Is this intrusive thoughts?

[AnxietBeGone]

I've had on and off anxiety since DC1 was born. It got triggered badly again after DC2, had CBT and felt so much better.

Recently I feel awful again. What happens is I get an idea in my head and then I will Google it and look for clues until I am utterly convinced it will happen. I always jump to the absolute worst case scenario where it won't be fixable, my life will be ruined and most of all I will have failed my DC massively. (Sometimes they are relatively trivial things that still feel like the end of the world, sometimes they're really bad things like a brain tumour)

They used to last a few days until I got tired of worrying and moved on or got distracted enough by life or replaced it with a new worry. This latest one has been going on a few weeks though and I feel worse everyday. I am sure we are days away from disaster. I'm starting to feel physically symptoms that confirm my fear.

Are they intrusive thoughts? How can I stop them?

Also how do I know if they are an intrusive thought or a real threat? With the current one I'm struggling because I genuinely think its a real threat. If I thought it was just my anxiety I might be able to move on?

It's now impacting my life massively, I have spent at least 2 hours a day googling and researching it this week, plus 2 hours a day doing actual things to try and prevent it (think along the lines of deep cleaning the house). I have then spent every waking hour trying to figure out other things I could do to help prevent it. Its also involved spending money (reasonable amounts and within my means but still)

You are most definitely suffering from intrusive thoughts. I had these in my 20s and 30s and they were all health related. Exactly as you describe, I would obsess about a perceived problem until I'd seek medical reassurance and I'd find peace until a few days later when I would replace it with another concern. For me, I had grown up having to be hyper vigilant around difficult parents and so when I didn't have to worry about them anymore, I had to find something else to monitor.

The two things that helped me were sertraline and psychoanalytic therapy. But it takes time. I think the first step is understanding that you are living with intrusive thoughts and that they present as real risks.

I feel for you. I have been there but it is possible to overcome

It does sound like intrusive thoughts, but without detail it’s hard to say. Do you have a trusted friend that will be honest with you that you can open up to?

This is exactly what I had, it started after giving birth to my DS.

I couldn't let something go until I had 'replaced' it with an even bigger worry and was endlessly googling etc which was just feeding the issue.

It got completely out of hand and I ended up being diagnosed with postpartum psychosis. I couldn't sleep, couldn't leave the house etc and had to have professionals come to the house. They told me the thoughts were intrusive, and it got to the stage I couldn't work out what was real and what wasn't. I used to have to ask my DH to rationalise for me and tell me what was real and what wasn't. I couldn't believe he was right tho until I accepted that I was poorly, and that was the turning point for me I think looking back. I started referring to things as 'my illness' and kind of separated it from 'me' (if that makes sense)

It lasted about 6 months in total and I only started coming out of it when I got put on mirtazapine. This made me sleep through the night (I couldn't before due to the anxiety and heart palpitations) It was a very scary time in my life, but I have made a complete recovery with the right help, sleep and medication.

I would go to your GP and take it from there. I had to push for a referral to the crisis team in the end, I wish I had gone for help sooner than I did. Hope you get sorted x

I know you mentioned CBT helped before and I wonder if it would be helpful to revisit some of the techniques you used. There is a good website for self help with bits on if you wanted to do some things yourself but I would really suggest having a chat with your doctor.

Just to add, I came off the mirtazapine after being on it for 6 months, but I felt I could have come off it before then

I have intrusive thoughts. And health anxiety. The only thing that has really helped is sertraline. As soon as I try to wean off of it the hours of thoughts and googling come straight back.

Thank you so much !

@Hillsmakeyoustrong (love the username!) So interesting to hear where you think your problem stemmed from. I think for me it's probably linked to my mum dying, I've felt so vulnerable since. So I'm forever planning for the worst to make sure I can prevent it as I fear that if something bad happens I absolutely will not cope, as I don't have her as my safety net.
When I had CBT I was diagnosed as having generalised anxiety and I basically struggle with not being in control. It's often health related but not always. I haven't heard of psychoanalytic therapy, I will look into it.
"Hypervigilant" really resonates, I've been feeling like this constantly since having DCs

@Justnotfeelingit I do have DH but unfortunately he is so far the other way with how laid back he is that I don't feel I can trust his judgement. He never worries about anything so when he says something is fine, it's not reassuring in any way. In fact I think my anxiety partly comes from feeling I need to compensate for his relaxed attitude and plan for every possible scenario to ensure we keep our children safe.
Meanwhile, our relationship is massively suffering currently as I am no fun to be around and he is so sick of hearing about something that according to him is "such a remote possibility and probably couldn't be prevented anyway so why waste energy on it"

@changingforthebetter3 so sorry you had to go through something like this. Can I ask how long after birth it happened? I'm 8 months PP so I wasn't sure if it wasn't too late to be triggered by birth/hormones, but I'm definitely never quite right in the first year. Hope it eases off a bit soon. I think I need to talk to the GP again.

@tinylittlecaterpillar yes I read so many success stories on here about Sertraline, I think eventually I will go down that route as I certainly can't keep living this way, I'm missing out on everything. I have the best DC yet I wake up every day feeling utter dread at what may be around the corner. I've not been present with them at all this week, just stuck in my brain .

@Mandatorymongoose yes I have been thinking I need to look back through my notes as it just really helped so much at the time. I need to unpack it all. Thank you for that link.

'The Happiness Trap' (ACT therapy) is a very good book for this, containing really simple self-help cognitive tools that can make you feel better very quickly.

Does your DH understand that part of the reason you cannot relax is you feel he is too relaxed.

I’m not suggesting you should put your issues onto him, but about a specific issue I really struggled until everyone else started worrying and then I didn’t need to anymore.

I’ve recently said similar to DH.

This is about something significant and factual. Him denying it is an issue makes me worry about it more because I don’t see him acknowledging it. Once he acknowledges it, then I know we both know it is a potential issue.

@lifecouldbeadream yes I explained it to him yesterday. He said that of course if it ever becomes a problem he will 100% be supportive and do what he can to fix it

Until then, to him its a waste of energy.
Whereas to me prevention is better than cure.

I don't know if deep down there might be an issue of me not finding him dependable enough. I sometimes look at friends' DHs and think "if he was my DH I wouldn't worry about this as I'd know he would take charge and fix it" (also thought the same about my sister in law the other day, she gives off such a "I've got this" vibe and can sort any problem out, I wished my DH was like her and I'd sleep peacefully at night)

DH has many qualities and works very hard, but I do feel like the main "fixer" and take on all the mental load.

Everything you say absolutely resonates with me. Even on the DH front! Mine is super laid back to the point that on one very turbulent flight (think screaming, drinks on ceiling, rugby players crying) DH just sat back and thought well if this is it, worrying about it won't fix it. I mean he didn't enjoy it but he was relaxed enough to feel annoyed that his drink got spilt 🙈. And yes, this has made me feel I can't trust his judgement and like I have to assess all these perceived risks on my own. The truth was and is that DH is too relaxed but that I was mentally unwell and excessive in my vigilance. One GP said to me "seek and ye shall find" and find I did. And they were all things that would have likely resolved on their own. Our bodies are in a constant state of flux and can develop temporary issues that would come and go unnoticed for most people!

One thing I learned is that psychoanalytic therapy (very good for deep rooted or childhood related trauma) is intense. The emotional and financial commitment is huge. I'm glad I did it before DC as the time element is also massive. The best thing I ever did was sertraline. Hands down. I was terrified of taking it and didn't for many years but after two weeks of trying it I was sleeping better and had significantly less anxiety. I was able to stay on the lowest dose as well. I was more mentally present for my family and found when I was calmer, you naturally work through those things that have caused issues.

Another great thing I found was keeping a dream diary. Dreams tell you so much about where you are at subconsciously and it is our subconscious which rules out thoughts and behaviours. PM me for more info on that if you want to.

I can't begin to tell you how I empathise and genuinely get where you are at. But the good news is that it's treatable. At least talk to your gp about sertraline. You don't have to take it if you don't want to but properly explore that option would be my advice.

And. I am very sorry to hear about your mum 💔. I am quite sure this would have been the beginning. My mum's anxiety was triggered by her father's unexpected death when she was 19. The anxiety was accumulative and became full blown in her early 20s.

@Hillsmakeyoustrong so many similarities here! The flight example is extreme, how I wish I was as relaxed as our DHs...

Not as extreme but just a few months ago DH had cold symptoms. We were planning to have vulnerable guests over at the weekend so I said he should test for Covid just in case. He told me "this is textbook exactly like every other cold I have had before, I can categorically promise you I do not have Covid". After enough nagging he tested "just to prove I was wrong". Yep, I was right.

He still questioned the result at this point and said it couldn't be covid as he just had mild cold symptoms. I mean, how can you pay so little attention over 2 years to not realise that's usually how Covid manifests?

So now when he says "I promise you it's fine" it really doesn't help me at all.

The GP prescribed me Sertraline 6 months ago, but I never picked up the prescription. I thought I'd wait for CBT and see. Of course having anxiety I am anxious about side effects, anxious that I won't have control of what it does to my brain, anxious that I'll be on it forever etc etc. But at some point I think I'll need to bite the bullet for a long term benefit.

@resuwen I have ordered the book

Oh my word. Does your DH have a long lost twin? How many times have I nagged DH about taking a covid test. It's exhausting. I absolutely adore him and truth be told he is very patient most of the time. His dad was a doctor and the whole family is incredibly blase about health matters and so I'm an oddity.

With the sertraline I was terrified of side effects (and you do get those for a week or two, swimmy head and upset tummy were mine and not nice) but so, so worth it. It changed my life. I started on 50mg tablets but broke them in half so just took 25mg per day for the first week. You are meant to take them in the morning but I took them in the evening so I slept through the side effects. I just wish I'd done it in my 20s and 30s tbh and enjoyed my life. Intrusive thoughts are merciless task masters

I don't know if anyone else here gets nasty instructive intrusive thoughts like I've had?

I had them once at age 9 then from age 16 onwards, almost daily!

Horrible & scary thoughts giving me instructions like "pick up that bottle and hit your friend with it".
Obviously I did not obey the thoughts, I would never harm anyone.
But if I was in a friends or family members home staying over, I would be fighting thoughts telling me to harm them all night and feel physically unwell with it.

I never told anyone until I met my latest psychiatrist.
He gave me a diagnosis of Schizoaffective disorder (bipolar type) as I also have had delusions, paranoia & hallucinations with a mood disorder.
So I was put on Aripiprazole, an anti psychotic which has been increased to 30mg a day.

Now I'm on 30mg Aripiprazole I rarely if ever get those intrusive thoughts. It's great.
So I confided everything about the thoughts to my psychiatrist and he was very helpful and reassuring.

@SommerTen so worry to hear you suffered so long with this but glad you are better now.
I did think intrusive thoughts referred to what you described so usually imagining hurting someone.
Mine aren't like these, just worries that get out of control so I wonder if they can still be defined as intrusive thoughts.

@Hillsmakeyoustrong that is good to know about the Sertraline. I also worry that I will look back in a few years and regret not being able to enjoy my life.

The last 2 weeks have been horrendous really and I'm pretty exhausted.

Bless you. Honestly I think you have to at least try it, you can stop taking it after a few weeks if it's not working for you.

As you know from your CBT, feelings and thoughts are just that, feelings and thoughts. Not facts. Your conscious mind knows that but the problem is that your conscious mind can only deal with 3 or 4 threads at any one time. The rest of the time your subconscious is at work - it's in charge of your imagination, your creativity, your emotions, your memories, your automatic thoughts and actions. Basically everything you're not thinking about at this precise moment.

Problem is, the subconscious can not distinguish between what's real and what's not. "What happens is I get an idea in my head" and your subconscious will react as if it's a real threat, just in case. You heartbeat increases, your breathing becomes rapid, you sweat and your digestion slows down. You consciously notice these changes which act as proof that there's actually something wrong. Bingo! The anxiety loop starts and it's a bastard to stop it.

Another way of looking at it is when you are imagining, you are pretending - that's what we call it when children do it. How many of the disasters that you've imagined have come to fruition? "They used to last a few days until I got tired of worrying and moved on or got distracted enough by life or replaced it with a new worry." That suggests that nothing has actually happened, other than in your mind.

This video is brilliant at showing how the brain can't differentiate between real and imaginary;

And this one tells you all you need to know about anxiety;

@Eyesopenwideawake I definitely found the CBT so helpful and when I was going through it with the therapist it was so easy to see that my thoughts are just thoughts, and not the reality.

But I struggle on my own. I follow the worksheets and unpack my fears and even though I realise they might not be as immediate of a threat as I originally felt, they are still a threat and it's making me really anxious, and I am spending every waking hour hatching a plan to try and prevent it from ever happening. I can't focus on anything else.

This week I genuinely considered homeschooling my children, never having people at my house and never going on holiday again just to mitigate against the huge threat I am perceiving in my head. Something that hadn't ever crossed my mind until last week.

I dont know if it makes sense, but I'm not sure where to go from here.

You're right, none of my previous fears have materialised. Unfortunately it's meant that I often think "if I worry about this enough it won't happen". With the CBT I can now identify that thinking pattern but old habits die hard.

Thanks for the link I'll give it a watch. I find this sort of resources really helpful.

It's so hard isn't it? I could literally be reading about myself and my own thoughts. When did you have CBT? I ask because I'm currently going through my second lot of CBT sessions. My first lot was about 7 years ago and worked brilliantly but I gave birth 4 months ago and it all came back with a vengeance. I am working with a higher intensity therapist this time and I already feel a million times better. Could you reach out again and say you are still struggling?

Also, have you made an effort to stop the googling? I know it's easier said than done but it is my worst trigger, and it just feeds the anxiety. I would often lose hours and hours to endless Google searches which would just lead me down a steep spiral! Every time I feel the urge to Google now, I tell myself it is the anxiety talking and make an effort to distract myself and do something completely different. I downloaded a game on my phone which helps because it's impossible to play it and Google at the same time! I do find the longer I go without googling, the easier it is to avoid.

I really hope it gets easier for you soon.

Thank you so much for responding. Our experiences sound so similar.

I had the CBT when my baby was 4 months old too, it was 6 months ago. I first had anxiety after my first was born, and it ramped up again after my second. I do have some hope that it's hormonal and circumstantial and once I stop BF and start working again it will ease up.

But yes I think I could benefit from more sessions and will talk to the GP. I actually reached out to the therapist this week who kindly talked me through things and got me out from the bottom of the anxiety pit so I'm on my way back up!

Googling is 100% my downfall. With this latest anxiety I'd put the children to bed and then spend 2 or 3 hours googling things every night. I tell myself that it's to find reassurance but of course it doesn't work as my anxious brain filters out the good and only holds on to the things that confirm my crazy theories. Or I just find out about more awful things that can happen and worry about those. My relationship is also suffering as I can only function enough to be a good mum in the day and it consumes all the rest of my time.

I love the idea of having something to do like a game whenever I feel the urge to Google. Also, how different is a "high intensity" therapist? That sounds interesting.