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BPD/ EUPD diagnosis

38 replies

Capricorn8990 · 31/05/2021 13:11

Hi all, not really sure where to begin but I'll give you a it of context.

I'm adopted and when I was in the womb I suffered a lot of trauma before I was even in this world. My birth mum was/ is alcohol dependent and she would drink herself into oblivion and take drugs such as cocaine. She would self harm often cutting her own throat. She was a lady of the night and got into multiple fights.

I am diagnosed with OCD and was with CAMHS from 11-18. A therapist who specialised in adoption and therapy explained that I basically came out into the world as a scared babu due to what my birth mum put me through, so I developed OCD to take control and self soothe. I've been told I have attachment issues too which a lot of adoptive children have.

Anyways, I believe that I have BPD/ EUPD. I have been reading a lot about it and out of the 9 symptoms I have 6. I fear being abandoned, I push people away without meaning to, I often binge drink (not alcohol dependent). I have outbursts of rage, I hurt myself, hit my head on the floor, scratch myself, pull out my hair. I never hurt anyone else but I throw and break things and I space out when I do it and then come to. My emotions are up and down and I am triggered by the smallest things. I often feel lonely with people around me and I never know who I truly am. I have spates of extreme happiness and then extreme lows. I often don't know what I want to do in life and get bored quite easily. I feel unfulfilled. I am a real people pleaser and I feel paranoid that people have something planned to hurt me. I don't trust easily but I go above and beyond for everyone. I often hate myself, have feelings of not wanting to live and that I'm a burden. I have had these feelings since I was very young and to me it's very much normal.

The one thing I guess I have managed is a relationship of 7.5 years, we have a house together too. I hold down a job and friendships too. I'm an adult and I want to speak to the doctor about the possibility of having this, but I feel that I won't be listened to. My birth mum also has it and I know that it can be hereditary.

Will I be taken seriously? Does anyone know what the process is like for a diagnosis? Does anyone have a similar experience? What treatment is best for this? Is it hard to get diagnosed as an adult?

I hear that professionals don't like treating people with this so I am scared about being dismissed like I was when getting help for OCD.

Any help/ advice is much appreciated. Xx

OP posts:
mangoontoast · 31/05/2021 13:14

I wouldn't push for a diagnosis. There is no treatment and there is a lot of stigma amongst the healthcare profession, even MH workers, about BPD. I would push for a referral to adult MH services though.

Capricorn8990 · 31/05/2021 13:19

@mangoontoast I've tried to get referrals before and they say I'm not unwell enough. That's why when I turned 18 I was cut off and given only self esteem booklets yet I was kept on antidepressants.. it makes no sense. I understand they are so busy but it seems that you have to get to the point of breaking to get any support. Otherwise paying for it privately which is very expensive x

OP posts:
RandomMess · 31/05/2021 13:39

I would actually research into complex PTSD - I think you will find your fit the profile for it.

Capricorn8990 · 31/05/2021 13:44

@RandomMess I will take a look - thank you x

OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 31/05/2021 13:44

I agree with @mangoontoast that this is not a good diagnosis to seek due to stigma. There is treatment called DBT (Dialectical Behaviour Therapy) which helps some but not all BPD/EUPD sufferers.

Unfortunately many people, especially women, are misdiagnosed with EUPD/BPD as there is overlap between that and other several conditions such as Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (cPTSD), Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), and Major Depressive Disorder (MDD). So you could have any combination of these.

That said, it doesn’t sound like you have it from your OP. Everyone fears abandonment, but in EUPD/BPD this fear is so bad that they are forced to sabotage all relationships. You see what I mean? The symptom not only must be present but be serious enough to affect your life profoundly. In addition, self-harm in EUPD/BPD isn’t typically caused by rage but more complex emotional dysregulation. And so on.

However, you do clearly have some issues that are bothering you. I think one possibility is you might have active depression going on as you have been diagnosed with that in the past and are on anti-depressants- when was your last medication review? You having suicidal thoughts and feeling lonely/burden etc which means you probably need a change in your medication.

So, YES ask GP for referral for psychological assessment. I see you have asked once, ask again. At very least they have to refer you to adult mental health for a medication review once there you may have opportunity to get psychiatrist to refer you direct for psychological assessment. Don’t say to them what Disorder/diagnosis you think you have. Just be an open book and let the psychiatrist and psychologist do their profession.

Capricorn8990 · 31/05/2021 14:28

@PlanDeRaccordement thanks for your reply and your advice/ expertise. I'll be asking for a referral but I honestly have never been taken seriously. I came off anti depressants after 15 years on them. I don't want to go back I want therapy as I feel that's better as it actually gets to the root of the problem and doesn't mask it.

Believe me, this all does affect my life so badly. My relationship especially. I don't know how we've not broken up really. It's tough. I won't go asking for a diagnosis as you said, I'll just go with an open mind and see if there is anything going on that I can be referred for help for.

Thanks again x

OP posts:
withgraceinmyheart · 31/05/2021 14:38

Hi OP, I’m so sorry you’re suffering so much. I just wanted to jump on and say that as someone with very severe OCD I have spent a lot of time worrying that I don’t have the right diagnosis, looking up symptoms online etc. I was particularly worried about BDP/EUPD because its so scary sounding and stigmatised. When I was being treated I asked them a lot of times to ‘check’ that I didn’t really have BPD or bipolar disorder etc. Initially my psychologist would explain why I didn’t fit the symptoms, but then they started to say ‘I think this is a part of your OCD and me reassuring isn’t helpful so I’m not going to’.

I wanted to share that, because I wonder whether you might be going through the same thing. Part of OCD is the constant search for certainty, but you’ll never be certain you have the ‘right’ diagnosis.

I found it more helpful to look for and engage with whatever treatments I found helpful, rather than obsessing about the diagnosis itself.

Waiting times for nhs treatments are extremely long at the moment. Do you have the means to look for something privately? A lot of people offer discounts for people who need them.

Capricorn8990 · 31/05/2021 14:45

@withgraceinmyheart thank you so much
for sharing your experience with me. I really appreciate it and I did used to be a lot like that myself. I was so scared that I was going be like my birth mum who has a lot of MH problems and so does her sisters.

I have access to support services through work which is good, but I'm not sure what kind of support they offer and if they have trained specialists within that field. It's something I'll have to explore but I wasn't even aware of that access until recently.

Like I said previously I do feel that to get support on NHS you've got to reach rock bottom before you're even listened to. It's so rubbish xx

OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 31/05/2021 15:00

OP
I hope you can access some therapy though your employer as well. I understand about not wanting to take medication, but in many cases some medication is absolutely necessary to manage a MH condition.

In my case, schizophrenia. But in a close friend, he has MDD, and he cannot come off anti-depressants and that’s even after many years of therapy. There is a genetic component to many MH conditions and so no amount of therapy will change DNA. He tried a few times and ended up suicidal every time. Eventually he agreed with his psychiatrist that for him, antidepressants are as essential as my anti-psychotics or an asthma sufferer their inhaler. It is no shame to take medication that helps, and nothing wrong with figuring out that you genuinely need it to live your best life.

I agree medication can be over relied upon as a quick fix for people who do also need therapy. Some honestly can then go without medication, but others truly cannot.

I hope you get the help you need.

Capricorn8990 · 31/05/2021 15:14

@PlanDeRaccordement I probably should go back on them as I've been erratic and with working from home I get so overwhelmed. I understand some conditions you really do need them like you say with the asthma comparison with the inhaler. I think I'm just in denial with it and fed up of living my life like this. I never feel like lll ever be truly happy. That hurts.

Sorry about your diagnosis and I hope you cope well. Or as well as you can xx

OP posts:
FrankensteinIsTheMonster · 31/05/2021 15:16

Don't go inviting trouble for yourself. A BPD label is something that once you've had applied to you, you'll never be free of.

PlanDeRaccordement · 31/05/2021 15:29

Don’t be shy about trying different medications. They have so many antidepressants and they all work differently. It may be the ones you were on you built up a tolerance to so they weren’t really working anymore so you feel shit, so you then went off them and feel no better or worse, but still shit.

You can with a psychiatrist try numerous different ones until you find one that works. I have another friend that found sertraline worked best for her depression, and it’s one that is prescribed both for depression or cPTSD/PTSD. Even if one works, but you hate the side effects, ask to try something else. Many antidepressants they don’t honestly know why they work, so psychiatrists are usually happy to let you try different ones until you find one that works for you, both mentally and side effect wise.

Oh, don’t worry about me. My condition is well managed. I have got a good medication combination going on and am living well.

On happiness (this could be a whole separate thread on what is happiness), i think for most people happiness comes in moments. I don’t know anyone that reaches a happiness level and stays there. They tend to say they are content or comfortable and then get moments of happiness.

(although life throws shit at you so you do get lows as well from time to time and lockdown/WFH plus home schooling, is shit being thrown at us to be honest. It can be a pressure cooker. The news has reported higher % of people struggling with their mental health because of this, so I hope you will find that doctors will be more empathy and understanding)

MrsChuckBass · 31/05/2021 15:31

Hi OP
I'm a mental health nurse and I would advise against pushing for this diagnosis. As PPs have stated, there is a lot of stigma and judgement from healthcare professionals towards those with this particular diagnosis and they are often viewed as very difficult to treat and can be passed around services etc.
I agree with a PP who suggested you read into C-PTSD
Best wishes

FrankensteinIsTheMonster · 31/05/2021 15:47

Trouble with BPD is that it's more than one thing.

One of the things that it is, is a cluster of feelings and behaviours that some people have trouble with, which can benefit from certain types of treatment.

Another of the things that it is, is a label psychiatrists use to signal "don't bother with this one, too much like hard work", applied on a whim regardless of whether the patient meets criteria. The label is incredibly sticky: the BPD criteria are broad enough (especially if you include the unspoken criteria) that anything the patient says or does can be turned into supporting evidence.

You might be the former. But once labelled, you'll be indistinguishable from the latter to most professionals.

Capricorn8990 · 31/05/2021 16:22

@FrankensteinIsTheMonster thank you for your replies and advice. I think I'll just speak to my doctor about the emotions I'm having and how strong they are for me. I am going to ask to be referred for a referral but I am dubious at them making it for me xx

OP posts:
Capricorn8990 · 31/05/2021 16:23

@PlanDeRaccordement maybe I should try a different one. I've been on sertraline and fluoxetine and sertraline was best for me at the time.

I'm glad you manage well. That's good to hear. Thanks for replying and your advice.

I hope the doctor will listen to me due to the issues people have been facing with mental health problems rising due to lockdown xx

OP posts:
Capricorn8990 · 31/05/2021 16:24

@MrsChuckBass thank you for replying. I've had a look into complex PTSD but I don't think I really fit the mould.. I will ask my doctor to make a referral and see what they say xx

OP posts:
Knotswapper · 31/05/2021 17:12

First off, let me say that I really feel for you if you think you have BPD and I'm sorry that things have been so tough for you.

My DD was diagnosed with BPD a few years ago. Not in the UK though.

It took several months and many crisis referrals to the mental health teams before the diagnosis was settled on. Then a further 2-4 years before the medication was right.

All I can tell you is that it's truly horrible for everybody. She's incredibly impulsive, very sexually so (this has led to some moments that most mothers would do anything to avoid), but also emotionally, with self-harming and suicide attempts. She cannot plan or look to the future at all and gets very angry if any such attempt is made but also is very demanding in relationships - if I 'wrong' her - and that can be just with a perceived nuance in my tone of voice, she can be incredibly cruel. On the other hand she writes me the most beautiful cards saying how much she appreciates everything I do (pushing away vs idealisation).

A very slight deviation on her medication and things fall apart VERY quickly.

You describe I think disassociation, where you zone out, which DD does too.

I think to some of the previous posters points is that there are quite a few overlaps between BPD and bipolar and PTSD, amongst others, so you'd need a psychiatrist to really get to the bottom of it.

Even on medication I don't think that DD will be able to hold down a job that relies on relationships (eg having a boss or colleagues!).

That said, I've been told by people with BPD that relationships get easier as they get older so the fact that you are in a relationship doesn't mean to say that you don't have BPD.

I really wish you well and I hope that you have support.

Capricorn8990 · 31/05/2021 17:28

@Knotswapper I am so so sorry that your DD and your family have had to experience what you've described and I thank you for sharing that with me. You sound so supportive and an amazing person.

I definitely will need to see a psychiatrist. I've seen a psychologist before who said I have attachment issues and am emotionally unstable but never got further than that. I guess I'm just looking for a reason for why I am the way I am as I know it's not normal behaviour and I hate myself.

I wish you and your DD all the best and hope that with time her relationships become more stable zz

OP posts:
Knotswapper · 31/05/2021 17:44

Bless you, I think the BPD sufferers have it harder than I do! It's a minefield as you'll know.

Whether it's BPD or not, I think psychiatric support will help for something that is not your fault. My DD is certainly at least living a life now - a few years ago we weren't sure she would survive.

You seem very intuitive, I really hope you can get some support to get to the bottom of things x

T0stada · 31/05/2021 22:48

I stumbled upon this by accident while looking for threads on WFH and have created an account because I really strongly wanted to offer a different perspective to those encouraging you not to seek a diagnosis/treatment for BPD. Apologies if this is a long post. I'll try to keep it as brief as possible.

My whole life was plagued by BPD from my teenage years on. Every single aspect of my life. I was unable to complete my education, moved from job to job being fired or jumping before I was pushed. Relationships with family and friends were strained in the extreme because of my condition, and I lost many friends because they couldn't handle it. I did not have a long term relationship between the ages of 19 and 37. Men in my social circle didn't want to date me because I was the manifestations of my condition were well known to people, and when I did date someone, it would all go very wrong, very quickly. I binged on alcohol and drugs dangerously, got into financial trouble constantly, engaged in dangerous sexual behaviours, self harmed and attempted suicide. I had various forms of talking therapy on both on the NHS and privately, as well as spells on different medications. Nothing made a difference.

Finally, in my late 20s I found myself living abroad, having run away from the latest set of disasters. I had yet another mental health crisis and my family paid for me to seek treatment at a private international hospital. There I was diagnosed with BPD by both a clinical psychologist and a psychiatrist, and the diagnosis made sense of everything that I had experienced my whole life. However dialectical behaviour therapy was not available where I was living at the time, and although I was offered more generalised treatment, I was unable to continue for very long due to the cost. Family and friends urged me to return to the UK so that I could seek specialist treatment, but I was unwilling to uproot and determined to pursue my plans abroad, convinced that I would move half way across the world only to be denied the treatment I needed. Life continued to be turbulent in every respect, with periods of being semi functional and seeming like things were improving, followed by yet another crisis. Various traumatic and damaging things happened while I was there, partly because I was known to be vulnerable and was preyed upon by some very unpleasant people, and partly due to my own impaired judgement.

Eventually things fell apart completely, and I returned to the UK. I had heard that it was difficult to get a BPD diagnosis on the NHS, and was worried, like you, that I would not be taken seriously despite having a diagnosis from a hospital in another country. I started looking at private psychiatrists (my family had agreed to pay for one session, just to get my diagnosis confirmed.) However my GP had given me an emergency mental health referral and to my surprise I was seen by an NHS psychiatric nurse three weeks later, who got me a consultation with a psychiatrist two weeks after that. I was expecting to have a struggle to get him to confirm a BPD diagnosis, and did not have my medical records from abroad.

However, it was all so easy I couldn't believe I had put off seeking treatment for so long due to fears I would not be believed or taken seriously. I simply went through all my symptoms with him, explaining how they manifested, and he confirmed my diagnosis straight away, and referred me for further assessment. This consisted of three sessions with a psychologist for who took a very in-depth history and decided on the next steps.

In the area I was living at the time there were two courses of BPD available, both in group therapy settings, one a year long for people with very severe symptoms, and one four months long for people whose condition was milder. It was decided that I fell between the two, and therefore that I would receive individual therapy using a mix of approaches including DBT, compassion-focused therapy and mindfulness. I was skeptical about the last two as they initially sounded a little bit woolly to me, but I was to be proven wrong.

I was initially told that I would have to wait three months to begin the treatment, but due to unexpected staff changes I ended up waiting about six months until a suitable psychologist was available. In the meantime I was offered a couple of support sessions with another therapist just to offer some support.

The difference the treatment made to my life has been unbelievable. I got back into work after a year and a half of unemployment and managed to stay employed. I studied for and actually completed a qualification for the first time since leaving school almost two decades before. I got back into a career that I had previously abandoned because my condition meant I just couldn't hack it long term, and have been working in that successfully for nearly a year now. I met a wonderful man, got into a healthy relationship for the first time in my life, and am now married and hoping to start a family shortly.

At the end of my treatment I was told that I no longer meet the criteria for diagnosis, and therefore am in recovery from BPD, and was given a detailed report saying that I had responded effectively to treatment and no longer have the condition. I still have traits of course, and always will. I have my ups and downs, and my anxiety has been an issue since the beginning of the pandemic. But for the first time I am happy, healthy, stable, and am building the life I always wanted but never believed possible.

I was treated with courtesy and respect throughout the entire process of seeking and receiving treatment on the NHS. The stigma attached to the condition is fading away as the condition is now better understood and known to be treatable. I had some ill informed comments from one locum GP, but ignored them as I knew that what she said was simply based on outdated attitudes and not in line with current thinking. My regular GP, and the psychiatrists, psychologists and mental health nurses I saw were all unfailingly understanding, compassionate, respectful and helpful.

During my last session with my therapist I discussed my plans to start a family and asked whether my history would prevent me getting IVF, should I need it due to my age. She looked shocked, said that she had never heard of anyone being refused fertility treatment on that basis, and that should I ever encounter any such problems due to having BPD in my medical history, she would send a report saying that I have recovered and that there is no reason why I should be discriminated against in any way.

I know this was a long post, but I wanted you to get a different view, and understand fully just how transformative a diagnosis and targeted treatment can be, if you do indeed turn out to have BPD. It is no longer true that most providers are hostile and that all sufferers are stigmatised. It may be true in some quarters, but things have changed so much. Don't feel afraid to seek the help you need,

(Also apologies if this doesn't read well. I am too emotionally exhausted after typing all that to proof read. I just thought it was important that you, and anyone else afraid of diagnosis and treatment, see that things really can get so much better.)

FrankensteinIsTheMonster · 31/05/2021 23:06

I had heard that it was difficult to get a BPD diagnosis on the NHS

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Okay, best-case scenario, yes, it is possible to get good treatment on the NHS for the kind of problems that can fit the BPD label. Rare though. I'm glad you managed to access it and have benefitted so much. However, the risk of discriminatory treatment is still high if you have at any point attracted that diagnosis, whether you fit criteria or not.

FrankensteinIsTheMonster · 31/05/2021 23:19

I'll tell you how hard it is to get a BPD diagnosis on the NHS.

I was studying recently, and there were five of us on my specific course at my institution. Over the three years, three out of the five of us experienced problems with mental health. One with a pre-existing diagnosis of bipolar disorder, one with a trauma history, one with no previous mental health problems. All three of us came out the other end of the community mental health sausage machine with a shiny new BPD diagnosis and TTFO.

dangermouseisace · 31/05/2021 23:58

I’d be wary about trying to get a BDP/EUPD diagnosis. I’ve got one- and now I’m never believed about physical issues...it’s always “anxiety” 🙄. I think everyone can identify with symptoms, or has traits, but it only becomes a “disorder” where it is having a severe impact on your life. Eg my diagnosis was plonked on my file after prolonged crisis/hospital admissions/suicide attempts. I still feel shitty a lot of the time but am working and managing day to day life, so would be classed as being “in remission”. I think CPTSD is a less stigmatising label.

PlanDeRaccordement · 01/06/2021 09:12

Not the NHS, but similar here in France. I was initially misdiagnosed with EUPD when my schizophrenia started in my 20s. The psychiatrist called my hallucinations “psuedo-hallucinations” as in was I faking them for attention? And I was “over emotional”, but who wouldn’t be emotional when you suddenly start randomly seeing and hearing things that no one else can? You do feel you are going mad. I wasn’t prescribed the anti-psychotics I needed (because no medication for EUPD, and anyway they thought I wasn’t really hallucinating).

It took a few near misses and hospital stays before a different psychiatrist took me seriously and removed the EUPD diagnosis and correctly diagnosed me with schizophrenia, which is now well managed and it was fortunate I only had the label for under a year as my work/career could have been completely derailed if I’d had to contend with untreated schizophrenia for longer.

I have read up and it’s common especially for women to be misdiagnosed with it and often when they have conditions more commonly associated with boys/men. So there is definitely sexism at work in the medical field. However, as pp with this condition has eloquently explained, it is a very real and debilitating condition to have.