Medication-free depression?

[SoMuchKombucha]

I'm struggling quite a lot with moderate depression (with some very dark days in the mix). I have other mental health issues, too (anxiety and complex trauma, for example), but the depression seems to be what's sucking the life out of me most these days. I've had "all" the meds (not literally all, but enough), and getting off them has been a nightmare, and going back on is not an option I will ever entertain (some of the side effects haven't ever even gone away, I'm not willing to risk more).

I feel like I'm already trying so hard. It sometimes feels like my whole life is nothing but endless mental health maintenance! Currently I try to manage things by:

• Having a set routine and mostly forcing myself to stick to it.


• Eating well and in a healthy way.


• Exercising six days a week, including daily time outside in nature.


• Trying my best to sleep well, but I have chronic insomnia, and sleep hygiene and sleep restriction haven't helped me very much, so it's a hit and miss.


• Having talking therapy.


• Forcing myself to go out to do a hobby every week with people, even though I really don't enjoy it.


• Trying to do some very basic mindfulness, although honestly I hate it.

But am I missing something else that anyone could throw in as a suggestion to try?

I feel like I'm having to hide how bad I feel from my GP, therapist, DH and other people because everyone will just tell me to take medications. And when I don't want to take them, the attitude is often a shrug and a "well, I guess you'll just have to suffer then - upto you!" - even though these are the same people who were around when I've been on all the various meds, and was depressed despite them, with added side effects. I do understand that no one likes a moaner, but it gets hard to hide and try to pretend. Sorry if this comes across as moaning! It just gets tiring to constantly try to force myself to do things I should somehow enjoy, while my brain is just moaning at me about how much it wants to die.

Sorry if you've answered this already and I missed it, but have you tried volunteering? I haven't suffered depression at all but I know that when I was stressed and thought I had too much on my mind, forcing myself out to that school to work with those kids who really needed my help always gave me a real sense of contentment afterwards.

OP I think you're doing a great job of managing to keep up with all the things you are!

I would add some body related things, if possible. Massage - even foot or hand massage if full body is too confronting (complex trauma if could be). They will get oxytocin flowing which also feels good. And I've found that being touched - gently and respectfully - can bridge the gap I feel when I'm feeling really bad and can't/don't want to talk.

Cranial sacral therapy (works on head) and shiatsu (you remain clothed, so good if massage is too confronting) can also be helpful.

None of them are cures.

I also find that when the nights are bad that I can often sleep on the sofa in the afternoon and have a deep sleep - without dreams! And sometimes when nights have been bad I've found that going to the sofa can make a big difference in whether I have a chance of sleeping again or not.

The thing with complex PTSD is that you're basically wired to be alert all the time and that alone is exhausting. Any sleep you can get is a good thing, unless it stops you sleeping at night (ie a nap is fine but sleeping all afternoon not).

Floatation (they have it in small rooms these days with lights, not the old fashioned tanks) can also be incredible at providing deep rest. Take a small flannel in with you and hang it on the door handle in case you want to touch your face - avoids salt in your eyes!

And pay attention to how much water you're drinking. I recently read (can't verify it!) that if you're even two glasses of water under hydrated that it can increase the level of cortisol in your body. On the off chance that's true, I've paid more attention to keeping hydrated and have to say that I feel better in my body when I've had enough to drink.

Final thing is that I find life with depression is incredibly boring! So sometimes I think of doing something new like changing my route or going somewhere I haven't been before (can be a park or a shop, I'm not talking about diving in Mexico!). And it can just change the monotony. One thing about trauma and depression can be a dulling of curiosity, so gently stimulating it can help getting it going too.

More finally (!) I've also found that studying helps keep my brain from feeling like it's turned to mush. Maybe there are MOOCs related to something you've an interest in?

None of these things - seriously, none - are miracles and unfortunately some do rely on having disposable income which we often don't have. But they have all helped me through really long, very dark times.

You mentioned complex trauma in your opening post. Has this ever been treated with therapy? If not, all the suggestions mentioned to date won't touch the sides. Why? Because there's a part of your mind which is trying to figure out what happened and how to fix it - rather like a hamster on an eternal wheel. Very often there's no rational answer to the questions, bad things can happen without reason, or the people who could supply the answers are no longer in your life. But still the mind refuses to leave it alone. Does this make any sense in your situation?

Eyeswideopenawake
Actually all my suggestions relate to calming the sympathetic nervous system and supporting the parasympathetic nervous system which is something that does help alleviate the symptoms of - not solve (if it ever can be) - complex trauma.

@daretodenim - Yup, I know and they are all good (I love floatation tanks) but they aren't going to deal with the underlying issue.

Good for you. Medication is definitely not for everyone. There’s a really old book - called ‘Feel the Fear - and Do it Anyway’ which when read slowly and then reflected on and then do the exercise that can really help.
This strange attitude that life is doomed to be hopeless and meds are the only way to happiness — is quite tragic never mind erroneous.

Already you’re getting in touch with your instinct of going a way that’s right for you. A really good sign.

There’s so much to depression. Hormones, Diet, Lifestyle - a first step is taking a decision - which is what you’ve done. Small steps. A good support is as another mentioned in this thread the Johann Harri book Lost Connections. All the best.

You are doing amazingly OP - a huge bunch of for you to celebrate that you're doing everything you can to look after yourself.

As well as the things on your list, things I've found helpful are:

• finding things that are positive experiences for my five senses, and trying to incorporate some or all of them each day, even if only for a few minutes. Eg I like the smell of certain aromatherapy candles and hand creams so I try to light one / use one regularly. I like the silky feeling of bathwater that has bath salts in it, so I try to have a salty bath a couple of times a week, and also give myself a foot massage at the same time. There are some particular pieces of classical music that seem to resonate with me so I try to listen to one every few days. I like impressionist painting so I try to look at Monet pictures online or in a book sometimes. I try to eat relatively well but also prioritise including foods I actually enjoy eating, eg cheeses and olives and chocolate. Small sensory pleasures. I don't always remember to include them in my day but I find it beneficial if I do.

• I also find benefit in doing small things that will hopefully provide some joy for others. Interaction with others can be too difficult often, but I feel a sense of achievement if I send someone a birthday card on time, or - if I have spare money - order someone a book or pair of socks or something that I think they might like. Planning those things can take me out of my own head-blur in a good way.

Like a PP I also find shiatsu really useful. And sometimes jigsaw puzzles, and Agatha Christie novels

@PortMac - We have cats and they are a great comfort. I'm glad to hear you find help in your faith. I don't really have one myself.

@Nandocushion - I have done volunteering in the past, and you're right it was great. I met some very nice people, and was lucky to do something that also felt meaningful. I've actually spent a little while here thinking why I haven't done more, and what specifically I miss about it. To the first point, I've let my anxiety and inertia stop me from seeking opportunities, and the obvious local opportunities haven't sounded like something I'd want to do. The second, though, I think I most miss feeling useful in general.

@daretodenim - Thanks for the thorough answer! Some of the points really feel relevant. Eg. I think I really am quite starved for touch for various reasons. I've had massage in the past, but in a very utilitarian way to try to solve some physical problem. I'm going to think if I could try out something. (The floatation sounds weirdly scary for some reason.) And thanks for the tip about hydration, I'd not heard of that re. cortisol.

You're definitely right about depression being boring. (Also annoying. It's like having to constantly hang out with a very negative person who doesn't like anything, doesn't want anything, and will moan about everything, except it's in your own head.) I read your answer before heading out this morning, and walked a different route I usually do, and it was a nice, if small, change. I'm even in a rut with the foods I eat, so I'm going to try having something different for dinner.

Yes, of course no miracles. I think I no longer really even look at this as an illness that might or might not get cured one day (not going to argue for or against that for depression in general). It feels more like "these are the challenges and struggles that I have, for various reasons, and I need to manage and get on with them the best I can". Every little thing that helps is a plus.

@Eyesopenwideawake - Yes, plenty of therapy. I've been lucky to access it both from the NHS and privately at different times of my life.

@FionaBMCC - Thanks, and thanks for the book recommendation. The title appeals and scares my anxious side!

I really had a very low mood during a sleepless night last night, which is probably why I decided to post this morning. Right now, after being out, eating, messaging with a friend (about boring normal stuff, not mental health), and generally getting on with my day, things don't look quite as dark, for the moment. Plodding on, I suppose. Big thanks to everyone who's given me things to think on.

@Salutina - I love your ideas, too, thanks! The five senses thing reminds me of grounding techniques that I've learnt to use for moments of distress, but I've not thought about intentionally incorporating stuff like that for the sake of seeking enjoyment in everyday life, even though it sounds obvious when you say it.

I can also relate to the idea of doing something for the sake of others. I think maybe I fall into the trap of only thinking about big things, which feel overwhelming, and then feeling like there's nothing I can do.

OP I think what you've said here is really insightful actually:

Yes, of course no miracles. I think I no longer really even look at this as an illness that might or might not get cured one day (not going to argue for or against that for depression in general). It feels more like "these are the challenges and struggles that I have, for various reasons, and I need to manage and get on with them the best I can". Every little thing that helps is a plus.

I came across a proverb type thing the other day, something like 'there are no obstacles in your path. The obstacles are your path'. That really made useful sense to me as a sort of positive practical mindset to aim for, and I think that's essentially what you're saying too.

Hi OP,

I have a suggestion that worked incredibly well for me, maybe the most important thing that helped me out of severe depression apart from meds.

It is:
Do something that you have never done before every single day and make a note of it and how it makes you feel. Can be a small thing, can be a brief note but you need to do both.

I think it works because doing something entirely new fires different neural pathways in the brain and might trigger some of the seratonin or dopamine or oxytocin we are lacking when we get depressed.
Making a note of it helps to reinforce that you did it, and to evaluate what you enjoy in life, what you don't, what you might want more of.

When i was at my lowest, I started with really easy things like choose a different scent of bath gel from usual, or go to a new cafe (though that actually felt so hard) or order a different coffee from the one you always order. Walk down a street you've never walked down. Take a new route to or from work or the school run. Your note keeping is mainly observant but can also be judgement e.g. Tried Orange blossom bath oil today. It was OK. Honestly I don't care what bath oil I use right now. Or: Walked down Orchard Road today on way back from school. Bumped into J. Some flowers in bloom smelled like bubblegum - wonder what they were.

As you get used to it, gently push yourself to raise the stakes. Instead of going to the same old hobby, try a different fitness class each week until you find one you like. No need ot feel shy or pressure to make friends or worry about being judged as you probably won't be there again. And if you are, it's because it made you feel good. As a result of this I discovered I hate Zumba, love weight training and kayaking and prefer one style of yoga to another.

None of this sounds life changing but it is. At first I felt nothing. Absolutely dead emotionally as I made my notes. But after a while I noticed some enthusiasm creeping in. From 'don't care what soap I wash with' to excitement at going to spot a rare animal in the wild and finding it, or pride in returning something to a very scary shopkeeper. Bit by bit you re-engage with the world and with yourself, your skills and interests. It rehumanises you, where depression feels like it dehumanises you and disengages you from the world.

Sorry - mammoth essay. I have half an idea of writing a book or a long blog post about this. Think I did it here!

That's amazing @goldfinchonthelawn Thank you so much for sharing! I'm going to try to incorporate something like that. I have some other health things that mean a daily change might be too much but I think maybe even once a week to start with could be a really great thing to do.

@goldfinchonthelawn - I read the first few sentences and immediately thought there's no way I could do that, and how could I ever even think of new things for every day! But reading how you first started, it probably is something I actually could start, too, even if very cautiously. Thanks so much, it sounds like it's got you into some very interesting things. (Which honestly right now feel too much to contemplate, so I'll focus on the starting part.)

I did it because I was trying absolutely anything and everything to cure a depression that had lasted ten bloody years. It ruined my career, my social life, my body. One day I just thought I wouldn't try to do anything in life until I had beaten it. So I spent six months walking and doing yoga and meditation and taking every supplement under the sun and reading everything I could about depression. Can't remember where I heard this one, but gave it a go and noticed within a couple of weeks that it, more than anything else, made me feel brighter and more energised and positive about the day that had just gone and the day ahead.

It actually had a profound effect on my life and I ended up getting some really interesting work as a direct result of it. I have never had a return of severe depression since I did this, and I was depressed on and off but mainly on from age about 15 to about 55! As soon as I get the first signs of depression I do this and they lift within two of three days. I have no scientific background but I believe it reboots the neural pathways that have got stuck. A neurologist friend said this was possible.

I’m working hard on this too. It’s been terrifying but I’ve come off medication for a while now. I’ve dealt with most of my anxiety which is what I felt meds really helped for and more and more I was feeling the side effects weren’t worth it. Huge weight gain for one and lethargy for another.

I really relate to how hard a routine can be, but then at the same time I know not having one is worse and so it feels like a real Catch 22. I think it does more good for me overall and I try to think about how I wouldn’t want to do anything, it’s not really about the items of the routine. Good on you for sticking at it.

@@goldfinchonthelawn - I'm so pleased it's had such a great impact on your life.

It goes well with what another poster said about depression being so boring. It saps you of energy, motivation, curiosity and interest towards the world. I need a routine to keep going (and predictability to keep my stress levels at least somewhat tolerable), but if you have nothing but a routine, it can feel like you're just stuck inside it, on autopilot.

I can see how I could incorporate some of the other things people have mentioned with this one. Eg. if stuck on an idea of a new thing, try something that involves some stimulation or small pleasure for the senses. Or to involve learning about something totally new (even if it's just a youtube video or a wikipedia rabbit hole). I'm very brain foggy and my focus is horrible, and my memory isn't the best, but a small start seems doable.

There's a small new shop near me that I walk past most days. They seem to sell soaps, bath products, lotions and things of that sort. I've almost called in many times, to at least have a look, but always just walk past. I'm going to try to make a point of actually walking in today, even if I won't want to buy anything. I'm not feeling any enthusiasm, but I do like a nice soap sometimes.

@aletterfromseneca - I think it's really positive to be able to weigh the pros and cons and benefits vs harms of medication for yourself, which it sounds like you've done. As to routine, I found that when I really struggled with doing anything, what helped me was to have several very small things on my daily to do list. That way I'd get to tick off most boxes most days, and feel like I'm at least doing something, rather than try anything too complicated and feel like a failure. Good luck!

Just going to look around that shop if you've not done it before is the new thing. New sensory experience, new action instead of inaction (being curious but walking past). Next time you might buy something.

I totally agree that lots of the other suggestions could be your new thing. But please do record them in a little notebook or file. I created a private blog, but you could just have a word doc. Just the date, what you did and any details you want to add, including how it made you feel (fine to say 'I felt nothing much.' The point is, you look back and see in the feelings remarks that a shift occurs and you start to re-engage with life and take bigger risks and become more curious. But for now, a new podcast or radio station or drink is fine. I remember feeling completely adventurous because I tried a beetroot latte! It was actually quite nice. I'd had a few since.

If you long for contact could some of the alternative medicines help ? I had an extremely stressful period and was contemplating therapy but found it out of reach financially, I had reiki and it was really lovely. I hate massage but found reiki really healing.

As for lifting mood I recommend micro dosing mushrooms, not for everyone but you never know, if you've tried everything...

I did go inside to have a look. As a shop it was underwhelming, but as an experience it was fine. I was a bit pleased with myself for managing to do normal smalltalk with the owner. Bought something small, too, and I did add a note about it in my journal. I haven't thought of anything for today yet, but I'm sure there's something.

@Bigpaintinglittlepainting - I must admit I'd have no idea where to get mushrooms to microdose on, and probably not enough motivation to find out. Any illegal element would make me very anxious. I guess if I'm sick of messing with my brain with prescription drugs, messing with them with the other kinds might not really be better? (I do hear very good things about psilocybin, but the same could be said for the meds.)

I used to work with someone who has severe depressive episodes to the point of hospitalisation. I still follow her on FB, and a few weeks ago she posted about repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation (rTMS). She said it had saved her life and she had fought, in the end successfully, to get it on the NHS having had it via the German health service.

I have read a little bit about it since and it does sound hopeful as a potential treatment. I have no idea im afraid whether it would even potentially be suitable for you or whether the struggle to get it would be worth it. But I raise it in case it's something new to you.

@PermanentTemporary - That's interesting. I have heard of it, but I'm under the impression it's only used in very severe depression, where all the doctors involved feel they've excluded all other options, too. I'm sort of semi-functioning in my day to day life (not able to work or anything, but eating, washing, getting dressed, able to have a routine), not actively suicidal, and I'm not under secondary services these days - and don't want to be, really, even if I was more unwell. The trust I once had is gone, so I wouldn't trust them to do anything to my brain at this point.

Yes that's very true, on all of your points.

I listen to a podcast about therapy and one of the things that has stuck out among all the things that I have picked up is that, issues that can be so prevalent in our lives don't necessarily ever get healed or solved. I have learned to live as I am, that's not perfect or solved but I'm bumbling along and through a therapists eyes that is a success. I am functioning and can keep going.

Sorry it's not easy for me to write ! I'm dyslexic and often I can speak more fluently about this than write ! I hope that you can see that you have tried many treatments, that don't work for you and you can keep going forward, open to new things but just keep trucking on and that in itself is a very positive thing to do.