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Very messy DD refuses to tidy

48 replies

Fieldsofgold21 · 24/05/2021 10:39

I’m a bit desperate and hoping for some advice from someone who has been in a similar situation. I think my DD19 may have some MH issues, but she would never discuss and OH disagrees there is anything. We live together, the three of us. One of the issues is that DD is very untidy - leaves piles of stuff around the house: clothes, shoes, bags, laundry, bedding, stuff that’s probably rubbish but never makes it to the bin/recycling. Stuff piled on top of stuff. Stuff on chairs, tables! She won’t respond to requests to tidy (says busy - will do it tomorrow, but tomorrow never comes) and goes mad if we move them - it really stresses her and this comes out as aggression - swearing, banging doors etc. Can be there for weeks or months. It gets me down as the house is always such a mess. I’ve offered to help tidy (no). I don’t know what to do. Does anyone have a strategy that works - no point in shouting - as OH does sometimes - or giving an ultimatum (and if do - not sure what the ultimatum could be). And she’ll just go out and buy more stuff if one of us dares tidy her things into a cupboard for instance. So we end up with MORE!

OP posts:
EverNapping · 25/05/2021 20:52

I would strongly recommend doing some reading up on living with (& caring for) people with autistic spectrum disorders, hoarders and maybe also personality disorders, in particular Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorders, before deciding on how to tackle these issues.

If my parents had, I think our relationships & behaviours would be less damaging and entrenched.

Fieldsofgold21 · 25/05/2021 21:31

Thank you for sharing that @EverNapping - appreciate the insight.

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Saltyslug · 25/05/2021 21:36

Book a day with her well in advance. Plan to declutter rather then tidy. Find a home for everything. Do all her items with her and reward with a takeaway or whatever

Usdyen · 25/05/2021 21:45

Also consider looking at symptoms of ADHD

Fieldsofgold21 · 25/05/2021 21:53

Thank you @Saltyslug - I think the idea of a home for everything is really helpful.

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Fieldsofgold21 · 25/05/2021 21:56

Hi @Usdyen - I don’t know much about ADHD but I think nephew on OH’s side was diagnosed. Any further insight welcome. Thank you.

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crapbuttrue · 25/05/2021 22:06

Anxiety is causing her to blow up. The anxiety can come from either autism or adhd. She has a need to be in control of her environment. This isn't a mental health issue. It's a neurodiversity issue. You need to do some reading around the subject. Also google Pathological Demand Avoidance.

Fieldsofgold21 · 25/05/2021 22:16

@crapbuttrue
Anxiety is causing her to blow up. The anxiety can come from either autism or adhd. She has a need to be in control of her environment.
Thank you.

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Wegobshite · 25/05/2021 22:30

Honestly this is how she is she is very unlikely to change at her age .
Its most likely that her stuff - “rubbish & mess” to you comforts her that’s why she likes it around and visible for her to see it reassures her and keeps her calm
She then gets aggressive when you start to try and move it . She takes it personally
Honestly it really won’t get better only worse no matter what you do this is who she is and who you live with .
You may have stood a better chance when she was younger but as an adult it’s highly unlikely she will change
You say she is planning to travel well I would encourage that, hell I would give her a bloody round the world ticket- one fucking way 😂 and then move to a tiny 1 bed flat

My neighbours just been evicted and he had long term MH issues along with hoarding and being a nasty bastard - actually sounds a bit like your daughter with her aggressiveness over possessions as that’s what he was like
His family tried many times to clear his house and he would turn the air blue you could hear him in the next street .

The amount of shit and crap and rubbish that came from a standard two bed terrace was unreal it took days to clear it with teams of his family working every day to throw stuff on to skips and flat back truck
He wasn’t allowed to be there ( legally due to the nature of his crime ) and it was just as well as I honestly think he would have murdered or physically hurt someone who was throwing out his precious rubbish and it really was rubbish

Fieldsofgold21 · 25/05/2021 22:40

@crapbuttrue Just Googled PDA. Hmm ... 🧐

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Nanalisa60 · 25/05/2021 23:05

I totally agree she might need to control her environment, but unfortunately in Doing so she is controlling your environment!!. I would stick to my guns and as I said offer to help organise and declutter her stuff, also maybe you could say that when it’s all organised maybe you could get her room decorated the way she would like it. But the rest of the house is not going to be covered in her stuff. Also why don’t you look at Marie Kondo videos on Netflix or YouTube together. Sometimes people can change there control methods, from being unorganised to organise.

mibbelucieachwell · 25/05/2021 23:26

I'm sorry I don't have an easy answer to this, but you aren't helping her long term development by allowing her to live in a guddle like this. At some point she'll probably be in a live in relationship and she'll feel less stressed if she doesn't have to hunt for her stuff and look at clutter all the time. She wouldn't be able to live like this if you were in a cramped or crowded home.

crapbuttrue · 25/05/2021 23:27

@Nanalisa60 I think there's more to this than Marie Kondo can sort out....

Cocogreen · 25/05/2021 23:43

My daughter was the same from about 16 to when she moved out at 20.
She had undiagnosed general anxiety disorder and depression.
I wish I had understood better at the time.
Fortunately she confined the chaos to her ( large) bedroom.
Treating her like a seven year old with punishments as some here suggest is cruel ( we didn't although we had rows and I got frustrated).
Negotiate that her room or rooms are her own territory and you won't interfere but the rest of the house can't have her overflow.
Also offer to help if she wants it but don't push it. Get a referral and a diagnosis.
Ten years later my daughter is a married professional with no issues like this, still on medication when she needs it.

Graphista · 26/05/2021 00:29

Yes you’re right - this is not a recent thing

I knew it wouldn't be

Your oh lack of support means she feels conflicted and confused - it's not helping her at all you both not being on the same page and certainly not his blowing hot and cold on the matter

His parenting sounds as if it leaves much to be desired!

If he doesn't want "she has to move out" to be a sanction then you must TOGETHER agree on others, tell her clearly what they are, and stick to them - it's the ONLY way to be effective.

She is an ADULT mh issues or not, in the near future she is going to have to manage her own home inc keeping it sanitary and tidy for health and safety reasons if nothing else. She's also going to have to manage her own finances.

Our job as parents isn't to rescue them from their flaws, but to support them to become capable, independent adults who can live alone and manage all that this requires.

Ideally this starts at a young age, I raised dd alone from she was a toddler and straight away she was expected to help out - at an age appropriate level and standard. So starting with putting her toys away and her dirty clothes in the hamper with me at the end of each day.

Then as she got older she gradually did more and more independently, quite honestly by the time she was 14 while emotionally she wouldn't have been ready, practically speaking she could have managed our home alone for between a week and a month

I did/do notice that other parents have not taken the same approach. The first time I really noticed this was as a mature student at uni for the second time. A large number of the 18/19 year old students were very unprepared for living away from home. They struggled with basics like laundry, cooking, budgeting... because their parents simply hadn't bothered to prepare them. I was alerted to one house share group having difficulties paying their rent (I was a student rep and so was often approached about this kind of thing) all the students in this house share were the younger end of the year and had mostly been privately educated. Turns out the reason they'd no money for rent was because they had been living on expensive (not even usual student type cheap) takeaways - and they hadn't even been clubbing together to get them so they'd each order a huge amount they couldn't possibly eat in one go and they weren't even saving the leftovers they were throwing them out that night - because nobody had taught them how to save/store/reheat leftovers. I helped them (at their request) create a sensible budget, I also made them a notebook of basic, cheap, easy recipes that they could batch cook and freeze or would feed the whole house in one go - they were even doing things like they each had their own bottle of ketchup, carton of milk etc rather than having a kitty and getting basics out of that. They'd also been shopping for basics out of the expensive corner shop rather than going to the supermarket - that was literally across the road! They knew nothing of yellow labels or seasonal shopping etc. I actually really enjoyed working with them on this and they got a kick out of finding bargains and leaning to cook and do laundry properly etc

I would strongly recommend assertiveness training for you both - incredibly useful skill I was taught as part of nurse training (first bout of uni) as at that time I was painfully shy and would have been a total walkover for aggressive staff and patients.

Perhaps also a parenting course? Or read up on parenting teens/young adults? I've done my share of that. Dd and I went through a difficult phase just before she moved out which is normal but can be very upsetting.

Speaking as someone with mh issues of my own (ocd, agoraphobia, depression, anxiety, phobias) clarity - especially clear boundaries REALLY helps. This is actually something I'm working on more myself with a therapist at the moment. Bit trickier as I'm having to both set myself boundaries AND enforce them - feels a bit "split personality" at times. Timetables help too - reasonable ones of course. "Sort this whole room out by tomorrow or else" is of course just setting her up to fail but "within the week I want all your stuff that doesn't belong there out of the living rooms and properly stored" reasonable.

Hoarding is possible (I struggle with this myself) as is ocd or similar conditions where control and order are highly desired. But there are ways of managing these there are workarounds.

Compromise to a degree too. My dd is a complete slob! Definitely not her mothers daughter Grinbut my rule was as long as it was limited to her room and there were no biological agents growing in there then whatever just keep the door closed - sounds simple but with my ocd it definitely wasn't!

What is the storage like in her room - does it work for how she is? Or is it to you and oh taste but not especially practical?

Eg dd used to drive me nuts with not hanging clothes up, it then emerged she couldn't hang them up (this was because of a disability she has which we didn't know at the time) because after she'd put 2 or 3 items on hangers and in wardrobe her wrists and elbows were hurting. So...got rid of wardrobe and got a big chest of drawers instead which she could manage more easily. Ditto the under bed storage she found it hard when it was full to pull it out/put it back so got her the kind on wheels which was much easier.

Find solutions where you can

Anxiety is causing her to blow up.

I agree - I do the same so does dd

That's the point at which relaxation/breathing/grounding exercises are useful as is one or both parties walking away - and for walking away have a hard rule of NOT following and pestering someone who is walking away - give them their space

adhdpunchbag · 26/05/2021 05:39

Great advice @Graphista

YellowMonday · 26/05/2021 06:49

Depression? Inability to clean and living in mess is a key sign.

I would advise professional help is a non-negotiable. You will agree to not touch her room, but any mess outside this space will be bagged up and disposed of, while she works through this.

YellowMonday · 26/05/2021 06:52

I do the opposite - my anxiety shows itself through cleaning tendencies. As in cleaning for hours each day, even to the extent of scrubbing window seals with a toothbrush at 1am.

When this gets called out by my loved ones, my first reaction is to be defensive (not aggressive). But from previous therapy, I know this means it's time to check in with my therapist.

Digestive28 · 26/05/2021 07:01

Maybe present it as a shared problem. You live together and she needs to be a decent housemate - it will not go down well if she leaves stuff all over hostels when travelling - so you can try and understand the cause and find solutions together but be clear it is an issue and needs solving. Her future housemates will be a lot less tolerant then you

Notagain20 · 26/05/2021 07:06

I would suggest you look at building your assertiveness, OP, as you mentioned backing down when your dd reacts and when your oh reacts - you should be able to have your say and not give in just because they have a strop or try to argue about it. If they both know that you don't stick to your guns when they kick off, nothing will change.

Mental health dif might be a factor for your dd, but even so you need to develop your assertiveness both to be a good role model for her and to give clear limits and boundaries, so she knows where she stands.

Fieldsofgold21 · 26/05/2021 13:23

Wow, so many more great replies, advice and insight - thank you (spec mention to @Graphista for such a detailed reply). I’ve been driving so done a lot of thinking and feel much clearer now re what is going on and what I have to do. Not sure how successful I’ll be training OH, but I’ll certainly be clear, calm, kind, strong and assertive myself. Our family is not in a good place (as many of you will have guessed, there are other things too, mainly controlling behaviour, which are very hard to live with). I can’t broach the MH thing with her at the moment, as that wouldn’t go down well (and OH will say he doesn’t agree), but I’d like to think I can work towards that. I want her to be happy and nice to be around. And as safe as possible when she travels.

OP posts:
Graphista · 26/05/2021 15:02

@YellowMonday my sympathies - that used to be my response too (unsurprising with ocd) the point at which I spent 3 days solid doing nothing BUT cleaning I knew I had to get help. I mean literally no sleep, no eating, barely drinking - just cleaning. I couldn't stop.

You don't need to broach the mh as a major issue as yet, baby steps, there are ways to broach this subject that are indirect you can google this for ideas.

My own dd was and is very resistant to this.

Her main argument is that she hasn't seen the help available help me v much but she doesn't remember what I was like at my worst as she was either very young or not around (at one point I was so ill she had to be in foster care with a relative for a short time) not my proudest moment, but unfortunately was necessary as I was barely functioning at this point.

But then a friend suggested it to her (yep the old "what do parents know?! But my friends they make sense" palaver) and she finally went and opened up to gp and was put on medication that helped and had some therapy.

She now has tools she can use when she feels her anxiety getting the better of her.

Definitely go down the route of making all your lives easier so that you all live together compatibly and in a friendly way. Pps are right housemates and especially roommates while travelling and hostel managers etc will not pull their punches! They'll tell her straight "clean your shit up or get out"

Not preparing her for that isn't doing her any favours at all

Maybe that is the point you can make/work from with your oh?

That you need to prepare her for a world that won't allow for her issues and will be far more blunt and lacking in empathy than you both can be.

That you both need to work together to help her become someone who can manage their space and their life in such a way as she can have a great time travelling/living away from home? So she can get the most positive experience possible?

Fieldsofgold21 · 26/05/2021 15:58

Thank you - all makes perfect sense. I suspect DD knows she’s a bit ‘different’ at times (eg she hates to be touched) and at some point may be open to more support.

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