Sister getting sectioned???

[EdaYildiz]

To cut the longest story very short.. my sister is suffering from mental health issues - she is constantly angry, screaming at the walls and she thinks all my family member (aunts, uncles, cousins etc) have ruined her life and is screaming at "them" during an episode.

(When I say "them" I mean they are not actually there but they are who she is referring to)

My parents are elderly and will not voluntarily admit her for an assessment as requested many times by the EIS because they think she will be "kept in cage and drugged up" however I have receive an email that next week, her case worker will be attending our house with 2 x doctors and of course the police for a mental health act assessment - my parents don't know about this at all.

I am guilt ridden that I know and the burden of knowing is killing me - I was told as a heads up to decide if I wish to be present or not on the day but asked not to tell my parents as previously my dad has removed my sister from house during a scheduled appointment for an hospital admission.

I am scared my sister will be taken away and I'm scared my dad will cause a big fuss on the day, I'm worried my mum will be distressed (she will have an interpreter as English is not her first language). Im terrified and I just don't know what to do!!!

Being sectioned was the best thing that could have happened to my DSis. Yes it's hard, but hopefully it will get easier for all of you

I’m not surprised by your parents reaction, nobody wants to see their child being taken away like this, but hopefully your sister will get the help she obviously needs. My Mum was sectioned several times due to depression, the first time when I was 5 years old, it was hard on us as a family, but we knew she would come home after a hospital stay and be better. I hope your parents can begin to think that she needs help. I don’t think there is anything a solicitor can do. Stay strong, you’ve all got a long way to go in her recovery, but you know that what’s happened is the best thing as you couldn’t continue with things as they were.

Iirc the only think poa can refuse is ect

Hi OP, my brother (high functioning, corporate lawyer, no history of mental health issues) had a catastrophic mental breakdown following the death of our father last summer. In total, he has spent six months on different psychiatric wards, and has been on different section orders. I actually reported him to the British Transport Police when he arrived at my mum’s house battered and bloody and admitted he’d tried to access railway lines and a train had had to do an emergency stop to avoid hitting him. I felt massive guilt as it is my dirty little secret but I do think my actions saved his life - and spared an innocent train driver from a future life of trauma. The community mental health support was woeful but within an hour of me making my report, two social workers came to my mum’s house (where my brother was staying) to take him to hospital.

Once in hospital, as a voluntary patient, things were very turbulent (he was once handcuffed by a passing police officer for his own safety and transported back to hospital) and then placed on a Section 2. At one point, he was about to be assessed for a Section 3 (detained under the Mental Health Act for up to six months). Miraculously, he managed to pull back from the brink, avoided the Section 3 and is now back in his own home and is resuming his career on a phased return.

Honestly, I could actually sleep when my brother was in hospital as I knew he would be supervised and would not be able to make any more attempts on his life (the railway incident wasn’t the first). More importantly, my elderly mum, who is frail and housebound, had some respite from his manic episodes and the perpetual worry of two police officers knocking on her door to deliver the worst possible news no parent ever wants to hear.

Your post really resonated for me; the guilt is profound. But hopefully you will have the relief of knowing your sister is safe and will now have access to the right support. Please don’t forget to look after yourself; the secondary trauma is very real. I hope there is a good family liaison support on your sister’s unit?

So it's the morning after the day before - work have been so kind to give me the day off but I'm back online today (as I WFH on a perm basis) because I really need the distraction. I almost feel so guilty for saying this but not hearing my sister scream/shout for the first time in five years has been the 'nice'.

I did wake up today hearing my dad on the phone speaking to the hospital asking how she spent the night and that he wants her discharged because she was "removed unlawfully" and my mum kept referring to my sister in the past tense like she was never coming back which shows that they just don't understand nor do they want to understand that this was all to help her.

@SmaugMum thank you for sharing your story, you have said things which I can certainly relate to as I also feel very guilty that I knew my sister would be sectioned but was told to keep this to myself (not sure if I mentioned it earlier but there was previously a chance for my sister to be admitted voluntarily but my sister take her out so when they came, nobody was home) and the fact I was able to sleep better at night knowing my sister was getting help!

You all have been so wonderful with the experiences and advise you have provided me, I just hope my parents can just trust this and let her get the help without constantly thinking they've been wronged.

If one of your parents is her nearest relative (and that’s a legal term) they cannot just keep this from whomever it is. There will be 2 doctors and an AMHP (they are the ones who get the final say in whether to section if not and what section will be used) A nearest relative can oppose a section and apply for it to be reversed. AMHS can make an application to court to remove a nearest relative’s ability to do this, but its quite rare.

Here’s more information on the Nearest Relative

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/legal-rights/nearest-relative/about-the-nearest-relative/

Sorry op - I missed your update.

Is your father the NR - because if he is he does have the power to potentially have her detention reversed

@Oldtiredfedup I believe he would be, does it need to be in writing?

My dad will not stop at anything and he will be going to the court and applying to have it reversed, I just really hope they don't.

The reason my parents are so opposed is because firstly my mum did not and her in own words "like the look of the hospital" (they have previously visited to have a look around as part of the voluntary admission) and secondly because it's not close enough to home.

The hospital itself is not miles away, it's around 45 minutes in the car and they have a whole ward dedicated to Deaf patients and staff who use British Sign Language which is not offered at any hospitals local to us and my parents just won't accept that.

Your sister is definitely in the right place.

Your parents needed this wake up call as they've been very obstructive.

The medical team will be more than grateful and relieved that you are on their side in getting your sister the much needed help she needs.

Your parents behaviour especially your dads is very concerning. Lots of red flags which may uncover some unpleasant truths. Let's hope not.

Does it need to be in writing that he’s the NR? If he qualifies as the NR as per the law, then he is the NR. If I remember correctly he will have been identified as so in the section paperwork. The AMHP who completed the section should be in contact with whomever your sister’s NR is. A NR can be displaced via an application to court by the AMHP who sectioned the patient, and someone else can be appointed as the nearest relative if that application for displacement is successful.

Right now you’d sister is on a section 2, which is admission for assessment and lasts up to 28 days iirc. After that if it’s believed your sister needs treatment an application for a section 3 must be made, which is then reviewed on a regular basis.

It might be worth trying to contact the AMHP who carried out the section and express your concerns about your father (and to establish who the NR is so you know)

@Oldtiredfedup Ok make sense - I have kept the AMHP updated about my sister for the past couple of months and send her videos of her episodes as she had them because my dad sugarcoats all this during scheduled visits so I will speak to her, thankfully she has kept my contact with her P&C as my dad would probably disown me if he found out the part I played in this - which I am not sorry about.

A little background, our family house was repossessed in September 2012 - my dad thought someone was using his identity and fraudulently taken out a second mortgage in his name (no proof of this) and stopped paying it so the bank took the house back, it effected my sister the most hence her condition today. My dad thinks that getting the house back will make her all better but I think he's delusional!

Gosh, sounds like your father isn’t doing to well mentally himself. I’m sorry you’re going through all of this. Well done for standing by your convictions.

They haven't taken her unlawfully. The exact opposite. The AMHP has had a section 135 (1) warrant approved to remove her and this is not done unless it needs to be!

Your father is clearly stressed but there needs to be some way that he can be educated about this because down the line should she come home but then need to be recalled as ill again and he was obstructive to this he can get himself into trouble.

Sorry for the situation you have all been living with, I hope she gets the help she needs as an inpatient OP.

I had a close relative with diagnosed Bipolar disorder which had got on top of them after many years.

The MH assessment was done by two psychiatrists and a mental health social worker that had been asked to come by family. (My relative really was struggling i.e. would mess themselves, lived silently, did not really communicate. Needed assistance with bathing. Tried to put on soiled underwear after letting it dry off over night.)

As a result of the assessment, they went to a psychiatric hospital as a voluntary patient, driven there by relatives. It was a nice, modern, good hospital. He was treated with kindness and dignity. Our concern was that they could discharge themselves as they were a voluntary patient. We relied on them just not having the where with all to do it. They knew they weren't well and accepted help.

By coincidence, they died of natural causes in a General Hospital when age and co-morbidity caught up with them.

So an update for you all...

Since being section last Wednesday, my dad has finally managed to get my sister discharged as her nearest relative - he also threw in the fact his has Power of Attorney over her.

At the hospital she was admitted, they said they don't have the facility to help as she is deaf, the hospital they want her transferred to specialises in deaf patients with mental health issues and also has staff who are trained in British Sign Language.

I do feel very sad to see her back at home, not because she is at home but because I genuinely wanted her to get help!!! I feel like my dad will continue to ruin her life...

Thanks. I was wondering how things were.

If she was sectioned for 28 days, how did your Dad get her discharged as her nearest relative ? Sorry, I don't understand.

He would have had to have proof that he has POA for her health and wellbeing. I didn't think that having POA meant you could over rule the medical and/or the legal profession.

I'm glad your Dad found the confidence in his English and knowing who to talk to and what to say.

It just seems to suit him not to have her getting the professional help she needs.

Can you move?

@ToffeeNotCoffee I really do not know how he managed to do it, my dad came to England to work and earn money to send back to his parents - he never went to school in England BUT he reads up a lot on everything and anything, especially Law - he knows so much and you would think he is in the Legal profession with just how much he knows, it's almost like Suits (although he never offers anyone legal advice).

I did see some paperwork laying around where my dad wrote a letter to the hospital to give them his intention to discharge her giving them 72 hours notice - I think the reason they had to release her was because they were unable to do anything for her at the hospital she was at hence why they wanted to move her into a hospital for the deaf, which I don't understand why they did not originally take her there in the first place.

The AMHP and doctor are coming over tomorrow to speak to my parents again and try and convince them to voluntary admit her into the hospital (which has a ward for the deaf) so they can try to help her.

Honestly, I just hope that my dad doesn't drive them so crazy that they just give up on her!

@Theunamedcat I wish!!! I would take my sister and run away with her if I could just to get her the help she deserves!

I am so sorry to hear your update. I really don't have any advice - but I hope your sister can get the help she needs

Do you mind me asking how old your sister is OP?

@Londondreams1 my sister is in her late 30's

Oh , And you also live there with her? Just trying to build a picture

@Londondreams1 yes, my sister and I live with our parents :)

I know this may be slightly off topic but does anybody know if there is anything I can put in place so if there ever comes a day where I lack capacity to make a decision that would prevent my dad doing so on my behalf?

I strongly don't believe my dad has any of his children's best interest at heart and I would like it in writing that he is not allowed to make any decisions for me.

Thank you, so you’re both in your (possibly late) thirties and live together. Quite a stressful environment all round I should imagine.

I’m a firm advocater, you see, of people with mental health who, for example, are statistically more likely to be the victim of violence and abuse than the perpetrator and are more vulnerable to such things. Which is completely different to public perception.

Doesn’t the old ‘danger to herself and others’ still hold true or are things different now? In the past you couldn’t section anyone against their will unless they presented one of these two dangers.

Can you contact her GP and tell them the situation is worse ? You could email them.