Depression or Anxiety? How can I tell/is it important?

[VictorianCastles]

Name changed for this to write openly.

I have always struggled with my mood/mental health. Despite a very successful career, and two smalls under 5, it appears clear to me that childhood trauma (volatile parental break up, fairly volatile mum, and hard-wired sense of flight-or-fight childhood) results in episodes of what I have always labelled depression.

I have recently sought to tackle this. As in take concrete time out of FT work and 1 yr old and 5 yr old to access CBT via Mind Matters (have tried counselling too previously for 26 weeks, but nothing works as wonderfully for me as CBT) - have a regular Mindfulness practice, and am going through the Sleep Station insomnia programme on NHS referral.

But the MInd Matters CBT which is helping unpack childhood issues and wiring is leading me to think that my experiences are more close perhaps to anxiety. Wondered if talking aloud here might help -

1. First off, sleep maintenance insomnia. Regular wakings at 2-3 am for the rest of the night - intruded by thoughts of largely horrific "what if" scenarios. Yesterday for example - went for lovely sunny walk by river with family, so intrusive thoughts at night were "what if 1 year old DD fell into river and drowned".

1. Second - a tendency for physical suffering when in a state of stress. Aching, heavy arms. Nausea. Spasms of nausea when panicking. Heavy, aching body. Actual physically sensate experience of proper pain.

1. Third - a "whackamole" experience. I can go from worrying about X - to momentary relief and physical sense of relief washing over when X resolved - to 10 mins later - Y - then fixating (With pain, nausea etc) on Y for the time Y may take to resolve. Currently X was one aspect of a house move - which has resolved nicely - and within 10 mins - Y has emerged to be 1 year old's awful atopic eczema and swollen lymph nodes.

1. Now this is NOT about the 1 year old. Not about the house. I understand perfectly well that reassurance-seeking fuels the process. So I am preventing myself from asking for reassurance about house move, mortgage or eczema or lumps and bumps. I know this as I had awful health anxiety for 2 years in my 20s.

1. A hyper-sensitive nature. So much as a (perceived) terse email or (perceived) shortness in reply can floor me.

The CBT is really fantastically helping revisit my childhood in such productive ways and understand what the 5 yr old, 10 yr old, 15 yr old and 18ur old little girl and young woman went through and how to re wire things.

But I am thinking - is it not depression after all? Is it anxiety? Is it both?

And given that currently my suffering is at such a peak despite talking therapies - might something like Beta Blockers help to at least take the edge of and help sleep or just calm my body down? At this rate I am going to convince myself that the bank giving us our new mortgage is going to find us bankrupt (mad, i know) and that 1 year old DD is severely diseased.

this is not good for anyone of course. Particulalry I must say, DD is generating over the top reactions from me. I was devastated when she had chicken pox - and today nursery called to see if she had slept okay as she has been crabby and teething - and I nearly had a heart attack thinking they are calling with awful news. I never had this with DS - and I am not sure why I feel like this about her.

So - needing to address this. Is this anxiety you think wise MNers? Will beta blockers aid my arsenal of tools?

Also to add - maybe irrlevant. But my mum was enormously volatile growing up, constantly tearful and would take it out on me. Entire girlhood was replete with me seeking "mother figures" in teachers and aunts etc right til I left the country. Relationships with parents are all fine now. In fact have v much missed seeing them as half the world away (Thanks covid).

Having DS caused me no issues.

But having DD a year ago - amidst COVID first lockdown has unleashed this in me. Where - basically - DD isnt able to get a slight temperature without me googling awful illnesses, and where I am beset - including in my sleep - by losing her. Poor thing has had various issues with horrendous eczema, chicken pox which was awful (Thanks to DS who gave it to her), constipation, this and that.

But it is like - you mention "your DD has a runny nose" - and somthing goes mental in my mind.

Is there a connection to me and my mother related awful experiences I wonder....

You may have both conditions. I have been diagnosed with anxiety with depression. It could be that you need a two pronged approach to tackle both issues. It's really good that you are finding CBT beneficial for your mental health.

Are you on any medication to tackle your symptoms? I'm sorry if I missed that in your posts. I definitely think it's worth talking to your GP about beta blockers. I take them and they do help me to manage the physical symptoms of anxiety, but they don't take the symptoms away completely.

Regarding sleep, have you tried white noise? It really helps me to tune out my anxious thoughts at night. There are lots of apps you can try, I like Sleepa. I have also recently bought a white noise machine to use in the bedroom, which is excellent.

Thank you for taking the time :) Yes I use a white noise box which is great. I have no trouble falling asleep - but regrettably i wake at 2 am and that is it. There's no going back. My spouse has removed my phone from me now at night as I was just going and getting wound up reading the news at 2 am and he has also disconnected the TV to prevent specks of lights - but ultimately - its my thoughts.

No medication yet but was talking to a friend about his acute anxiety and he definitely praised the beta blockers a lot and said it helps his body calm down and I am wondering if worth a try.

Currently - for example - I am preparing for a high level meeting - and I am simultaneously oscillating between 1) I am unsuited for my work role and my appintment was a mistake and embarrassment 2) DD has a severe illness and is only a matter of time before it is diagnosed and 3) our house move is about to fall through on some complex legal ground as yet unknown to me.

My arms are heavy with ache and pain, nausea is acute. Surely this isn't right and surely - some form of medical support - like the beta blockers - may take the edge off?

Beta blockers are absolutely worth a try. With some anti-depressants it is recommended that you take them at night as they help with sleep. For example, I take Mirtazapine at night. Before that it was often taking me hours and hours to get to sleep as I just couldn't switch my brain off. I was quite often still awake at 3 or 4 in the morning.

I think CBT alongside medication would be most beneficial for you. Do you feel able to speak to your GP about starting medication? Your GP may also be able to prescribe something to help you with the nausea you are experiencing.

I hope that the prep for your meeting goes well. It is so hard to deal with such obtrusive thoughts and I really sympathise with you.

Thanks so much and yes I have indeed booked a GP appointment but it is in about two weeks time. Have never had antidepressants but I think I’m definitely going to ask for the beta-blockers to give it a go and must start somewhere I suppose... but yes the CBT also well worth picking up as I’m making such incredible progress and so many things in my past and my childhood and formative years are falling into place and I’m having all these a-ha moments

You sound exactly like me, I’ve really been thinking about my childhood and relationship especially with my Mum recently as I’m going through a messy divorce. I’m on propranolol for BP and anxiety but it’s the insomnia that’s awful. I’ve tried mertrazapine and it made me feel awful the next day, I was also referred for CBT but I got a trainee who was lovely but just kept telling me what CBT was, yes I know what it is as you’ve told me for the past 7 weeks!! The thought of going back to GP fills me with dread as think I’d been 6 or 7 times to get to that point 2 hrs ago

Oh sounds so hard. The insomnia I totally get - it’s like you know you need the sleep so desperately but it’s so hard to get some sleep. I can feel the anxiety in my body - I feel physically exhausted.

Hearing you also about the childhood stuff. Our childhood wires us in ways that are so set in stone that’s it taken me 3.5 decades to spot the patterns.

Hard to see now as I’m currently fixated on a swollen lymph node on DD but I think the reason I am getting so absolutely unable to cope with the fear of something happening to hear is because she reminds me of vulnerable, small, little me - who was unprotected and Unsheltered and alone and petrified. And I desperately want to protect her.

But I know I need to stop obsessing this way and about everything. I am going to ruin my career and home life and my body this way.

Hang in there x