I think DH might be having a breakdown - please help!

[TwilightPrincess]

On Tuesday night we had a huge fight and were still up talking into the early hours of Wednesday. DH said he was too tired for work in the morning and called in sick (very unusual for him even after a completely sleepless night).

On Wednesday he told me about some problems he was having at work, which at first just sounded like silly issues and I thought he was having a moan to get things off his chest and explain why he'd been so irritable lately. Then he broke down crying. I've never seen him shed more than the odd tear in our 12 year relationship and I was shell-shocked.

We spoke all day while the DC were at school and he's obviously really distressed. I've been ill for a couple of years and he's had to shoulder a lot of the responsibility of family life and we've also got financial problems and he's been advised to go bankrupt.

Everytime he tries to speak he covers his face and sobs .

He saw the GP today and I'm really angry about the way he was treated. He's on holiday from work next week and he wanted a certificate starting from yesterday because he needs a break and cannot face going back tomorrow. The GP said she would be doing him a dis-service by providing one and said that if he really couldn't face work he would have to get a self-certificate. DH is convinced he won't be payed and is literally terrified of this meaning that bankruptcy is unavoidable, we won't be able to meet the bills this month etc. I know he won't go in tomorrow anyway because he just can't go into work like this, but I'm so worried about the effect this is having on him. He seemed to take it as a personal insult that the GP wouldn't sign him off - as if she'd decided he was a fraud. I must say that I think she was very unfair, he was crying in her surgery FGS!

I feel so guilty as I haven't been there to listen to him, let alone support him because I've been so involved in my own health. I don't know how to help him - everything I suggest is wrong. I think he should have accepted AD's from the GP today but he's convinced himself that they affect other medication he is on - I'm sure the GP would look into this but he won't have it, and I think it's just because he feels ashamed of having problems with mental health. He's reluctant to talk about real problems at the best of times, but at the moment all he wants to discuss is petty quibbles like what time his colleagues have their breaks and other things that shouldn't concern him at work.

Does anyone have any advice, and does anyone know what to do regarding the GP? I'm worried that he won't be ready to go back to work at the end of his holiday but will refuse to go back and see her. Could he arrange to see a different doctor at the practice or is that against ethics?

Sorry this is so long.

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I'm afraid I can't offer any practical advise, beyond stating the bleeding obvious. Your dh is stressed up to the hilt, and little things can loom large when you're in that state.

On the specifics, your dh can see any GP he likes within his local surgery. I get a different one every time ... it's the same for everyone.

One last point. I can't help thinking that if a woman was crying at a GP's surgery, she'd have got a lot more help than your poor dh.

he ought to go and see another doctor. He can take tomorrow off, have his holiday and make sure he sees a different GP towards the end of next week to get a certificate.

I wonder if he would be amenable to counselling of some sort? unfortunately there is generally a long wait on the nhs, although there may be a CPN at your surgery he could talk to?
I don't think it's the end of the world to refuse anti-depressants- again, maybe a chat with a different doctor would help with that anyway. Would he be better with a male GP? there's absolutely no reason why he shouldn't make an appt with whichever doctor at the surgery he feels most comfortable talking to.

I think from your point of view all you can do is be there for him. LIsten to him- what appear to be petty quibbles might be huge to him right now. I often found when I was at my worst depressed state that there was nothing major triggering it- it would be the build up of many, many tiny things. Each may be relatively insignificant, but all added up together I just couldn't cope.
So listen to him, and if you think you can then chat about ways that maybe he can overcome these things. every little helps.

I'm assuming you're already seeking help about the bankruptcy etc etc?

you can try to get him to see another GP - he can see whoever he wants at the surgery

I think he needs some counselling urgently

I would ring the Samaritans - they may be able to sign post you to some good advice
Also, you can ring your GP on your own behalf and explain the situation - again they will be able to point you in the direction of organisations who can help you

link here to MIND a mental health charity

they may have a branch near you

Well this sounds like a chapter of my life ver recently Twighght - I am so sorry you are both going through this. All I can say is that your dh is, as distant as it may seem, now on the road to recovery. He has broken down and opened up, been to see the gp etc. The next steps of his life will be to confront and get better. It may take a little while but he IS on that path now.

I haven't got much time right now but I just wanted to add that afaik he can only self certificate for up to 7 days and then the gp should consider a sick not. He will get stat. sick pay during this time. It is worth phoning up about all your bills now and informing them of your situation - they might accept reduced payments for a little while.

My dh has had very similar breakdown and depression over the last couple of months - it is hard for him but it is bloody hard for me too. I can empathise with what you might be going through. My email is spellmas @ bt internet . co . uk (without the spaces obviously) if you need to chat.

It sounds like a depressive illness and he should go back and see the GP.

What you say about 'everything I suggest is wrong' sounds like part of the illness - the negative thinking is so entrenched that he can only see drawbacks in everything. That includes not wanting to take ADs The recent irritability fits with it.

I agree with RS - it sounds urgent. Can you go with him to see a GP? What you say about never having seen him cry in 12 years is extremely important - the GP needs to hear it. You can ask to see a different GP in same practice and say it's urgent.

If the GP suggested ADs she was obv. thinking along those lines and they will have some understanding of why people resist taking ADs to begin with.

All the best

agree with eemie - my dh first went to gps in may and kept refusing ad's until August - 4 wks later he laughed, he relaxed, i saw a glimpse of my husband that i had forgotten about...
It takes time and a lot of patience on your part... mn is here to listen, you need to talk too!

Thanks so much for all your replies. I'm sorry it's taken me all evening to respond but I didn't want to risk opening this with him still up and about.

I think the little problems seem so important at the moment because he thinks they define who he is. He's being left out at tea-breaks at work and he's hurt, but I think it's happening because his behaviour is so edgy and he's difficult to make conversation with at the moment. I don't know what to say though. Telling him to 'cheer up' is obviously inappropriate, agreeing that his work-mates are all b*stards seems counterproductive but I can't tell him he's imagining it because he knows he isn't . He's been mentioning these things for a few weeks and I'm ashamed to say that I've snapped at him and told him to stop being childish, reminding him that I hear enough playground talk from the DCs without him starting. Shit, I feel terrible about that now.

I thought there was a medical etiquette that had to be followed once treatment had started, with regards to switching practitioner because you're unhapy with their advised treatment? I'm not sure whether this would be an issue here as he's only been told to come back if he's still feeling low next week. Does that count as a course of treatment? If not then he could probably ask to see a male doctor and avoid her from now on - thanks for the tip fingerwoman. I'm even more cross now as I've just filled in his certificate and it's only any good after the 4th day of sickness anyway so completely pointless seeing as he'll be on holiday by then anyway.

Work are not being helpful. His boss called today and left a message saying that he had to phone in. I told him not to because I know this is going to get worse if he cries on the phone and besides, it was actually his day off today so I don't think they have a right to demand to speak to him. He did follow the correct procedure yesterday by calling in before work began and having a message passed to his boss. Today's phone call from his boss was followed by several phone calls from colleagues and then lastly from the union rep. The union rep has said that he should have called in today (I think he probably doesn't realise that it was DH's day off) and now he's worrying about that, beliving that I've made everything worse by telling him not to answer his phone. I'm feeling pretty pissed off at the moment. I really don't care about whether he gets paid or not - it's not the end of the world if we are late with bills and it's a drop in the ocean compared to the financial mess we are in anyway.

I would like him to try ADs because he needs more than time off work. I think he needs some help to stop him fretting like this. In the longterm I'd like him to have some counselling but I'd be very surprised if he would take it even if it was on offer.

MBPF - I'm really sorry to hear your experience, but thanks for sharing.

eemie - I did suggest going with him today but he said it would make him cry if I was there. He cried anyway, so maybe he'll let me come in next time. I think he's afraid that I'll take over and he'll feel like he's being protected by me - I know that there are issues here regarding how he sees himself as a man at the moment.

Thank God for MN. It's such a relief to pour all this out.

SO sorry your having such a tough time really sad to read all of this. It must be terribly difficult for yo to watch your man going through it all, and feel so helpless. my Dh has bouts of depression which cause him to just hide from the world.

He was poorly with another illness last year, which triggered his depression again. He was really unwell on top of it. he refused to call work after the first week.He turned off his company phone too. I'd also never seen him cry until this point. it was heartbreaking to watch.
my lovely strong man, who took care of so much, was like a different person.

His company ended up sending HR round to take the company car back etc...I managed to persuade them not to and talked to his manager, luckily i did. He had only told them he'd be off for a week, and never called back

I managed to keep his job for him, basically. they told me they wouldn't have 'minded' if only they had known the situation, and that he'd be off for so long. It was 6 weeks before he was able to go back between illness and depression. (then i found out we were having out dd, which brought about a load more issues but wont tell you about that now!)

So in your case, I think its probably important that they do, know that he's unwell and will be off for a bit or else they can start disciplinary procedures, which would make things worse for him... not because he is off sick, but because they dont know that he is. they also dont need to know the reason why at this stage, just that he is and maybe for a few weeks.

as for that GP, what a terrible consultation that was. definitely suggest he goes back to another gp in the same practice. he is allowed to ask not to be given her at his appointment,

As for ADs they may well help but do take a long time to really kick in. up to 6 weeks generally. but worth starting for sure.

seems you will have to take over being the strong one for a bit. just give him lots and lots of love and support, and listen when ever he needs to talk. thats all i could do, and he tells me it helped more than anything to know that he was still loved so much and that he wasnt a failure.

good luck with it all really hope he can get some help with it all.

There's no medical etiquette to stop him seeing another GP today. His resistance to you going along is part of the problem too - but it would help your dh if you could give the GP your perspective, which indicates how serious it is.

In many workplaces, including mine, you need a medical cert if your sick leave merges into your holiday, even by one day. Another reason to go back to GP.

Hope things look up soon

And by the way ADs can start kicking in well before six weeks. Some people start to feel a definite benefit within days.

they cannot work that soon, it not possible, it takes a long time for the levels to build up to be theraputic

however, there is a definite 'placebo' effect reported by many many patients... which in itself can only be a good thing, if it tides you over until the actual medication lasts long enough in your system to work. Any good effect is excellent so all positive, for sure

actually some ad's can start working in 2-3 weeks. they vary

TP- what is his manager like generally? COuld you speak to him and explain the situation? If he's likely to be vaguely sympathetic then I think that's a good way to go. It's going to be best all round if you can keep them in the know and show that he isn't just taking the piss or anything or skiving off.
Or speak to his HR department and explain? Just so that they know the situation.

I hope things start looking up for him (and you) soon. and really don't worry about changing GP, it honestly won't be a problem

its common for an antidepressant effect to be felt after 2-3 weeks, some people may benefit from other effects earlier eg if anxious an ad with sedative side effects may help sleep and take the edge off anxiety

so sorry to hear you're going through this.
My dh also went through similar.
He was already on AD's but one day he just decided that he was leaving.
He only got as far as town I think and rang his siser to say he couldn't get home.
She picked him up in a terrbile state and when he came home he went straight to bed.
We called the doctor and he said he'd had a nervous breakdown and upped his ad's.
He couldn't get out of bed for aout a week but after that things started to get better.
He had counselling and also managed to help himself - little tings like going jogging with a best mate to lift his mood.
He'd always kept his illness well hidden but it had to all coem out - to family, friends and work and because of that he got oads of support.
Now he's off the AD's and truly beleives he will never go to that place again.
Hope our story gives you some hope and encouarages you and him to be open about it - depression is an illness and nothing to be asjhamed off. It is a chemical imablance of the brain and needs treating.

TP - just wanted to give you the perspective of someone who has managed people with undiagnosed depression. If you weren't aware of how he was feeling I suspect his boss and colleagues aren't either. If they just see an irritable person who has been harder to work with who then goes awol they will make all sorts of incorrect judgements. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong regarding when he should have rung in. What matters is that they know what is happening.

I suggest you call in on his behalf (he is not capable of doing so) and agree that you will keep them updated until he is able to do this himself. Unless they are are utter gits they will be more supportive than you imagine. If he has a union rep they must be told what is going on. Unions usually have support and advice for their members going through difficulties and can help smooth his return back to work when he is ready (which may be several weeks).

Financially (I work for a bank) you need to contact all the people you owe money to and explain you are on the verge on bankruptcy. Citizens advice bureau are excellent at providing support in this. There is something called an IVA which is a step beforehand. Most companies don't want to force you into bankruptcy because they won't get any money back (and if you've got kids).

This is loads for you to do I know but yr DH isn't capable of it at the moment - he just needs to focus on getting well.

Good luck

Thanks for all your posts again.

Yesterday was not a particularly good day and I lost my temper with him. We're not used to spending so much time together and holidays generally lead to a row anyway. He's been really clingy over the past few days and I'm finding it difficult to not get irritated. I know this is unfair, but I'd rather vent on here than be a bitch to him.

I feel like I'm being stretched to my limits at the moment, looking after DC and running around after him too. Last night I was up until 3am, not because I was busy but because I was desperate for a bit of time alone with myself.

He works in a really laddish environment, and if you have any time off your banded about as a piss-taker or a wimp. His manager is off sick with stress and also 2 other colleagues at the moment. The boss that has been phoning is a relief manager who won't give a shit about DH's state of mind. DH works for Royal Mail, and with all the industrial action lately, and threat of more, everyone is pissed off and stressed out. I don't think he'll get any sympathy from colleagues or management for going sick at the moment - but then again, I'm basing my assumption on what DH has told me, and I know he's seeing things that aren't there at the moment. The union rep has given up his position as he has been accused of harrassing members who worked during the strike which resulted in 2 members going sick with stress. He is continuing to give advice but understandably won't stick his neck out for anyone. The atmosphere at work is not a supportive one at the moment.

He took his certificate in to work yesterday morning but wouldn't speak to anyone. No-body has phoned since then to my knowledge, although they usually phone on DH's mobile and he may have switched it off. I think it might make things worse for him if I call in and try to explain. I can just imagine him being ribbed mercilessly for hiding behind his wife when he eventually goes back.

He has all the paperwork for bankruptcy and a relative has lent us the fee. He has to fill it out and take it into court though, but he won't. I know this is a taboo, but we are out of other options and every day we are incurring more charges. I don't think an IVA is an option either - CAB didn't think so. The utilities are in my name and I pay monthly. I have enough money coming in to cover them and family will help with food and rent if need be. I know the bankruptcy is the major problem for him but he won't discuss it with me.

He's now saying that he's going back to work after his holiday, but I really can't see him doing it. He gets very stressed about taking time off even under the most understandable circumstances. When I had a miscarriage he took 1 day off but said he was worried that he'd get laughed at for being soft when he returned. I think he generally has problems predicting other peoples reactions and is very, very hard on himself.

Thanks for your support and advice, and for sharing your own experiences.

TP - my sympathies. Money can cause so much heart ache i know. We are about one step from where you are just now, except we have mortgage problems too. It is so stressful - i just wanted to pass on my best wishes. Has your DH been given any meds?

Hi Twilight
Thought I would share as DH has suffered from depression for years and had a major panic attack when I discovered I was pg.
Some advice re depression...
He can deffo see another GP - some are just crap and want to get rid of patients asap so they don't get behind in their busy day. Telling him to get on with it is not a course of treatment anyway.
However, ADs are not for everyone - an incorrect prescription can make depression worse - my DH was given the wrong drugs in his late teens/ early 20s and they actually made him suicidal. He's been off ADs for about five years now and manages to deal with the symptoms.
Here are some lessons we've learnt over the years:
Exercise - regular moderate exercise releases seratonin, which aids depression. Extreme exercise should be avoided as it can release too much seratonin and then you get depressed later on when you "run out". No exercise means too low seratonin - if he stays in bed all day he'll get into a vicious circle. If he can manage a 15 minute walk every day he should find this helps after a few days. Once round the block even should help.
Blood sugar - low blood sugar makes depression/ irritation worse. Is he eating properly? Food high in refined carbs (eg, crisps, white bread, sugary drinks) can cause mood swings and make depression much worse. If you're low on cash you may be having to "cut corners" re food but this could be exacerbating the problem. The GI diet is daft in many ways, but understanding how foods GI rating affect mood will help him to manage his symptoms.
You - it's understandable that you're finding his behaviour frustrating. I was fuming at DH's panic attack when I found I was pg - all I wanted was support and he couldn't give it - I literally felt like punching him.
The best thing is to simply walk away from him for a bit and calm down - if you're trying to comfort someone who won't "let you in" it will get annoying for you - making you lash out - and make them feel guilty, making the panic attack/ depressive feeling worse.
Work - people who have not suffered depression often fail to understand how serious it is. Depression can be very debilitating. It is also a recognised illness so if you can make work aware of the situation and get a decent GP to sign him off then he will deffo be entitled to sick leave - whether they like it or not. You should definitely be calling in for him - he won't be able to face it and probably just wants to hide from the world. Whatever his colleagues think doesn't matter - he could face disciplinary action for not informing about sickness.
Openness - one of the reasons people with depression suffer so badly is because they are often ashamed - but it's actually really common - one in eight people suffer from mental illness at some point in their lives. His workmates sound like idiots but I bet among them there is at least one other person who has suffered from depression. Maybe someone who's a bit quieter than the others, or someone who seems falsely cheery all the time - there may be someone he already knows who can empathise and he can talk to - or someone you know for that matter - be brave and talk about it. Since I met my husband (who is completely open about his depression) I have discovered that at least five of my own friends have suffered from it at one point.
Bankruptcy - I'm not an expert in this area at all, but it sounds like this is one thing you need to make sure happens asap. You may see it as a taboo, but it is a simple financial measure and treating it as such rather than as a big deal may help him to come to terms with going ahead with it. Can you leave the DCs with a relative/ friend and accompany him to the court? That way you know it's been dealt with. Don't take no for an answer on this - you financial future rests on it.
Finally - people with depression usually feel cut off from the world - like they are in a bubble and nothing outside of it - work, friends, partners, kids, is meaningful or real. They feel trapped, and worry that they are going insane and fear they will never recover. They may feel afraid that they may kill themselves, but may also feel the world is better off without them and that they are a waste and a drain on society. This is how your DH is feeling, and I know it's hard to deal with (believe me, my DH drives me crazy sometimes and I just want to slap him bloody hard). However, when you're dealing with him, you need to remember this and show him that you know how he feels. He probably feels completely alone in the world right now - if you can show him you understand and that you're not going anywhere it will help him to come out of it.
Good luck with everything - I really feel for you and hope it all works out.
The key thing to remember is that depression is totally treatable and manageable - and that this low point will not last forever.
Best wishes and lots of hugs
China

LEM - we are lucky that we rent from a housing association, so as well as not having to worry about losing our home, we have the added advantage of a low rent. I'm really sorry to hear that you're struggling financially too. It's really crap, I know.

China, thanks for your very helpful message. I do feel guilty because yesterday I was thinking 'you selfish bastard'. I know that's unfair especially as I've suffered depression too and he was very supportive towards me.

The crying has stopped now, but then he's not talking about problems either. Yesterday I was angry because his behaviour did come across as selfish - making cups of tea without offering me one, going to bed early when we'd planned to watch a DVD together and not even telling me, expecting the DC to stay in their rooms because he wanted to listen to the radio in peace and quiet while he did a jigsaw puzzle . This is unlike him and I was wondering if he was taking advantage of the situation, or at best not helping himself by isolating himself.

His work mates probably aren't that bad and most of the stuff he is getting upset about is probably office banter. There was a joke going round work that they would find him hanging from the girders and he has taken this almost as a request(???) I'm sure they've just noticed that he is stressed and it was a light-hearted (insensitive) joke. No-one would find it funny if he did that, but he's misunderstanding everything. He seems to think that they should all be very supportive and sensitive but he knows it's not that kind of environment. I'm sure he'll get a few well meant slaps on the back when he returns as well as some digs about jumping ship when things got stressful. I don't think anyone really cares that much about why he's not there anyway.

I don't know what I'm going on about here really. I just needed to have a moan in confidence. I'm going to let him do what he wants for the rest of his holiday. If he's not ready to return at the end of it then I'll go with him to the GP and I'll call his boss and explain. I'm hoping that he's just mentally exhausted and that this break from work and responsibility might help him.

Hello again.
I'm sorry you're having such a tough time - but your latest message sounds a lot calmer and more objective than your first - it IS just good to talk about this stuff so don't feel bad about getting it off your chest.
Yes, people with depression do appear selfish. But that's basically because they're feeling this invisible wall between themselves and the rest of the world and don't realise the effect they're having - if you've suffered from depression as well I hope you can remember what it was like and try not to put "normal" expectations on him, however annoying he's being.
I'm not saying let him do everything he wants, but when you're thinking "you selfish bastard" (understandable) just hang on to remembering why he's acting so strangely.
Although, as I said before, it's good to just walk away for a bit and let the moment pass, I do think it's good to try to work with him too. He won't want to talk about his problems yet - he's probably not ready, but you can do a lot by reassuring him frequently that he's worthwhile and needed. He probably won't believe you but positive messages do help chink away at the dull grey armour he's hiding behind - get him to look you in the eye (often the hardest bit but v important to create the connection he's lacking), hold his hand/ stroke his hair, and tell him you love him several times. It may sound a bit Oprah, but repeated messages of love will make him feel a bit better with time.
His workmates sound like they're trying to make light of the situation and cheer him up, but I think you said before (and you were right) that telling someone who's depressed to cheer up just doesn't work. That's why he's seeing everything they say as negative - believe me, if they know he's off sick with depression they'll soon start taking it seriously and shut the f* up about it. You may also get someone approaching him to say they've had similar problems - as I mentioned in my last message.
With kids running around and housework to do and worries about money I know you are feeling stressed, and supporting DH right now probably feels like the straw breaking the camel's back, but do try to get him doing some of the stuff I said earlier - moderate exercise, fresh air and a healthy diet (junk food is the worst for causing mood swings) really do help ease the symptoms - ADs often just mask the symptoms without solving the problem and trigger a relapse when people stop taking them - they should be a last resort imo.
If he's doing slightly isolating things like jigsaws/ radio rather than crying then he is clearly entering the next phase - you are on the road to recovery so hang in there!
Lastly, the bankruptcy thing is probably a big part of what's triggered this and you may find that once it's dealt with and the strikes at RM are resolved a lot of the weight he's feeling on his shoulders will lift.
Good luck!
China