Narcisstic family and going low contact

[T42U]

Hello, I would really like some advise from people who have gone low contact with their family. Mother and sister all exhibiting narcisstic traits - thankfully not just I see it but my brothers also. However its come to a head now after my 50 years on the planet where I honestly have to change myself and my behaviour towards them . I am the problem now not them. I am constantly getting upset over their behaviour and as I get older I know its effecting my own beautiful family. My husband and kids are so patient but its wearing thin now regarding my reactions when these two individuals text or don't text, ring or don't ring, include me or don't include me etc etc. Although its mostly me including never them ALWAYS TRYING to instigate a relationship. I am holding on to this dream I suspect that all will be fine eventually , but in reality its not and won't be. My sister and mother have zero respect for me or even care. Long history of terrible toxic behaviour and I was always making excuses for them in my own head and with other people. Interestingly now more people are seeing their behaviour and I am blessed to have support from my brothers and husband. But I feel so sad and my husband tells me I am bullied by them and they will always be bullies. I guess my rather long post wants some advise on people who didn't break the contact altogether but just distanced themselves emotionally and perhaps some practical things I could do.

To add my sister and mother do get on very well and will go on hols together, visit each other often etc. But I will never be invited or if I am its a case of the actual event never happening. I am a good person and I have a wonderful relationship with my relatives who find my mother especially a major challenge. As I get older I can see that my mental health is suffering as a result of their behaviour and I want to change all that. I have for years blamed myself for the failing in the relationships I always felt it must be me that did something, but more recently I can see actually I didn't do anything wrong bar want to have a loving relationship with these two people. All the help books I have got just don't seem to be helping me or give myself my self worth. I want to ignore their noise and actually accept its actually ok not to reply to a text if they send one and not feel guilty about it. Its ok to not answer the phone and its actually ok not to turn up to a family event if its going to make me sick ahead of time and ruin my own childrens family time. More recently I was ill and both knew I was having major surgery and no calls and only a text a few days later from my mother wondering was my little procedure over and could I bring some cakes from a bakery near me for a friend of hers who was having a hip replacement and needed her support when I was visiting. Nothing at all from my sister. I Families!!! Thanks for listening!

It’s not easy, it is worth it in the end though. For me going NC was the only way for me to cope, I didn’t want my toxic family effecting my DCs, my youngest dosnt even know who my mother is and my older 2 now don’t ask about her and know that she’s no longer part of my life, as with my brother and his family.

Best advice, get counselling. It really dose take time and there will be times you will doubt yourself and maybe even a time you feel things may have changed, I made this mistake after a 6 year NC period. Things don’t change and for me it made me feel even worse and effected my children, if I had stayed NC my family would never have been in their lives at all. Being able to talk to someone neutral who understands these situations is definitely worth it. Minds Matters is great, unfortunately there is a long wait so even if you can afford a few sessions privately, do it.

I just stopped calling, having contact, I got lots of I don’t know what I’ve done wrong comments. It’s so hard when this happens as thats when I question myself because it’s not just one thing, it’s a million. I now have them all blocked and don’t engage at all.

One of the hardest parts is extended family events. I love my extended family, far more than my immediate family do, one of my issues is the way they constantly slag off and put down people in the family, but they are all sweetness and light to their faces and although they have no desire to go to events they would turn up just to get one up on me and put me on the spot. So I don’t go as it’s not fair on others being put in the middle.

It’s so good you have the support of you DH & DB. Good luck x

I feel for you. I went NC with my mum at aged 34. 10 years on we have limited contact but that is it ans only ever on my terms. Best thing I ever did but it isn't an easy way out. It is about changing the dynamic and ensuring you look after yourself. I found/find there is a long period of grieving for what could have been. And as the other poster said... the loss and entanglement of extended family has been the most difficult... but then the lies and distortions about me and my DH in my case were beginning to do that anyway.

Most importantly look after yourself. Counselling worked well for me and if nothing else helped me to have an independent witness to hear me and my story.

Thank you so much for posting and well done to you both on getting the courage to go NC. What you both said really does make sense and ring through. Interesting @AliceMcK how you love your extended family. Its so true here too. Ironically my mothers sister is like a mother to me and she doesn't want my mother to even know we have that sort of relationship. I think the time has come to go and get counselling, its not that I am young anymore. I don't want to spend the next 30 years feeling so sad, hurt and just not me. I am never me around them and even having to respond to a text takes me half the day and then I am questioning myself. Thats no way to be! Life is so short and as my DH says you have to stop playing their mind games. @Thingamebobwotsit your so right its like grieve as in your grieving for what you don't have.

Thank you again, I actually feel a bit better for the first time in ages after sharing it. I now know I need to talk share and get help to enjoy my own life and not live in the shadow of theirs. 🌺

@T42U Im late 40s but my family have this way of turning me into an adolescent who dosnt know who she is. I lived away from them for a long time and was able to be myself. My DH only met my parents at our wedding and my siblings 3 years later. I don’t think he really understood what I’d told him until he saw for himself how different I was around them and how they treated me. At first it was all nice, efforts made but there were always undertones and the facade didn’t last especially after we moved closer to them location wise. I thought we were finally going to get on and they wanted and cared about my life, but it was just a fantasy I had, I’m awake now and know the only thing that matters is me, my DH and my children.

I could’ve written your post verbatim OP but it’s my DH ‘family’ with this dynamic. He’s the scapegoat, narc youngest SIL the golden child and middle SIL the flying monkey/doormat. I tried so hard to be part of their family but when we had children the mean girl behaviour ramped up. Playing family off against each, lying and nasty gossip.

I’ve been so so hurt over the last 30 years and ended up seeking therapy a few weeks ago after a family wedding as I want to achieve peace within myself. I can really recommend this - and the psychologist has experience of family trauma so ‘gets’ the crazy behaviour.

Also have a look at the Stately Homes thread on MN - great advice from others going through this.

Sending you 💐

@Fluffygoon it really isn't easy and you took the huge step to get outside help. Something I now know I have to do or the next 30 years of my life will be a complete train wreck. Its awful how other people influence our behaviour and our inner peace, or lack of it in all our cases.
I do know at this stage that we are never going to change these people so really its up to ourselves to change our behaviours towards them. For me its the confidence to do this and not feel guilty. It makes no sense to me why I would feel guilty and yet I do. Its interesting that you can be confident in every other area of your life and then bang one or two people knock it out of you. I realised too that "hurt people hurt people" so clearly they all have issues.
My problem at the moment now too is that my mother is coming to me for Christmas - two days. She is only coming as she doesn't want to show the rest of the world she had nowhere to go. Its awful even how writing that down makes me feel. I really dont want to have my kids day on edge so I made a pact with my husband that this would be the last christmas I would have her and horrible as that sounds I am going to stick to it. I know if I say no now to her I will feel bad and it will cause lots of additional headaches, so I have to take baby steps and stick with them. Same sister always has her christmas with her family and makes it clear early on her plans that very rarely include my mother on the day but they always have a couple of nights away together with her kids during christmas.

Thank you again to you all and @AliceMcK I too am awake this morning. Hopefully it continues to last!! 🌺

I recommend having a look at the forum on the Out of the Fog website. I totally understand where you are coming from and you have my sympathy. There is no way I could cope with having my mother to stay for two days!

Although I see my mother frequently I would classify it as low contact because the contact is for short periods of time and I keep myself aloof, giving her no information about how I really feel or think.

@Cranarc thank you and the thought of those two days are making me feel sick, thats the truth. But in turn I have promised myself and family its the last time. Its gas my younger kids have clicked the atmosphere already and told me that they would be making everyone including Grandma watch cartoons all afternoon and make new christmas jigsaws that I could spend the time in the kitchen making SOOOOOOOOOOOO many treats. Ah out of the mouth of babes. But yet its impacting the next generation for sure. I am going to do my best to have my kids happy and not worried on the day and next day. Thankfully she is not coming until christmas day lunchtime so the kids will have Father Christmas with a Mum who hopefully won't be too much on edge. Thank you all again. Low contact needed for sure now and to be disciplined about it. Its your heart that needs convincing I guess - as your head has seen it for a long time! Tx.

@Cranarc That’s a good forum recommendation. Shocking how similar these patterns of behaviour are.

@T42U We only have to enjoy endure MIL’ s company for a few hours over Christmas. My DH can’t stand any more. It’s interesting to see the behaviour through the eyes of the children. My MIL made my son cry when he was 7 by putting golden GC on a pedestal and my DC in the gutter, verbally, if I hadn’t been there and seen it he wouldn’t have been able to explain how sociopathic it was. That was the moment I ‘got it’ and went LC/NC.

I think Christmas is the season of having ‘happy family’ on adverts/tv and in narcland it’s just not like that. Logically I know they won’t change and I need to reframe everything. The counselling is helping with this.

Feel similar re. My dad. He is so, so selfish and just blind to how he makes me feel. Never remembers birthdays or grandchildrens birthdays, never sends a card at Christmas. But has a new girlfriend and despite me traveling 9 hours to see him, spent every second on the phone to her, texting an entire week. I keep accidentally letting my hopes creep up only to get crushed again. It's just so hard to imagine what goes through their heads isnt it, especially if they say they love you.

@Carouselfish it must be a trait to go on the phone. My mother does this all the time too. I hear you so clearly when you note getting your hopes up to have them crushed again. Even yesterday my mother rang out of the blue and my first thought was gosh maybe she is ringing me to have a chat. What was wrong with me, it was as clear as day she was fishing for information about another family member I am close too and is very ill. I also notice too my sister always gets in touch ahead of her meeting my mother or vice vearsa. Its all so stupid in the stream of things.

You know at the end of the day we have to change ourselves and our attitudes to them all, I know its so easy to write that but to practice it is such a huge thing. Also sometimes you just cannot switch your feelings to "not caring". The hurt is literally embedded into us I think.

All logic goes out the window when dealing with certain people. I have as luck would have it got these two individuals in a family present thing and instead of just putting a voucher in a card I found myself going around like a lunatic in the city yesterday trying to get them something nice and spending more time on them than my kids. Now who is wrong there, I know its me and its only me that can change. Take care everyone 💓

Hi all, popping back in and hoping that some advise will trigger me to cop on and recalibrate myself back to ignoring the noise and realise nothing changes. I am annoyed with myself as I am trying to keep contact to somewhat of a minimum with mother and sister and be kind and civil when I do engage and then move on after I engage and not let any comments or no comments annoy or upset me. But this week on a family groupchat I posted a picture of my dd who has special needs at her christmas nativity play. Usually I don't post too many snaps but this photo was really magical and I just felt it would be nice to share. My mother ignored it as did my sister but my brothers all commented. An hour later my sister posted a story noting her daughter was going for an xray this week and my mother posted a long text wishing her luck wanting to know more etc etc. Now I am a sensible person and level headed at the best of times but when it comes to these individuals I just really cannot handle it and I felt upset today. Now I know in the stream of the history of their behaviour its nothing big and I shouldn't let it get to me but it did and it actually makes me sound like I am jealous and needy. My day is so busy with work and home life that I honestly shouldn't even be engaging in this and giving it headspace. But today it just all came to a head with me. Now if I could just get Christmas day with my mother over with I might be able to start again afresh. I would love to remove myself from family group chat as these messages shouldn't bother me and I should be able to handle them. Thanks for listening. Feel better all ready!

You would love to remove yourself from the family group chat..... so...:Who are you waiting to get permission from? Do it.

If you remove yourself from public forums with them you remove the risk of being publicly snubbed or ridiculed. You also remove some of their power to show you up or make their point. It's probably less fun for them on 121. So i'd stick to v limited direct comms only.

Your brothers love you so will clearly set up another with you over time as will others.

Set up a boundary. I am going to call my mum once a week/fortnight/month. On Sunday before we go for a family
Walk to clear my head. On Thursday before my boxing class. Wednesday in my lunch break so it doesnt eat into family time. On your time and your terms. Then ignore wherever possible in between unless an emergency. This will be hard at first. If when you speak she is rude or offensive. Cut the call short and say you will call the next week. Instant text replies or accepting ad hoc calls are for friends who love you and treat you with respect and kindness. Aim to decrease the frequency to once a month.

Why are you still having her over for Christmas? There is time to change plans.

@vivaespanaole virtual hug your way. Thank you for the absolute common sense advise. Sometimes you just need others who understand to reset your thinking! Thanks again.

No problem! Always easy when you are on the outside.

If they contact you, always sit on it for a while. They will try and draw you back in. Don't fall for it. When you reply instantly is when you later kick yourself. After a few hours the urge to reply will pass. Or you will have sussed their motives out.

When you leave the chat you may be asked whats wrong or be accused of flouncing or all sorts. Expect it. Plan for it. Have your response or non response ready.

I'd suggest ignore and then call breezily as per your schedule and skim over with a oh gosh lots going on you know christmas heads a shed tee hee hee.

Or just say notifications getting too much from all the different group chats so you have cut back so not distracted all the time.

You owe these people nothing. It doesnt matter what they think about you pulling back. They may well get worse for a while and lash out as they realise they are losing control over you. But honestly, won't that just tell you everything you need to know?

Its mean. You deserve better.

Thank you! and merry christmas - I feel stronger already!🎄

Those group chats can be so powerful in pulling you back in.
My siblings either completely ignore my posts/photos or respond enthusiastically ….always unpredictable .
It’s a form of control.
I am trying not to post as much or at all and not to respond to their posts so quickly or at all.
It’s not easy as I know I have no choice but to be in contact with them but have to distance myself for self protection.
My new year’s resolution is to step back from the siblings Whatsapp group.

@SoyMarina I am to going to pull back and try try and try to get on with my own life and not let them not effect me. Best of luck with your distance journey too! Take care!

I think the thing that blew my mind the most when I first began to distance myself was that when I refused to do certain things like a visit or whatever, the sky did not fall in. Yes, my mum was angry and all that entails, but she couldn't do a thing about it. And I had the choice to simply hang up the phone and not uphold my end of the drama. It's quite liberating to realize that you actually CAN just step off the train if you like and they have no power to do anything about it. Madness that this is something I only learned at 37yrs old but it just shows the dynamic of my family. Once I was pregnant with my daughter I just saw everything so clearly and knew it was up to me to deal with. I don't want my kids to feel the way I've always felt. My parents have no idea what my problem is of course, they are still waiting for me to "get out of my huff". I've explained things many times but of course they don't agree with my reasons so they still don't know why🙄

Counselling was (and still is) a must for me, but there are many things that have helped me along the way. The book Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, websites such as Out of the FOG, a blog called Issendai Down The Rabbithole, which gives a bit of context to the way many of our parents behave, and a couple of reddit threads which helped at the time but my god, reddit is a cesspit and its hard to ignore the nonsense on others subs, haha! All of these things really helped me to hear others stories and to process my own bit by bit by bit.

I mute the group chats now. I can't quite bring myself to "eatingjumper has left the chat", but I mute it and never post now. It's sad but distance it the only way.

Eatingjumper well done!

I heard Sally traffic on radio 2 say something that really stuck with me today.

She was talking about christmas and pressures and perfect families. And she said yes it can be a healing time and a chance to end rifts, but at the same time look after yourself and never build a bridge to a warzone.

I liked that simple statement.

HI all,
Hope everyone is having a nice few days and managed to enjoy Christmas Day. Well I survived the two days of my house guest. I did have to bite my tongue but I did it, I also am taking this new year to step back on the whatsapp. A very good friend of mine tells me when a text comes in take your time and give yourself at least 3 hours before you respond and keep answers short and without emotion. I really am going to try and do that going forward. I won't change her or my sister who is on a roll at the moment hurting me, but I can change myself. They have gone on holidays now together for a week to the sun and it hurt not to be even asked would I like to go, but also it cements the fact that they didn't want me there either. As my husband said do you want to be with people who really don't want you there, just to make the optics of mother and daughters and sisters look good! Onwards and upwards. Happy new year all!

Happy new year all.
Well, one of my new year resolutions is to step back from the Siblings Whatsapp group….
I resolve to not start conversations and to only respond with closed statements so I’m not expecting an answer iykwim.

iykwim😀Good luck!!