Why do umsnetters seem to think that ads are the answer to everything??

[mykidsmum]

I have lurked on alot of feeling low threads however I feel that alot of people feel low for reasons other than those needing antidepressants.What I find strange is that when anyone suggests anything going wrong in their life everyone jumps on the whole anti depressant bandwagon regardless of whether of these would be of benefit or not. It seems to me that there is alot of evidence on here to suggest they haven't helped people yet it is frequently asked have you changed your ad's?? With the view that a change could make all the difference, maybe it is not ad's that will help but some form of thorough counselling. AD's clearly have their place and have helped many like myself but I get the impression that there are alot who champion their cause without looking into the situation in its own right and looking at the non medicalised route. Discuss!! (not meaning to be controversial but can't believ how many experts there are)

no offence mykidsmum but how can you possibly know that something that seems so trivial to you isnt the last straw to someone who has been through hell? i myself am not on ads anymore because ive been on them for the last 10 years or so and i dont want to rely on them anymore. but lots of us need them...thats why we post on the feeling low board. because we are low! i dont think that your post here will gain you many friends. sorry.

Maybe she's right to point out, though, that ADs work best with counselling. I don't read the threads, but if the emphasis isn't put equally on both I can understand mkm's point.

I'm sure most MN'ers don't suggest AD's willy nilly but do look at the individula case. Often though, when things go wrong it gets into a cycle of someone not being able to go to counselling because they felt so low and unable to act, not being able to solve their problems, the problems staying or getting worse, making them feel lower and less able to do something about it etc etc. AD's are one way to break that cycle - helping that person to feel able to cope, which then allows them to solve their real problems, and hopefully get counselling and then they won't need the AD's. It's not a stand-alone solution but it can be a huge help to someone while they get on with the long-term solution.

Also remember, some people are asking for help on MN because they don't want to go for counselling, they haven't got the confidence, either in themselves or in a counsellor. So being told AD's might help automatically makes them go to a GP who (hopefully) then uses their training to suggest counselling, and at least can assess that person and perhaps help them more than an MN'er can.

Lastly, we're not all experts but mumsnet has such a wide variety of posters that at least one person has probably been through exactly the same situation, and we just share the benefit of our experiences. Many people on here have found that AD's helped them so naturally they suggest that may be the way to go.

yes cases are individual......but for me....if it weren't for MNers telling me and making sure I went to the doctors for ADs, I would certainly be dead..........they have helped me (MNers and ADs). And at the end of the day, its not forever....just like a course of antibiotics isn't......If you are ill you take medicine......so if your brain is ill, why is it different? Sorry......rant over! Hope that makes sense?

I dont think mykidsmum was making any judgements about whether a person's problems are trivial or not. FWIW, I think she's raised a valid point. Are ADs really the answer to everything, the saviour of every person who feels low/depressed? I don't think they are.

There is no doubt whatsoever that they do a great job in the majority of cases (heaven knows I have enough friends who have benefitted from them!) but there are certainly other people who have found other ways to combat their depression. Partly it's a matter of choice. Take me for example. I can see where my bouts of depression come from, I can see what areas of my life need tweaking to try and stop them coming back. Maybe ADs would make me feel better all the time but I don't want to take them: my choice.

Was it Nutty's GP who gave her a plan of Things To Do in her life rather than just hand out ADs? Sometimes that may be all that is needed, someone to give you a shove along in the right direction to help you feel better. It's certainly not going to be the case for all people but in some cases, where it is a number of small, potentially solveble, things that need changing to make your life better it may be a better answer than ADs.

MNers only offer advice based on their own experience. If the majority of posters have experience of ADs and nothing else, of course that's what they're going to suggest - i's worked for them. Same as in all the other topics - if someone asks for a fab recipe and MNers only eat chicken, they're going to get a lot of chicken recipes and no alternatives.

It is important to remember that MN doesn't give an expert opinion, it give personal experiences.

Waffle, waffle, drivel, what a load of pants I write!

oh yes soupy i agree......think i came across all wrong. Sorry. Some doctors just throw them at you like sweets...and then never offer any other support. I do think that in some cases, counselling would be better approach for some people. Sometimes, just having a friendly ear like MN or a feiend in RL is just as good. Hope that makes sense?

I agree with this thread....... I have gone cold turkey on my AD's................. I now think I need counselling. Been on them since April this year, after everything I've been through... they just made me feel numb, now I'm off them I'm back to square 1....But these threads are a life line, please keep contributing.... I am getting through this bad patch with your help......

I think ads work well in clinical depression where counselling probably would have little effect because the illness is chemical and not a reaction to lifes problems.Don't think anyones suggesting that they are the only answer just that sometimes they are neccasary.

All I can say is, that after a lifetime of "feeling low" and three and a half years of clinical depression, ads are the only thing that has helped me. They may not be right for everyone and in every situation, and I certainly wouldn't champion their cause without looking at the situation in it's own right. If you read these threads properly there are people who have discussed CBT, counselling and alternative therapies as well as ads. Many of the opinions regarding ads come in response to people asking about ads or having problems with them, and most of the advice here is to see a GP and find out what help is on opffer - I have seen no "experts" here, only people willing to offer support to other people. Ads might not be the answer to everything, but in my case they are all that's on offer - and they are helping.

mykidsmum, shocked at your post to be honest. From the replies I have seen given on the feeling low thread, the main encouragement is towards counselling, not AD's. I do feel that ADs help enormously for SOME people, but not everyone finds that they help or may need them. Some may find counselling enough in itself, some may need ADs and counselling or others may just need a change of lifestyle. Everyone is different and require different approaches. But to say that we are only telling people to take ADs as an answer to all problems is completely inaccurate, and telling people that this is what is done on the Feeling low threads could be very disappointing and offputting to some who may consider posting in the future. Just have a look at Mummytosteven's posts for example - she gives fabulous advice about CBT and has done so ever since this board started. So, if you have another look at the threads, you will see that not EVERYONE jumps on the bandwagon to demand ADs, but they have tremendously helped a lot of people just by being understanding and giving support. And we are not experts and do not consider ourselves to be but we have all been there and can understand what someone with depression is going through. Am upset that you feel it necessary to criticise people who put a lot of effort into helping others.

Well mykidsmum I think you make a valid point and one that is very suitable for discussion ..

I don't know anything about ADs so I won't join in but just wanted to add my support and say don't worry about the 'I've taken offence at this' posts, I do believe you have written your question very sensitively and it is worth exploring whether its dangerous for a chat room to be dispensing 'go on/change your ADs' advice

mykidsmum - imho I think you're a little bit too harsh, as all the threads I have followed do also recommend other means than AD's. Fair enough a lot of people say 'they've helped me, so might be worth a try', but the get them one has to go to the GP who then hopefully will assess the situation properly and not just dish them out like smarties. In my case GP put me on them prior to counselling, but ONLY after I agreed to seek counselling if the tablets don't work! And she kept a close eye on my progress.
ADs are definitely not the answer to all and for everybody, but they can help getting the 'distance' or calm to solve the underlying problems. In my case they definitely helped as I was in a vicious downward spiral and they 'mended the mind' so my body could recover.

Twiglett, 'cant believe how many experts there are' 'everyone jumps on the whole anti depressant bandwagon' does not sound overly sensitive to me. The fact is that she has her facts completely wrong. Yes, if everyone was saying ADs are the answer to everything it certainly would be worth discussing, but is counselling is constantly recommended there is nothing to discuss. Also, it is hard to see how dangerous it is to encourage someone to see their doctor. And yes she does need to worry about the 'Ive taken offence to this' posts, because these are the very people who have found tremendous help and support on this board, and do not need someone to come along and rubbish what is being done.

mykidsmum -
1)NHS reality is that there is a waiting list as long as your arm - in some instances years for CBT, and can be several months wait for counselling. For my particular condition, OCD, the only effective treatment is CBT and/or OCD, not counselling. Given a lengthy NHS waiting list for CBT, and a possible wait for counselling, or being able to take ADs as soon as you collect the prescription, which would most people choose if you are desperate to feel better as soon as?

2)counselling and/or CBT can be very stressful and raise anxiety levels and/or painful issues. sometimes you have to be feeling slightly less depressed to benefit from it and have to have counselling and ADs together. particularly for people who have experienced physical/sexual abuse from family members, I genuinely believe that not every counsellor who happens to be attached to an NHS surgery is sufficiently skilled to help people through this.

3)i would ask people if they are on ADs/changed ADs for several reasons. If people are on ADs and have missed pills/stopped taking them without medical supervision/stopped taking them too soon, then that may be a fairly obvious reason for their depression.

4)On MN there have been some very negative experiences with side effects on ADs. These do seem to have one particular new drug as a common denominator. Also bear in mind that people who are taking ADs and are finding that they work well are less likely to post on Feeling Low threads than people who are having problems with ADs.

None of us dispense "go on, change your ads" advice. The advice that I have seen on this board about ads has almost invariably been to see a GP if ads don't seem to be working, or if someone is feeling depressed. No-one is advocating ads willy-nilly, but where people are taking them and are not feeling better, the advice here is always to go back to the GP and ask for further help - whatever that help may be. These boards are for support, and aren't fequented by "experts" in ads - just by people who have been there and want to offer support to others who need it. Discussions here are bound to include reference to ads, as it's the first line of treatment most of us come across, but as miam says, not EVERYONE jumps on the bandwagon to demand ADs, most of us try to help by being understanding and giving support. MTS in particular is very knowledgeable about ALL forms of treatment for depression and has given some invaluable information about talking therapies - but has never put herself across as an expert, and like the rest of us her advice is ALWAYS to seek professional help.

The way I read it MKM is accepting ADs have their place, has personal experience of this, but is pointing out a concern that there are alternative solutions ...

She has 'lurked on a lot of feeling low threads' .. I haven't

She has personal experience .. I don't

I think posts where offence is taken at phrases are detrimental to the overall experience of a chat site as useful as MN .. as they only serve to polarise opinions .. ie "you are insulting me hence you are a bad poster and this is a worthless post" then people have to take sides on the validity of the post rather than discuss the points within it

I would assume that if someone is 'feeling low' then they will clutch at any straw and even one post championing ADs may make them feel that is the only solution .. maybe the advice should be to consult the experts but continue to use MN as a sounding board

I would hazard a guess that even if there were psychiatric specialists on these boards it is impossible to diagnose and prescribe without face to face discussions

MN is a support group not a diagnostic / prescription service .. let it long remain that

Noone is prescribing or diagnosing anything - that is the point Twiglett. And as you do not even lurk on the feeling low board, i do not think you are qualified to comment. alternative solutions are constantly encouraged. This would have been a worthwhile post had the person got their facts right and discovered that there was a consistent problem with people 'diagnosing' and 'prescribing'. There is not, and she is insulting people's intelligence to suggest this.

I have made no commments at all on feeling low / ADs or anything .. my comments are focusing on the validity of this as a discussion topic

I am sincerely offended that you feel you are the gatekeeper .. who appointed you? .. and shall comment on what I wish to whenever I wish to

I am apopletic now HOW DARE YOU

And to be fair to MKM she wanted to discuss this and not be controversial. We should be allowed to discuss things without people getting so 'huffy' all the time.

She has been on ad's herself so it isnt as though she doesnt know what she is talking about and is obviously thinking that rather than going down the ad road, some would be better with counselling. Fair point, so stop having a go at her.

I would welcome your comments if they were educated and constructive. But as it is, you are jumping to this person's defence without even knowing the facts. And I am sorry you are offended - am surprised actually considering your previous remarks at people being upset. It seems Twiglett that you simply post to stir and as I have to be on a plane in 2 hourse, do not have time to ride on the merry go round with you.

will you lot pack it in before it gets nasty please??? we all have views on ADs. Everyone knows they arent the answer to everything, but CAN help.........

Easy, miam.

twiglett and miam - i'm not having a go because I agree with points that both of you make but you're turning what could be a heatly debate into a nasty slanging match - which surely isn't in anyone's interests.

You are right MIAM .. it is silly of me to get offended .. it was a momentary lapse and I certainly won't be holding a grudge

My comments are constructive actually, and as I'm fairly well educated I'll just ignore that comment shall I? .. its just I disagree with you which you don't seem to be able to accept