Does everyone have a sense of self?

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

I've been having some counselling, had a kid who was chronically and seriously unwell when he was little (fine now), another who had a serious mental health crisis last year (improving now) and I'm married to a man who is emotionally unavailable - so I thought I'd better have a bit of input because I was a bit overwhelmed.

She has pointed out that I don't answer about questions about me, I only answer with examples of what I do. She says things like "what do you do to honour yourself?" and I have no idea what she means. "what do you do that is just for you?" and I have no idea - I am really only able to answer in terms of how I fit around other people, the useful things I do or provide for other people.

I really like the counsellor, she has been very helpful with processing lots of the things that happened - but, she keeps pushing me to have things that I do just for me and I draw a complete blank. I am totally stumped by what she means. I've read Brene Brown and what not and never "got it" because they warble on about stuff that, frankly, sounds self indulgent.

I have no ego, no real sense of my own value as an individual. I do think I have a value, it's not that I feel worthless or that I am useless, I've not got a lack of self esteem or symptoms of depression or anxiety. I can definitely understand the negative concepts and I don't feel they apply to me - but, she has noticed that I answer in terms of what I am to other people, not from within.

Is this weird, or is that I just don't quite understand counselling?

I know exactly what you mean . I likewise same as lots of women do very little for myself. Fundamentally I do not care about myself as much as I care about other people and that is my truth. I know most parents would cheerfully die in place of their children but it is more than that. I consider dc in every single decision I make and if it is worse for them at all in anyway I don't do it. From eating the last egg to booking a holiday to spending money on new windows to having lunch with a friend. I wouldn't do any of that if it inconvenienced dc in any way. I am told this is not normal! Some people apparently do what suits them and others fit in around it. I have high self esteem. I am a valuable person. I do this because nothing makes me as happy as dc being happy. So if dc wants the last egg I would be less happy if I ate it. I could spend money on new windows but I would be happiest to give it to dc for a house deposit. Dc adult by the way. Bonkers isn't It?

YES! That's it, thank you!

She has been getting me to think about my marriage, which is passable but not hugely satisfying. She wants me to consider why I'd stay in a marriage that is not bringing me deep joy - and i just think "well, because life isn't like a film" and there is a cost to my kids (teens) if I left, and my dissatisfaction of their dad (who is objectively disappointing, but a good man) does not outweigh the benefits of him being in their daily life. It would be so selfish to leave him, I'd be putting my needs above those of four other people.

I do know that I'd be happier living on my own - it's not that it's good enough to stay more that it's far from bad enough to leave.

I'm not a surrendered wife, I'm more intuitive about their needs and not at all about my own.

I'm not convinced that this is a good way to live, though. I really should be able to say "this is what I want", when all I am absolutely clear about is what I definitely don't want.

I'd never noticed it about myself and I agree, it does seem a bit bonkers.

It's about empowerment - the ability to yes when you want to say yes, no when you want to say no and to prioritise self-love - as you can only love others as much as you love yourself, therefore the more you love yourself and the stronger this energy is around you - the more your family especially your children will heal too.

I can do the "no", I'm really good at saying "no thank you" now - it's taken me til I was 40 and I'm now nearly 50 and have the hang of it.

I don't feel damaged by this. But, I hadn't thought about it as an empowerment issue. Interesting, thanks.

Such an interesting post! When I first had some counselling I wasn’t able to name feelings ..if the Counsellor asked me something I would say “I think I feel...” or “I don’t know what I feel...” It was only when she pointed it out to me that I realised.

My Counsellor thought that because I had many years caring for others: I had been a parent for 28 years and a Foster Carer for ten years. She thought I had put everyone else first so that when it came to me, I wasn’t someone I had thought about often, if at all! My thoughts and feelings rarely featured in my life, it was always about everyone else.

In fact I found people to be quite self indulgent if they spoke about themselves too much, without referring to anyone else. It felt completely self centred to me.

It sounds as though you accessed counselling due to those people close to you, your two children having difficulties, one with a chronic illness and one having had a mental health crisis. In addition to that your husband being emotionally unavailable. Counsellors, within their work, try to bring the focus back to you as it is you who came to seek support and you are the most important person in your life.

Your responses do not come from your inner self, they are coming from other people’s perspectives and what you mean to other people. This does not appear to be a problem as you admit you have no problems with self esteem or symptoms of depression or anxiety. You also recognise negative thought processes.

Do you think it might just take some practice to get you to think about your own self concept and who you you are? Counsellors use the Johari Window which is that you can divide yourself into four: one quarter is what you and others know about you, one quarter is what only you know about you, one quarter is what others know about you but you don’t and the final quarter is what you nor others know about you!!

It takes practice and quite a lot of thinking to work it all out.
Good luck, let us know how it goes 🌺

What if it was more like what things give you the most joy, or what sparks joy?

Thanks, Crisps yes, that is really helpful, thank you.

The selfishness of putting yourself above others is incomprehensible to me, but I think my counsellor is right, to not have any idea about my own needs as a person is a bit odd.

I've been thinking about the basics - I think I'm a bit stuck at "safety needs" at Maslow's hierarchy. I lived with the threat of my child dying for years, and I coped with that really well by focusing on what he needed. I never panicked, I was always able to concentrate on him, but once he was better I had a period of about two years of peculiar anxiety. I didn't feel anxious at all, I didn't have intrusive thoughts or rumination and I didn't think my mood was low - but I'd not sleep for three days, was physically unable to settle, and startled if I heard beeping (I think that was because of the interminable beeps in HDU), and that was linked to some really very unpleasant flashbacks. GP sent me to psychiatry who said I wasn't anxious but that this is a common response to long term trauma in parents of very poorly children - you don't have time to be anxious when he isunpredictably poorly, but, once he is better then your body feels the threat

My husband is probably autistic. He was unable to manage anything hospital related - so I did it all alone. Assumptions were made about me ( I was married, able to self advocate, clean, calm, sober, organised ) because I presented as a person who had a good support network - but, I did not at all. Eventually that came to a head because I made a serious error of judgement and delayed taking my son to hospital, simply because I was trying to juggle too many balls while running on adrenaline.

I did my job, He is now well and has not got any negative memories of being unwell, which amazes me. Kids are so resilient, he only recalls getting lego and the clown doctors and time with me.

I'm no psychologist, but, I wonder if maybe having 15 years of fear, of being stuck at MAslow's safety affected my bond with my husband. He let me down, if I'm honest I'm really angry with him that he opted out of the hard stuff. I "get" that, if he's autistic, he just can't - but, the responsible thing to do would be to be assessed and he refuses to do that. So, I wonder if my self esteem is unattainable because I am in a marriage which is damaged because I'm still a bit on high alert for my son? My daughter is less of a worry, she has a diagnosis and is responding to medication and, a year on, is less vulnerable. It's been hard, but shorter lived and her trajectory of recovery is more predictable. Plus, it's going well while my son threw curve ball after curve ball.

• I wasn’t someone I had thought about often, if at all! My thoughts and feelings rarely featured in my life, it was always about everyone else.
• this makes a lot of sense. I'll have a look at the Johari Window, thank you.

Spiky yes, I am trying hard to think about that. I get pleasure from things and a sense of satisfaction, but, I'm not sure that I get actual joy.

My kids bought me a plant I wanted for mothers day, and that gave me joy - I'd only mentioned it in passing and they clubbed together and ordered one to be delivered to the house, which was really so thoughtful that it made me a bit misty eyed. So, I get joy from a baby cheese plant.

I like wildlife, actually, I get a real, tangible sense of joy if I find something rare of spot something unusual.

That's not much, is it?

Maybe my mood isn't as good as I think it is.

Thanks, I'll have a thin about this. Marie Kondo definitely doesn't spark joy in me, just makes me feel like a total slattern...

I think that sounds wonderful, being around nature is so calming.