seem to be more on the edge of things and she is making sure she goes to it religiously. In only six weeks she has already made some new friends.

So, a long winded way of saying choose one or two groups you liked most and if you only do two things in the week, make it that you go without fail to those groups. Once you are seen to be more regular it will get easier.

Hi
Totalmisfit

Yes it would be nice if we could support each other through this.

Before I even found out about mumsnett I had never confided in anyone about how I was feeling never felt able to.

I always felt as if I was on my own with this problem and nobody else was going through the same thing.
Mumsnett is a great help.

I would dearly love to have some friends.
I drop my son off at school come home and see nobody, or talk to anybody, all day.
I know I need to sort myself out get out there and meet people.
I think of myself doing it and think maybe it wouldn't be so hard but when it comes to it I back out.

Hi TM - cor your original post could have been written by me! I went to one paygroup and it was awful and I have never gone back.
But, I have met some great people on MN (all equally as mad as me - and they know who they are if they are reading this!). Have you joined in with a thread from your local area? Have a look in the meet up section.
Good luck, sweetie - and never be afraid of anyone x x

actually this does bring back memories of being "frosted" at a particular playgroup
ouch

just want to send a in case you still need one

TMF good on you for going to all these groups when you find it so hard I missed a few sessions of dd's playgroup in November... then it was Xmas... then the New Year... yup, managed to make an excuse not to go every week for three months now. Just gets harder the longer I don't do it. Sorry I don't have any good advice but I know how you feel and I hope things start looking up for you. Like you, I don't think I used to be this socially useless, so I harbour a flicker of hope that eventually some of my rusty old social skills will re-emerge.