What to do about DD??

[Overlookhotel]

I know I shouldn't ask for an internet diagnosis and I WILL be encouraging DD to speak to GP but just need some idea of where to start, how to make sense of what's going on! Sorry to be brief but so much to say and I'm not sure how to get it all down;

DD (18 now) has always been a little bit highly strung and had issues with certain things for a long time - we didn't so much think she'd grow out of it but grow up to have more coping skills and it's not happening, she's getting worse and worse. When she was about 8/9 we spoke to GP about concerns and got referred to paed who said she may have sensory processing disorder, due to a fair few things which ticked those boxes, such as fussy eating, problems with clothing, problems with noise etc but they were "anxious not to give her a label" and suggested just having school and home work round her so nothing much more was really done.

Since then to now DD has had less problem with those sort of things but her behaviour is way more erratic. She has more and more 'tantrums' for want of a better word, they're definitely not 'meltdowns' in the way I've always seen them described but more than just a teen strop, maybe halfway between the two? They always seem triggered off by changes, not big changes such as moving schools etc, she seems to cope quite well with big changes, it's tiny things that set her off (although maybe it's a 'straw that broke the camels back' type thing?).

Eg, today we were baking together and everything was fine until she dropped some egg on the tablecloth and I started moving everything off to put the tablecloth quickly in the washing machine (I wasn't cross in the least or anything) then popped it on for a quick wash before the egg dried. DD normally does the laundry as one of her chores but I didn't mind putting this on as it was an emergency. DD got really stressed though when she saw I'd put it on saying she should have been the one to do it and I should have asked her to do it. Then she got cross again 5 mins later because she left the end of a banana in the skin when peeling them and I saw, popped it out and put it in the mixing bowl with the rest, she got really annoyed because I was 'messing about with the mixture' (that's genuinely all I did).

Big crises can come and go without any more stress than anyone else would show but these tiny things seem to really set her off. She was really agitated and started being really rude to me, I tried to calm her down but then had to tell her not to be so rude but she worked herself up more and more and got completely 'stuck' (she wouldn't finish off the cooking, wouldn't stop being rude so we could do it together, wouldn't let me finish it, wouldn't throw the whole thing away, wouldn't choose if I gave her a simple 'either or' choice to avoid her being overwhelmed).

In the end she got so worked up she was yelling at me and chewing on tissues, literally staring at me blankly shoving tissues into her mouth as if she was eating them. She's not done that before but has done other stuff like sit banging her head against a door or ripping a cardboard box into tiny pieces for ages in frustration. In the end she finally agreed to go up to her room to calm down because I said I'd phone 111 for help if she couldn't calm herself.

I don't know what to do, her moods get more and more volatile and to sounds horrible but I can't even tell what's bad MH, what's laziness and what's drama just to get attention tbh. Some times she's lovely and sweet, more often she's really depressed and sometimes she's in these explosive moods.

She's got no friends, literally none, isn't bothered at all about getting a social life or doing much outside the house except walks, and sleeps and eats erratically despite everything I say/suggest to try and change it. She's basically 'unlearning' common sense, even things she'd handle a couple of years ago now seem beyond her, and any setback makes her either furious or really depressed.

Covid has definitely made it worse too, she pulled out of A-levels a month before finishing because she was so depressed but since then hasn't really felt any better. I should push her into getting a job but she's not keen because of covid and tbh I'm not sure she could handle a job.

DD has said before she thinks she might have ADHD, I think maybe that or she has some signs of autism but nothing seems to fit completely. She hates the idea of going to GP or counselling but I'm not capable of dealing with this by myself, I'm not arrogant enough to think I can help DD all by myself and she's resisting me trying to help even if I thought I could!

I deal with these flare ups as well as I can, probably not that well, but I'm really struggling - I have anxiety myself, DH has depression and tbh our whole blinking family is a mental health textbook so I'm feeling like the base of a flimsy house of cards most days. I don't know how to help DD.

I'm not even 100% sure what I'm asking tbh but can anyone help me with wtf I'm supposed to do.

Maybe she has ADHD or doesn’t, I am ADHD and must admit that your behaviour would probably have tipped me over the edge.

Why was it so important that you stop everything to put a table cloth with a bit of egg on in the washing machine.
Egg is hardly likely to stain (what do you do when you have dinner. Does no one spill anything and when Dd was small and learning to eat on her own. Did she have perfect table manners and no spills or did you run around washing everything and wiping things down.
What difference did it make picking up a presumably discarded banana skin to get the last little bit out.
Was it really necessary

It sounds like a combination of both of you. Personally I would have just wiped up the spilt egg and carried on baking. Washing the cloth immediately seems OTT and disruptive. Do you set high standards for her to live up to ?
DD would benefit from joining a class or club or volunteering with people her own age, outside the family.

I don't understand why you couldn't just wipe the egg off the cloth and carry on? I suspect the banana was then just the final straw. With hindsight, would you have done either of those things differently?

Can you ring your GP for advice? It does sound like she needs help.

I can't get away from the 'stopping everything to wash the tea towel' either..
I would have 'kicked off' a little bit too..

You sound quite highly strung yourself to consider a bit of egg on a tablecloth as an 'emergency'. If the tablecloth was that precious it shouldn't have been used for baking. You've basically set her up to fail with that one, knowing baking is likely to involve some spillages and then declaring an emergency when the predictable spillage happened. You might have behaved calmly but it would have still come across as you being critical and disapproving of her making mess by being so focused on removing the dirty tablecloth.

So she was already probably wound up by you and the unnecessary tablecloth drama and then you start- in her eyes- picking faults in what she's done with the bananas and it all blew up. Then she's rude and probably you 'calming her down' got her even more riled up. It's just all descended into chaos and you probably needed to just walk away and leave her to calm down and bake rather than keep going at her to try to solve the problem when she was stressed and upset. She's an adult who's got pissed off with another adult interfering and being critical, just walk away and speak to her later about it and you can both apologise to each other.

If this is a typical example of her behaviour then I think rather than looking at just her, it would be useful to look at yourself and your relationship and see what triggers are going on. I think she probably could benefit from some MH support and she sounds like a very stressed, lonely and unhappy soul however your day to day life could be made much calmer if you try to avoid completely unnecessary altercations like the one that went on with the tablecloth.

I was struck by your use of "popping" - you popped the tablecloth on to wash, you popped the banana out.

Gives the idea of trying to play something down. I wonder if actually these things made you feel terribly anxious and you had to jump in and do something which to alleviate the anxiety?

Which then clashes with Dds need to control her environment and the tasks she's doing?

Eggs on the table cloth really not an "emergency" ... though I think it can feel that way for you?

It does sound difficult and I do really feel for you.

Are you and dh getting help with your anxiety and depression?

Seems odd to have a tablecloth in everyday use where you are cooking literally everyone I know has wipe clean surfaces where they prepare food. Table cloth for Christmas Day or similar.

Oh my goodness op, what to do about DD? When it's you who needs to be thinking about your behaviour and how negatively it is impacting on your dd's mental health?

Often parents point their finger at their DC for eccentric or bad behaviour when it is actually a reaction to their environment and how they have been brought up and the impact their parents have on them.

I think you need to listen to what your dd is saying. Ask her what you can do together to improve and reduce the stress in the family dynamism.

Try and work things through together and if you are both still struggling then pay for counseling. I work in mental health services and the waiting times are years long so it is best to pay privately if you cannot work things out together.

Your dd needs to build up her confidence and she needs to have more control. If you bake together then let her lead on it, be her assistant but don't bother if you are going to be overly controlling like you were earlier.

Putting your self in other's shoes, seeing things from other angles, having some insight into how you come across and saying sorry and actually listening to the litany of accusations instead of just dismissing what she is saying as being rude.

You need to be able to communicate well and work out a way to compromise. Al or of mental health difficulties come from low self esteem, low confidence, lack of social skills, lack of opportunities and fear of no ot being perfect, of not fitting in, of being worthless and having no hope.

You need to unpick what is going on, look at yourself and the mistakes you have made and see what you can do to improve things.

Ask her to do the same and go from there.

Good luck.

I think it sounds like your DD may have autism. The behaviours and frustrations you give are very similar to my teenage son, who has autism.
The sensory issues she had when younger, and the issues she has all are indicators that she could be on the spectrum. There is a huge amount of overlap between ASD/ADHD so many similar traits.
She really does need to speak to her GP, maybe with a prepared list of all of her issues, including historic ones. It may be worth exploring the possibility of an assessment, for her to have some answers and to access support including study/employment support.

What difference would a diagnosis make- will it offer her additional support to a level she needs which she wouldn’t be able to access anyway? IME a lot of the work around emotional regulation can be done using some CBT techniques and some long term integrative work, which she could access regardless of a diagnosis.

Have a listen to Mandy Saligari’s ted talks.

It sounds as though she is pretty fragile and perceives that you were trying to control her, and just lost it. 18 year olds can be very volatile because they're teetering between childhood and adulthood under normal circumstances and further, because of the pandemic, current school leavers not had many of the usual rites of passage and growing/learning opportunities that the 6th form years would normally involve. Could she have done the baking autonomously? Why was it done on a tablecloth at all, not just on a wipeable work surface? The banana thing would count as interfering, plus she may have regarded the very end of the banana as yucky in some way (dd would). The tissue eating is extreme but maybe a way of demonstrating the extent of her distress. I agree with others that she needs to get out of the house and she definitely needs some autonomy. Can she resit the missed exams with a view to moving on to higher education? A private counsellor for her to talk to in confidence could be very beneficial. I hope things improve for her.

Another one who really can't get past the 'egg on tablecloth emergency situation'
I'm guessing that this is just one example of you totally overreacting and creating a huge issue out of nothing?
I'm guessing this doesn't exactly help your dd!!

Thanks for all the replies, I think I've explained very badly in some parts!

The tablecloth is just a cheapo one to cover up awful stains on the table that DD especially doesn't like looking at (we need to get round to repainting it), I'm not fussy about it at all, it can get dirty no problem then just be chucked in the wash. I would have taken it off though but DD had already started, got everything out, so I wasn't bothered about disturbing everything and her just to move the tablecloth, maybe bad idea! When she spilt the egg she was the one bothered by it, desperately trying to scrub it (because she wanted it sorted, not because I wanted it cleaned, she is FAR more bothered by mess than me), I initially suggested leaving paper towel on it, not bothering with it, until we'd finished and then we could put it in the wash (again, with hindsight if it wasn't there at all it would have been easy to wipe the table but hindsight is 20/20) but this wasn't enough for DD. Moving the things on the cloth, just to the table so DD could still carry on baking while I was doing it, seemed the least disruptive.

I'm not so slovenly that we're at risk of noro but I really don't have high standards whatsoever, DD is incredibly fussy though at times, eg her bedroom is a pigsty (fine, it's her room, no probs) but if I for instance leave a glass on the side and get a new one, forgetting I haven't put that one in the wash, she'll tell me off about it or if she drops a biscuit she was getting on the floor she'll start swearing her head off as if something awful has happened (again, DH and I couldn't be bothered, get another one, biscuits aren't that valuable!). Sorry to use the word emergency about the egg, I just meant it was worth throwing in the wash there and then.

I definitely think DD would benefit from speaking to GP/counsellor but she keeps flatly refusing (gently suggested it again when we talked after I posted yesterday). A lot of the problem, which doesn't help my anxiety either, is DD is very resistant to being autonomous. She absolutely clings to me (emotionally, not physically), I've tried for years to encourage her to be independent but been very careful not to reject her either (more like 'you can do this' rather than 'leave me alone') but she's still set that she only wants to talk to me about stuff, even when she hates me half the time, and not to a GP/counsellor/friend/family member (would help if the little family we have weren't a bit crap to be fair!). I'd love her to have a social life, go to groups etc and have encouraged her but she's not interested, even when she's had friends through school she's drifted away from them.

If I encouraged her to bake on her own she'd say I was making it all go wrong, I've got the years of experience so why can't I help her.

I'm 100% sure there's lots I could change to help her but I'm really struggling to know what to do, I honestly think I don't demand a huge amount from her, DH too - tbh his depression means he expects very little from everyone, but we do both have help for our MH and I think we manage it fairly well. Most of it seems to come from DD herself but I'm not sure where it's coming from for her. Eg, teachers (and us) being over the moon when she did B level work in GCSE years and her being devastated because it wasn't A* level, us being really happy when a short rain shower just before a walk stops after 2 mins, her telling us we're stupid not to realise that bit of rain has now spoilt the whole walk etc.

I think DD would listen to a diagnosis more than not having one as she likes things to be concrete, ie to be told she has autism for example before she'll do the techniques involved but I'll have a look at those and encourage her to try them.

@Smudgingpastels

Oh my goodness op, what to do about DD? When it's you who needs to be thinking about your behaviour and how negatively it is impacting on your dd's mental health?

Often parents point their finger at their DC for eccentric or bad behaviour when it is actually a reaction to their environment and how they have been brought up and the impact their parents have on them.

I think you need to listen to what your dd is saying. Ask her what you can do together to improve and reduce the stress in the family dynamism.

Try and work things through together and if you are both still struggling then pay for counseling. I work in mental health services and the waiting times are years long so it is best to pay privately if you cannot work things out together.

Your dd needs to build up her confidence and she needs to have more control. If you bake together then let her lead on it, be her assistant but don't bother if you are going to be overly controlling like you were earlier.

Putting your self in other's shoes, seeing things from other angles, having some insight into how you come across and saying sorry and actually listening to the litany of accusations instead of just dismissing what she is saying as being rude.

You need to be able to communicate well and work out a way to compromise. Al or of mental health difficulties come from low self esteem, low confidence, lack of social skills, lack of opportunities and fear of no ot being perfect, of not fitting in, of being worthless and having no hope.

You need to unpick what is going on, look at yourself and the mistakes you have made and see what you can do to improve things.

Ask her to do the same and go from there.

Good luck.

Thanks, I totally agree there's bound to be a lot I can do, I'm just having difficulty knowing what to do next, I do try talking to DD and she's talked about not having much confidence etc too but I reach a block about what to do to improve things, she always says she doesn't know but doesn't want to see a counsellor/read a book about it/watch a Youtube video with suggestions/etc, but she doesn't know what she does want.

I think seeking a diagnosis is sensible next step, it does sound a lot like my asd dd. Diagnosis can give me insights eg ah I don't like those chewing noises because of my autism not because I am 'weird'. Ultimately a 'label' won't change who she is, so you can start trying out various strategies and see which ones help. Eg first time we tried noise cancelling headphones for our dd in the car we weren't expecting it to make any difference but it was dramatically effective in lowering stress on journeys. So a bit of trial and error.

Similarly when calming down meltdowns we used to think we were doing the right thing saying or explaining eg we are trying to help you /we are not trying to hurt you but never got anywhere that way. Much better to recognise what they are feeling eg it must be scary in the shower right now or finding alternate ways to communicate (notes under door was an early winner for us, now upgraded to WhatsApp chats!)

@milkjetmum

I think seeking a diagnosis is sensible next step, it does sound a lot like my asd dd. Diagnosis can give me insights eg ah I don't like those chewing noises because of my autism not because I am 'weird'. Ultimately a 'label' won't change who she is, so you can start trying out various strategies and see which ones help. Eg first time we tried noise cancelling headphones for our dd in the car we weren't expecting it to make any difference but it was dramatically effective in lowering stress on journeys. So a bit of trial and error.

Similarly when calming down meltdowns we used to think we were doing the right thing saying or explaining eg we are trying to help you /we are not trying to hurt you but never got anywhere that way. Much better to recognise what they are feeling eg it must be scary in the shower right now or finding alternate ways to communicate (notes under door was an early winner for us, now upgraded to WhatsApp chats!)

Thanks for that, when you're trying new ways to deal with things or strategies were there any books/sites etc you found helpful or was it more trial and error? DD doesn't seem to know what she wants or wants us to do a lot of the time and I'm a bit overwhelmed with the information out there.

Could you re-read @Smudgingpastels post again @Overlookhotel? Read it really slowly and carefully if you can. She isn't posting ways to change your daughter, she is asking you to take a look at yourself and your own expectations and how you communicate and come across. Your daughter is reacting to you and the environment that she lives in. A high level of anxiety about pretty mundane stuff and being constantly dismissed as 'rude' and having conversations shut down is a very difficult way to live. Please do your daughter a favour and have some counselling yourself.

We just did things we'd heard about online and also tips from other parents/instructors on a parenting course we did (my dd is younger, and this is a requirement in our area before asd assessment). Perhaps some reputable fiction books on girls with asd could be a good place to start for your dd? Eg a kind of spark I read the first few pages and felt like yep I recognise this. Local parent support groups will also generally accept you before diagnosis (in recognition of how long this can take) have a look on fb for those in your area. Also special needs board here is worth a browse. But important to know every child is different and so will be trial and error to find things that work well for your dd.

Fyi can be a bit painful to look back once you have learned better strategies eg there are some times we thought dd was really naughty eg special days out but now I look back on those days differently. But we can just keep moving forward and trying our best