Why do umsnetters seem to think that ads are the answer to everything??

[mykidsmum]

I have lurked on alot of feeling low threads however I feel that alot of people feel low for reasons other than those needing antidepressants.What I find strange is that when anyone suggests anything going wrong in their life everyone jumps on the whole anti depressant bandwagon regardless of whether of these would be of benefit or not. It seems to me that there is alot of evidence on here to suggest they haven't helped people yet it is frequently asked have you changed your ad's?? With the view that a change could make all the difference, maybe it is not ad's that will help but some form of thorough counselling. AD's clearly have their place and have helped many like myself but I get the impression that there are alot who champion their cause without looking into the situation in its own right and looking at the non medicalised route. Discuss!! (not meaning to be controversial but can't believ how many experts there are)

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree Twiglett. No bad feelings and no flouncing. Just a bit of 'healthy' debate as it is good for the circulation.

I don't tend to read this topic area and I have been very lucky and have never suffred from depression. However, I do know a fair bit about how ads work, and how parts of the brain work.

Information is passed between nerve cells by chemicals called neurotransmitters. There is some evidence to show that if levels of these neurotransmitters are too low people have symptoms, like depression. This is a chemical problem, a real physical difference between the 'depressed' brain and the 'normal' (oh how I hate that word) brain.

Now, no-one knows why these changes happen. We don't even know if that are the cause or the effect of the depression, but we do know that these levels can be re-balenced by ads. They are not perfect but they are something. If the levels get better the person can feel better and do more things, like councelling, for them selves. This in turn may help to get the neurotransmitter levels back to normal.

To my mind ads are rather like giving someone with a broken leg plaster and a ctutch. Only time will cure the leg, with physio at the end, but that can't happen unless the plaster in there and you give them the help they need to get around. Ads help people see what is possible. The cure may well have to come from within, but that may be impossible for some people without the help of the ad.

Hmb- what sense!!!!

great post hmb.

glad miam and twiglett are ok now

Just popping in to say I was on a low dose of ADs for over a year and they changed my life. I suppose it could depend on what causes your depression. Mine was definitely a chemical imbalance possibly caused by pregnancy? If my problems were caused by major trauma etc.. I would say I'd have needed counselling as well as ADs. I now take St Johns and it seems to be working so far.

I can't answer for anyone else, and don't want to upset all you regular posters on the Feeling Low thread as you have been so kind to me, but, speaking pesonally, I wouldn't use AD's, anyway not for any depression I have ever experienced yet. I do think I need to improve my life and take charge of the situations that make me feel depressed. I also think that if we all had more friends, either RL or MN, and shared together more, many of us would start to turn our lives around. It is a cliche, but I sometimes feel there isn't enough love left in the world, not between strangers and acquaintances anyway. I know counselling is of enormous benefit to many people, and I do not decry it at all, but it seems to me that the prevalence of counselling these days is making up for the loss of neighbourliness, caring, consideration and respect that society used to have.
In advance I wish to say, no offence intended by any of my comments.

FWIW, I really am sorry I started this thread and caused people offence it was certainly not my intention to upset anyone. I don't think of depression as something trivial it is very real and as a sufferer myself I have great sympathy for all those who are having a hard time. I am quite offended at the agressive way in which I have been attacked for raising points which i feel are worthy of discussion, and IMHO are not discussed enough. As a past user of ad's I was given no option for other solutions to my problem, no counselling, no support groups, just tablets, which did help. However it came clear to me last night (when I posted) that despite being off the Ad's for two years my problems still remain because they have not been dealt with. This is my point, how can we really know from others postings if ad's are the best way to resolve their situation, surely this would have to be looked at in alot more depth than can possibly take place on a public forum. I am not trying to belittle peoples advice, ther are alot who have obviously been of great help to others and long may that continue. I have worked quite comprehesively in Mental heath Services and am very aware of many of the drugs which are discussed, I have also seen many of their downsides and the effect they can have on people (no two people are the same as far as ad's are concerned), it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable to see them talked about so freely. That is my opinion I'm not saying they shouldn't be discussed, but i see them as potentially very dangerous and feel they should be given that respect.I do not feel that alternatives are discussed in much detail, maybe as people have no experience and that makes me sad that ad's should generally be a last resort once other methods have been tried, not the first port of call. And yes I do blame the system for this, having worked in it I am well aware of the shortfalls. I hope I have explained myself and once again i apologise to all those who are offended, it is not in my nature to upset people and genuinely feel bad that I have. Love and peace xxxx

I'm with you mykidsmum if it is any consolation to you, as I hope my post implied.

Thanks I really am not a controversial person, therefore to be attacked personally is quite upsetting!! never mind will put it down to experience and be more careful in futureXXXXX

I think I'm about to get shot down in flames here, but what is actually wrong with 'feeling low'? Where is the rulebook that says we have to feel happy and content all the time? 'Feeling low' is surely inextricably linked to 'feeling good.' How can you feel the latter without having first experienced the former? Surely, mild ( or even moderate) depression is often a normal and natural reaction to life's stresses and events. Why do we always feel we've got to block these natural feelings and emotions? Wouldn't it be better to experience them and learn how to deal with them from within ourselves?

I think that while it is quite normal to 'feel low', depression is quite another issue. It is rather like comparing a sprained ankle and a broken ankle.

I can feel low and 'shake myself out of it'. People with depression cannot. It is as simple as that. The probelm occurs I think because we used the word depressed when we are feeling a bit sad. True depression is quite a different thing.

I spent three and a half years trying to learn how to cope with the feelings and emotions of depression and trying to learn how to cope with them myself and ended up trying to kill myself. That's nice and healthy, isn't it? "Feeling low" and "clinical depression" are two different things, and while there's nothing wrong with "feeling low" when it's all part of life's ups and downs, clinical depression is a whole different ball game.

Either way, what's wrong with having threads to support people through the bad times, whether they're just feeling a bit glum or whether they are clinically depressed? These threads are the only support network that some of the posters here have.

Mykidsmum - I don't have time to read through all these posts. However a gp will only prescribe ad's if he feels the patient need them. It is not as if you can go in the shop and buy them over the counter. Why try and make people who use ad's feel bad when they already feel bad enough. Before the summer I had anxiety based depression and really could not have made if through the past few months without the ad's although I agree they are not the answer they just help.

It is not my intention in any way shape or form to make those who use ad's feel bad about it, and you have mienterpretated (spelling) my posts if this is what you think.

Gosh, I didn't mean that we shouldn't seek help and support from friends, family (or MN, for that matter). I think I've probably posted on another thread sonewhere that I wish that MN had been around years ago when my children were young. I think MN is great, a wonderful source of support and help. So sorry if I didn't give that impression. I was only meaning that often when people feel down, their first thought is to go to th GP to 'fix' it with pills of some kind. Well, some things can't be 'fixed' can they? Very often depression has a definite cause, such as bereavement, for example, or other life changes.

blossomhill, unfortunately I think you are wrong about GP's. I know two people who were prescribed AD's when what they really needed (in their opinions not just mine) was counselling and for somebody to help them to resolve the underlying problems causing their depressive feelings. Some (not all) GP's do just hand out AD's as they do not have the time/inclination to really solve the patients problems

And I don't think they are always the answer. As hmb said, they can be useful to break the chemical rut that our brains can get into, but there is some evidence to show that depressed serotonin levels may not be the cause of depression, but an effect, and that aftertime on ad's, the body of a deprerssed person simply adjusts to the artificial serotonin and produces even less of teh natural stuff, leading to teh necessity of increased dosages.

I think that what posters on mumsnet do is to suggest a variety of avenues, whether it is in response to somebody needing advice about behaviour, food, derpression - whatever.

So when somebody is feeling down and suggests that they are suicidal I dont think it is jumping on the antidepressant bandwagon to suggest they see their doctor for anti-depressents. It is then up to the poster to describe how they are feeling to the doctor and up to the doctor who has training to decide whether they need a prescription.

I think in most cases counselling is better - but on the NHS where counselling hard to come by I think drugs are prescribed to help people cope.

At the end of the day I think that there are two issues. One issue is regarding taking antidepressants and one is whether it is ok for mumsnetters to suggest taking them to posters.

I disagree with the way the that the NHS dish out most drugs. But think that when people give advice on this website they can put the advice they think appropriate whether it is what other people agree with or not. It will get to the stage soon when we will have to put disclaimers on the bottom of posts just incase somebody disagrees!!!

Interesting topic to bring up though.

Message withdrawn

I was diagnosed with pnd after ds2 3 years ago but staunchly refused ads and did recover with extensive counselling and cbt, however after dd2 16 weeks ago I became very ill and delevloped panic disorder.I was prescribed ads and referred to a cpn but because I felt so ill and frightened i took the ads( cipralex) and had a massive allergic reaction to them.Although I have started to see a cpn and have been referred to various therapy groups inc anxiety management, I wa still so poorly and not sleeping that it was suggested that I try a different ad, which I have done and so far after a week have had no nasty side effects.I would like to say though that if anyone is prescribed ads it should always be in conjunction with counselling, ads only help the symptons not the cause which still has to be addressed otherwise as soon as you stop taking the ads the depression will return.I have worked in the mental health sector so find it strange being on the other side of the fence, I have again been referred for cbt but have an 18 month wait!I think its fair to say that in cases of mild to moderate depression, excercise and or counselling can combat it without ads but if depression is severe ads can be useful in controlling the symptons while the underlining problem is addressed.Even severe cases of depression can lift slightly once talking thereapies are introduced but as they can take months to see the desired effect ads sometimes have to come into play if someone is perhaps suicidal, as I was a few weeks ago.

I have just found this topic thread and wish I knew about it sooner.

It is right what MKM was saying re counseling etc, Going back 4 yrears ago I was diagnosed with ckinical depression, the DR was quite happy to give me the ADs on there own until I happened to mention the sucidel thoughts I was having most days, then he offered me counceling to go along side the ADs, However I didn't find the counselling very benificial as the psychatrist (SP) tried to convince me that I had been sexually abused as a child and had blocked it out. This made me very angry and luckily even though I was very very low and suicidal I was strong enough to say no that was not the case.

ihad the counselling for 18months in all and ads for 2years. I came off them in June 03. I have had to start the ads again as I have started to become very low (also had lots of stress to deal with and have a 5 month old baby) with the occassional sucidal thought, could never do it though because of how my children would feel knowing that I desserted them!! I find that it is my DH who helps me though he is very good at knowing when I am having (or going to have) a very bad time most of the time so he sits me down and we talk or should I say I talk and bawl and he comforts and listens.

Sorry if I have sidetracked.

i think that unless you are very articulate and know what you want from your health service then AD's are what you are going to get. its very hard being very depressed and maintaining a n even semi articulate consciousness with which to address professionals whith whom one might feel overwhelmed talking to if on top form anyway. i went to the doctor twice in recent years after not being on AD's for over 10 years i went to tell my doctor how moving away from my friends family and community, work collegues and familiarity of my home town had made me depressed.
"have you suffered from this before?
"yes, a long time ago the twins were babies"
" right what were you prescribed then?"
" prozac but it was a long time ago"
" right here you go come back in 3 months and we will see how you are getting on"

i took away my prescription for prozac and binned it - i dont know what was available in my area to be able to ask for it, i was fragile at the time and as already metioned not exactly the most articulate person.

i dont think this is unusual in health care practises.

Good point 80smum.

My personal gripe is the 'depression is a disease' argument. If you believe that then only a 'medicine', eg ADS, will work. It doesn't give you any room to help yourself.

but depression being a disease doesn't mean that there aren't things other than ADs that can help.

lifestyle/stress reducing factors can also help - eating well, sleeping well, exerice, relaxation, "me time", social/family support.

in mild cases these may, alone, in time resolve depression.

Message withdrawn

I agree that ad's are suggested freely on MN - and for me, that has been a good thing. It's almost the only place where I have actually told people that I took them and have felt able to be open about it. Maybe MN enables people to do that - and if I hadn't had contact with other people who did use ads, I might not have taken the step which, at the time, felt like a huge admission of failure.

I was on low-dose ads for about 8 months, and am pleased to say that they worked in exactly the way hmb decribes. And enabled me to make other lifestyle changes which enabled me to stop taking them. Most diseases have lifestyle and/or wider health aspects that can be adjusted to assist recovery or rehabilitation...

You make a number of excellent points there, Blu. Ads can enable people to make lifestyle changes which can assist recovery and rehabilitation; this, of course, happens in many other types of illnesses as well as mental illness without anyone questioning the validity of the treatment.

I still don't agree that ads are pushed on these threads, but certainly they are freely discussed with no judgement passed and (usually) no critical comments being made upon people who are taking them. I also have found this a good thing; I haven't told anyone apart from my dh about my ads but with the prevailing atmosphere of support on these threads I too have felt able to be open about it and to discuss mental illness and its treatment with people who have been there, done that and who are still wearing the T-shirt.