Selfish child?

[Silveryfox]

Do any of you have a chronic long term condition and find that your kids just dont care?

I'm a 47 year old single divorced mum of a 10 yr old boy and I work part time. He is the most loving affectionate child, and so caring about everyone.... except me. I grew up in a house where my parents practiced physical punishment (it was the 70s, 3 levels of physical punishment, plus LOT of shouting, shaming and abandonment used as punishment too) so I swore I would parent differently. Thos is not to say I am a permissive parent - far from it, but I have from the start talked to my son and explained, treated him like a person and not a possession like I've seem some other parents do. I give warnings, and times count downs so he knows consequences are coming etc. I've always listened to him, and as I was bullied and ignored as a person not only by my mother but classmates all through school, college and into work, so I have gone out of my way to be empathetic, be on his side, and defend him.

However, I have some sort of chronic long term exhaustion, some low vitamin levels which I'm attempting to address now as I had no idea about them before last summer, and I was diagnosed with central and obstructive sleep apnea last september which I'm now being treated for. I had to have 3 months off work from Aug-Nov last year and then for some reason went back downhill last weekend, was having problems sleeping on my cpap machine and the exhaustion hit me again so I've been signed off sick again. I struggle to get through the day, but obviously still have to do all my mum duties, look after me and my son, cook, clean etc.

For years now, my son has kicked up a stink if I want to go to tesco or do any sort of supermarket shop or even go into town, unless it's to get something he wants, I also have anxiety and depression and struggle going to large open places like supermarkets so do better when hes with me (everyone says I should go in school hours bug I cant handle going by myself, I feel like everything is pressing down on me, the space etc). I pick him up from school after I finish work, so some days I need to take him with me to a doctors appointment (although I avoid dr appointments if I can - hate going, and I have neglected myself for a long time because of that) or if I have to pop to the local shop to get a fee bits. All I get is complaints and moaning and "fgs mum, WHY do we have to go here?? I just want to go home!!" Etc etc etc etc etc. For his dad and his wife he is the epitome of the one haired angel, polite, respectful, accepts his dads and his wife's authority, despite the fact they treat him like a 5 year old, and isnt allowed any electronics at their house - his only entertainment there is colouring books and reading books, or sometimes they'll watch a film. At my house, I do everything. For him. Everything that I am, everything that I have, everything I earn, all my time, love, what little energy I have, it all goes on him. And the thanks I get? He cannot even allow me to pop to the surgery to pick up a prescription for myself without moaning and making it quite clear he doesmt give a shit about me. If I tell him off, he just says sorry, then the behaviour continues. If I take away phone or playstation privileges he improves his behaviour and is nice to me. So I think hes learned his lesson and deserves them back, and it all starts again. The other day was my birthday, and despite knowing that I know my mum bought the present he gave to me, he tried to tell me he bought it himself with his own money (he has some saved in a bottle in his room). I was really touched at the thought hed done this, and that my mum had just forgotten to tell me. A week later and were chatting and she tells me he told her hed said hed bought it with his own money and when she asked why he did that, he said he was trying to get me to allow him more time on the playstation!! (He's only allowed to play on it mondays, wednesdays and Saturdays but his friends are on their PS's every day). I do have rules, I do have boundaries, I do practice consequences, but with my health the way it is I am sinking. I feel hes turned into a sometimes quite selfish child, but only with me. My health has had a negative effect on our lives the last few years, I've been so exhausted that our oce active life together, going to lots of interesting places has been severely curtailed. Ive tried to make up for it in other ways, but he talks to me and treats me like dirt sometimes and I dont know why OR how to address it. I'm the only one hes like this with. He'd never DARE talk to his father or his wife the way he does to me. They give him chores to di, he dies them. I give him a chore and he makes a huge fuss, then when I dont give in he dies such a bad sloppy job that I dont ask him to do it again. He doesnt even make his own breakfast or straighten his own bed!
His father treated me the same, and I left him because of it and other numerous abusive reasons, after 5 years. It's made me feel even worse about myself than I did before. Just as a last point - I've never had a good relationship with my mum due to how she treated me from a baby, growing up and into adulthood - she is a very passive aggressive person, that I'm only just learning how to deal with in my 40s. When I got old enough to leave home, I couldnt wait to get away - so I'm also worried that this will happen with my son too. I'm feeling very fragile, so please please be gentle with me 😭 TIA

His father treated me the same, and I left him because of it and other numerous abusive reasons, after 5 years

So your son lived in an abusive environment for the first five years of his life? And probably has developmental trauma? And was definitely exposed to abuse for half his life?

That info should have been at the start of your post.

He's ten. He's traumatised. He's had abuse normalised. If you don't address that (and you say you let it slide when he imitates) then how do you expect it to change?

He's a child and he does not have the knowledge or perspective of adults. He has no way to understand his "normal" was wrong and abusive if nobody teaches him. He's not going to magically become aware it's not how other people live or behave, not will be instantly understand and absorb that info when it was his normal for the first half of his existence.

Have you done the Freedom Programme?

Sorry I should have been clearer, I left his father when he was 10 months old. We were together 4 years before my son came along. Precisely because I didnt want him exposed to the way his dad treated me. I worked very hard to be able to have a civil relationship with his dad (after a period of 2 years apart while I started to heal from his abuse). My son has never 3xperienced any sort of negativity between me and his dad, because I kept him away from that 👍

your expectations of a 10 year old are unrealistic.

Oh and he IS aware thats not how to treat people, particularly not his mother - he only behaves that way towards me. If you read my post again, you'll see I say he is an angel for everyone else. They all tell me that. Even his dad. He just has no care for the fact that he treats me like a slave, like a robot with no feelings, even though he knows I'm ill. But yeah, thanks for taking care to read my post properly, where I say all this, and that I'm feeling fragile. All I've done, his entire life is protect him, try to do the best I can for him. I thought if I did better at being a loving mother than my own mum, if I brought him up with respect, he would reciprocate. I have tried so hard to stimulate him, spend time and energy on him, take him interesting and fun places, give him all the things he doesnt get at his dads house, find him clubs etc to direct himself into, to find him a male role model, but guess what? I've not managed it. I came here for some advice and empathy.... how wrong was I??

Honestly, I did read your post. I still think your expecting too much of a 10 year old.
I think (and I genuinely mean this kindly) your own issues are the real problem here.
A 10 year old cannot really fully understand or be responsible for the mental health issues of a parent...nor should there be any expectation to.
Try to find support for yourself elsewhere and allow your 10 year old to be a child, not a carer.

Your son feels comfortable with you so he knows he can push your boundaries.

My son at 18 years old doesn’t understand that I have M.E/C.F.S and he saw how my abusive EX H treated me and you sound like you are going through the same as me.

Personally I think it may also be genetic, if they lack empathy, it is hard if not impossible for them to be empathetic.

I came from an abusive childhood so I chose to parent differently, but I married an aggressive, abusive man like my father.

You are suffering from Complex Ptsd, brought on by ongoing trauma in childhood, research it, hopefully it will help you.

I did a course about parenting teenagers about 5 years ago, it was free at a local school and they gave tips on what to do, see if there’s any courses in your area.

One thing they did say is that children are going into puberty earlier, so you may well have hormones kicking in and that is why he is treating you badly, but being nice to your Ex p and wife.

Check out Kevin the teenager and Perry (Harry Enfield). They were always lovely to each others parents and horrible to their own!

Thanks for your understanding reply. I dont think I'm expecting too much from him to just have him realise that I'm not being unreasonable in asking him to take part in family things. If I had a partner then yeah, but I dont. What's wrong with expecting him to act like hes part of our family?? I'm not asking him to be my carer, just not to give me a hard time for expecting him to take part in our family. I posted this question in the main behaviour/development section and have been torn to shreds. Nowhere did I say I hold him responsible for my problems, or did I say that he should be my carer. I dont want either of those things. I've been made to feel like every other fucker in my life has made me feel. That I dont deserve any respect from anyone, not my family, not my friends, not my partner, and definitely not my son.... despite the fact I say several times that I have brought this child up with respect and a sense of self I was never given. In fact most people, including his father, say I've been tpo soft on him. Now hes starting to get to an age where I think he should start to respect me im wrong for that too. I feel utterly alone in EVERYTHING. I HAVE sought out help for my issues, and us being in the UK people ought to already know how difficult it is to get help until you're hanging from a noose and then its too late. I've been trying to get a proper MH assessment and help since 2013, and STILL im being passed back and forth between CAMHS and Time to Talk. I was supposed to have a phone call from Time to Talk again today, but guess what? They didn't call. Quel surpríse. When I call them I only ever get their answer machine. I've been offered a place on a parenting course AND on a DV recovery course but both are in the middle of the day on weekdays. I cannot attend either because my company doesnt offer a set shift pattern, and I only get one weeks notice of my rota for the following week. Being on your own in a low paid job is not exactly flexible. So, yeah.... basically I'm fucked. And a selfish fucker clearly, and CLEARLY he'd be better off without me as his mum, because obviously my best is not good enough 😭

Fuck the doubters and haters, OP. Stay strong for your own sake, you're doing an amazing job and you deserve so much more from life than the shitty deal you've had so far. Your son is channeling all his insecurity, anger and frustration to you, because he knows deep down you might be the only person in his life who loves him enough to take it and not abandon him. He's not stupid, he knows his dad effectively abandoned him when he was a baby/toddler (that's how it feels to kids when a parent leaves the family home even if they still see them - they can't rationalise, and the core belief about being rejected takes hold). Look into boundaries and how you can set firm ones at various levels of your relationship with him, stick to them even if he acts out or pushes against them, but don't walk away no matter how hard it gets. He'll learn to trust you if you stick to them and stick by him while he tests them. It's bloody hard and you so deserve a decent break but in the meantime reassure yourself that one day you'll be glad you helped to contain all his confusion and resentment despite the negativity. He can't actually be his true self with his dad and the step mother coz they expect him to behave and because he doesn't trust them fundamentally he goes along with their expectations about him being a 'good boy' but it'll leave him with difficult feelings about himself deep down. Whereas with you he wants you to love and accept him in all his messy angry shame until he exhausts it. Then you'll have an unbreakable bond.

I hope CAMHS come through for you both, but I know you're sick of holding your breath

@Silveryfox
PeninsulaPanic has given a really good response.

You are going through a hell of a lot and you really don’t deserve to be ripped to shreds, you have a lot on your plate.

I have only been on Mumsnet 5 months and I posted about my divorce and had some nasty/unhelpful replies.

Your son may have abandonment and rejection issues concerning his father, that’s another reason for him being so nice to him is because he doesn’t want to be rejected again.

You must lay down boundaries. If people are toxic go No Contact with them.
That’s what I had to do with my own family and my Ex narcissistic husband. They were ruining my mental health.

Stay strong 💪💐

Thanks Lexiepuppy (and also PeninsulaPanic). I can't go NC with his dad because of our son, but we do only communicate about our son. That's all. It's just that his dad is v v selfish. He falls down in almost every way, but loves to make out he's such a great dad. I'd happily never have contact with him ever again. Hes a disgusting creature, only interested in himself. A proper narcissist.

I mean this kindly, my grandma couldn’t go to the shops dr etc on her own so my dm always went with her from under 10. It doesn’t seem like much but it was horrible. She felt the burden of managing her mums feelings and had to tamp down her own feelings. I’m not shaming you it’s a hard road but what seems like a small accommodation to you is probably a big deal for him.

I think he may act out as children can take on a strong sense of responsibility/worry when care givers are unwell
Needing him to come shopping with you is giving him a carers role and at 10 that's quite a load for him to have to shoulder
Do you have anyone else who can help you with shopping/doctors appointments etc?
Do you get much chance to do things together for fun?
Without intonation this may come across as harsh,which is 100% not my intention.
It's hard being unwell and raising a child by yourself.the fact he behaves beautifully for others shows he is well raised at home and that he feels comfortable and secure enough to lash out with you says everything about how you parent him well
I hope you can get on top of your health conditions and continue to provide him with a secure loving home

Hello OP.

Your post really spoke to me although I don't have a chronic condition just "issues". I am forking out for some counselling (argh SO Expensive) in the hope that will help.

It's very difficult to look after young children. I have a 10 & 8 year old who say they hate me and have started really pushing boundaries whilst they're angels for my exH. I feel happy they feel safe with me but also stressed that I cannot get them to adhere to boundaries.

For me I think there is too much emotion involved in all our interactions and that is my baggage. Look up Phillipa Perry's book - see if it helps ..it's quite heavy but worth considering the theories of psychotherapy. When you lose it at your child are you actually upset about Your childhood? So for example, the birthday present incident, honestly, don't worry about it. He was cheeky to get playstation. It's nothing about not loving you or being grateful.

I don't have any answers and am following this thread to get advice too really.

You sound alone and I understand that as a single parent. Do you get lots of time away from your son ? I find my house can become a cauldron of emotion cos we are all together all the time and no other adult to balance the household.

Got to run to school....

I dont have any answers but it is all so hard and unfair.

I would say children are quite often selfish little toads ... it's their time to be that. My DC's, although they could be kind on odd occasions or with certain things (animals), were quite heartless to me until well into teens but are growing in empathy all the time and feel proud of them.

However, the "hate you's" and the "I wont visit you in the old people's home" "your fat" "your stupid" "horrible hair" "you havent got a good job" and more and the general every day rants and things picked up from esp Tracey Beaker! did grind me down ... I think they felt safe to offload all their stress on me and quite often were things said to me was insecurities about themselves ... things they couldnt say anywhere else. Bless them! (It turns out other friends' parents were going thru similar, but we were all so mortified we didnt want anyone to know how awful they were!) Can you try and have a conversation with him about him offloading etc and what you can both do to communicate more ... is the a parent liaison officer at your school you could discuss strategies with?

It is hard to say this esp as nothing can be done, but to remember affect of poorly/ill parent or sibling on the healthy child can be quite significant and add another layer of stress for the child. Does your child have access to counselling at school?

I shouldnt worry about the birthday present, who really cares about birthday presents. Can you do an online shop would save you a lot of hassle - mine absolutely hated going to the supermarket once they got past 6 years old! Are you able to do anything to gradually build up your strength, gentle exercise or anything that could be prescribed by the GP. Good luck and hang in.

I don't think you're expecting too much of him at all. Tbh I think it is time to start being tougher. He has to go to the doctors because that is what needs doing and he is not old enough to stay home alone. End of. He can make his own bed, breakfast etc, these things will help take the load off you and are perfectly normal at his age. It's hard to tell without being there but it sounds to me like you have given him a lot of opportunities to negotiate/moan when he doesn't get his way and it's starting to create issues, so I would just stop giving it so much credence when he decides to moan about how unfair it is when he has to do something for somebody else.

I really feel for you OP.

Thanks for all your replies, I dont feel straight enough in my head to reply to each person at the moment but will come back later and do that. Thanks again

How are you doing OP?

Thanks for asking, still the same, still feel exhausted, not the "exhausted" everyone says they feel when theyve had a bad night, but proper exhausted, fatigued, alone, I liken it to when your phone only has 3% battery and offers the option to go to battery saving mode, where you can receive a phone call but you cant access the internet, or use the camera, or use the torch.

I'm just too tired to respond to the ones telling me I'm damaging him for my being ill, I mean really, after having read all I've said they REALLY think that's 1) helpful and 2) something I can actually do something about??

Yes, he does have access to a TA who is there to talk/counsel kids (he's in Year 6) and I've signed him up to a youth club where the first half is spent in a group setting talking about anything that worries them individually, then the 2nd half they can play and have fun. You see what you all dont realise is, that I'm in this situation BECAUSE all these years since he was born I've only ever focussed on him, I've neglected myself, I've sucked up all the fucking crap life has thrown at me and stood in our corner, alone, defending us, because I dont have anyone else to defend us. I kept going and going, just pushing through the exhaustion until in august last year my body couldnt do it any more. I don't have family, I don't even really have real friends, so no, no one to rely on. Only myself. I DON'T consider expecting him to come round Tesco's with me to be over the top. He wants to eat that food too. I DON'T think expecting him to NOT moan when I have to pop to the surgery to pick up a prescription is asking too much. I'm now trying to up the shattered pieces of my health, and if I only have the energy yo do these things in combination with going out in the car to pick him up, then as my son, who can see me struggling, he should not give me a hard time about it. It's not as if I'm making him sweep the yard, or bath in an outhouse, or ho begging on the streets for his dinner. I quite literally cannot do anything about my health until I can get the proper medicsl support, so telling me I'm damaging him by expecting him to walk round Tesco's for example, is unhelpful at the least. Sorry for the rant, but I dont know ehats going to happen with my job, I dont get sick pay, and I'm too scared to look at my bank balance. My sleep apnea is as bad as it was before I started on cpap, and do I'm not getting good quality sleep, last night vertigo (labrynthitis) started up and I still have to keep going. I'm so fed up of being I'll, and tired, and alone, and having no support.

Hi @Silveryfox

Sorry it's taken a few days to get back to you. You know what life is like, time passes so quickly.

You sound very overwhelmed and tired - so tired. I don't have an experience of chronic illnesses I'm sorry. I can have pretty low episodes and am a single parent too so can slightly empathise with you.

I went to a counsellor this week and spoke to her about the weight of responsibility I was feeling. It was nice to be heard and I can hear the same from you - you're really struggling. If the counsellor gives me any helpful insight or advice then I will pass it on. I think it did make me think that maybe the issues with my children aren't about them, they're about me ? And my poor mental health? It all gets very difficult when they're challenging.

Considering you're unwell and alone don't you think you're doing a pretty good job? Are you aware that there are clubs for young carers ? You can usually just self refer - it might give your son a chance to have the space to feel normal as he will be with other children who also have parents will illnesses. It doesn't have to be a serious caring role to get into these clubs. I don't know - but worth a look? If your son is doing even a few extra chores for you he should qualify just fine.

Do you have any support at all or friends or family? Sorry if you've already said. It's not nice to feel alone and isolated. I don't have any family near me at all and no parents anyway so I know a little of how that can feel. Can you go for a coffee with some nice school mums or something? Sometimes that just makes you feel worse But you might find some nice friends???

It's really difficult to get out of a spiral of moaning and patterns of behaviour with kids. I find my kids and I are sometimes going through battles that happen over and over again and it's hard to break out of that.

Kids are really really hard work and I wonder sometimes how I will cope with teenage years as sometimes I don't think I will.

So what do you want OP? Like what would Good look like for you? For me I just want a calm household with fewer battles as I don't have the emotional energy for more.

Also can you go to your GP for anti depressants to help with the fog? I know you're on other medication too but ADs really helps me to stay sane and feel like I am able to cope.

Anyway, how's your week been and do you have any plans for the weekend? Sorry if any of my advice is annoying or frustrating - I think it's just automatically tempting to give advice to people when really just just want to vent and be heard and tell others they're struggling and for what it's worth I can 100% see you're doing your best and it's good enough. It's really tough for you. You're doing well in a very difficult circumstance. I'm not being patronising, it's just clear that you're persevering and it's taking its toll on you.

@Silveryfox You see what you all dont realise is, that I'm in this situation BECAUSE all these years since he was born I've only ever focussed on him, I've neglected myself, I've sucked up all the fucking crap life has thrown at me and stood in our corner, alone, defending us, because I dont have anyone else to defend us. I kept going and going, just pushing through the exhaustion until in august last year my body couldnt do it any more. I don't have family, I don't even really have real friends, so no, no one to rely on. Only myself. I DON'T consider expecting him to come round Tesco's with me to be over the top.
I'm there too. Its hard for people e who haven't been through it to understand the cost we pay to keep going. Pushing and pushing yourself, forcing your body to go on when you have absolutely nothing left for years. I don't think expecting him to go to the supermarket or to pick up a script with you is too much. I think the behaviour may well be because he knows he can rely on you, because he trusts you and because he's probably worried that his mums sick.

I also had a disabling chronic heath condition. I know when I'm doing worse it effects our DC. It worries then to see me so sick, they rely on me in a way they can't rely on their father. They let it out to me. It is bloody hard being their safe place when I'm struggling mentally and physically under the burden of my chronic condition. They won't go to their father, my husband. One DC has asd and Adhd and one has anxiety. It is exhausting and draining dealing with it on my own. Their father does very little at home and none of the extra load that comes with having kids with SEN and MH issues. I've been completely exhausted and one step away from breaking down completely for the last 2 years. So many days I've desperately needed them to behave and let me rest for just a little on the couch. It's those days they behave the worst.

My mum left when I was a toddler. My dad coped a lot of bad behaviour born of anxiety and the damage our mother had done to us. He was the person we felt safe letting it out too. It didn't mean we loved him less, it was because we trusted him more. On the rare occasions our mother turned up again we were angels to her. We were too scared to put a foot WRONG. I don't know what the dynamic is between your ds and his dad, but it may well be he feels he must behave to be loved when he's with him, whereas he trusts you enough to let his emotions out. When I turned 12 I started to really get how much my Dad was going through raising 4 little kids with zero support. Little kids are very ego centric. I had a lot more empath for my Dad as a teen. One thing I always wished then was he'd take more care for himself, not give everything to us. I tried to get him to look after himself. It became another thing to worry about. It is ok not to give him everything you have. It's in his best interests for you to look after yourself too. I feel guilty too for all the things my kids miss out on having a sick mum. I've given far too much of myself too.

Should say have. I'm sicker than ever. It's a hard road parenting with a debilitating chronic illness. I hope you're OK OP.