My daughter has given up

[catclarks]

My 16 year old DD has been in hospital for the last 3 weeks ago after being detained for the fifth time on the back of multiple suicide attempts.Things have been deteriorating over the last few months, and I guess we knew this is where it was heading, but there's something different this time as she has given up on ever feeling better.

It's a long story, but she refuses to engage in therapy and is pinning her hope on medication. She has been on a raft of different medicine but none have really made any significant difference and we are now running out of options. She phoned again this evening and just cried down the phone. I feel so hopeless. I'll never give up fighting for her but this time round I'm struggling to see how she is going to come out of this.

Not much advice. Just could'nt scroll without replying. I can't imagine how you're feeling at the moment. She knows she has you in her corner . You're doing all you can.
I hope someone comes along who has advice .

I'm so sorry @catclarks , couldnt read and run without saying something but I really don't know what to say?

I just hope so much that you've got all the support you need and all the help you can get and just pray that things will turn a positive corner for you all x

I too couldn’t read and run. Perhaps try a charity such as Samaritans or Mind. They may be able to point you in the right direction/offer advice. x

so sorry, catclarks.

www.maytree.org.uk/

Maytree sanctuary maybe an option?!
Be kind to yourself.
Remember she maybe too unwell to see what’s best for herself, sorry for your pain.

BobbyGentry, maytree sanctuary looks like an amazing place, I'd not heard of it before.

Whilst in hospital are they giving her diazepam to overcome the SE of antidepressants? As for a 16yr old!
She must be frightened stiff.
Depression is something that just doesn’t happen, do you know why it started? Or she?
Ad’s need at least 6 weeks to get into the body, Is the psych given it this much time before even adding anything else
Please don’t let them drug her up, and let at least one drug Get into her system before changing or added anything else.
You need/or mh nurses/psych to explain to her that medication alone is not the answer, you need a multiple of things in order to start to feel better.
Is it a children’s mh unit? I do hope so
The thing is, she will probably be with other’s much worse than she is herself. Not a good thing, as this will scare her even more.
Is the hospital local?

I do feel for you op, depression is the pits x

I feel for you OP
Your post reads as though YOU have lost hope though, which won't help your dd. I would think about getting some professional support for yourself. It's very hard being a parent of a depressed child and looking after your own mental well being needs to be a priority.

I've been more on the child side of this. Suicidal, not coping, hurting myself at any opportunity. The truth is, I had several mental health issues, and had to start with the one that spilled over into the others. For me, it was an eating disorder that was caused by lack of confidence and self-worth. Once that was overcome with a LOT of therapy, I then got the building blocks to work on my self- harming, suicidal thoughts, anxiety and OCD. She needs to find the bottom of this. It's so hard, it really is, but looking back on when I was 16 (8 years ago) and now, so much has changed. I wake up happy every single day, and go to bed looking forward to the next day. Back then, I couldn't have even imagined this life for myself. And no, it didn't take a partner to get to happiness, just accepting myself.

Please don't give up on her. Remind her how amazing life is. Let her look at the stars, run sand through her fingers, dance barefoot in the garden. Show her happiness in all its glory. Life is amazing, you just need to shift your perspective.

In the meantime, she really had to try to engage in therapy. I rejected it for so long and regret it so much. But eating disorder therapy was the first one that 'clicked' for me. Therapy doesn't have to be all about talking either. I find pets, music, art and organisation very therapeutic and these help me daily. Good wishes to you both

I was in psychiatric units in my 20s never suicidal but horrific depression please don't let them drug her up to her eyeballs that's all they did for me. I'm now 38 with 2 beautiful girls life gets better and she needs to know life won't always be like this

Thank you for all your replies. It's much appreciated.

snog , ColouredPolkaDots it's really hard to be hopeful at the moment. I look at my beautiful daughter and see a wee girl who has scarred her body so much through self harm and who desperately doesn't want to be here any longer. But those moments are very private and I show nothing but hopefulness when I am with DD and we try and give her as many positive experiences as possible. I have my moments, but I am just about managing and have a very supportive family and friends about.

We know she is very unwell. Things came to a head over 2 and a half years ago and they have slowly worsened over time despite intense input from services and various inpatient admissions. Fortunately she is still in an adolescent unit and it's close enough that we can visit every day.

For reasons I won't go into we just can't get her to engage in any kind of therapy. We have been gently encouraging her to try and we had hoped that as she gets older she come to realise that medication alone won't help her recover but it hasn't happened so far. So for the moment her only hope is medication and if we take that hope away from her she has nothing to cling onto.

@granadagirl she has been on so many different medications, antidepressants and antipsychotics amongst others but nothing has made much of an impact. They're going to start her on venlafaxine this week so I'm hoping that makes a difference. She is already on daily lorazepam to try and bring down the distress she feels as the day goes on but even that isn't having much of an effect.

We are just taking things a day at a time, but it's bloody hard.

I really hope they give her time to come off the drug/drugs she’s on, and not rush her
Which psych like to do. The quicker the better in there eyes, sometimes they add the many into the mix !
A friend I know is on mirt, lorazepam(4) Olanzapine duloxetine and they just keep either upping or adding something. Don’t let them do this.
I know she/you want to see improvement but being drug to the eye balls is not the answer

Does she have anxiety as well?
How many lorazepam is she allowed per day
It’s normally morning wake up that’s the worse time of the day.
Is she sleeping? Eating ok?
It’s a shame she won’t engage in therapy
Do they have mindfulness or yoga? What about that( even if you was allowed to go in the class with her. Permitting.

I wish her all the best,
there a website if she as her phone for internet (if she’s even up to it) called
Nomorepanic
There’s lots of people/threads on there that have different mh problems, that may help her/you.
Does she keep herself to herself or chat to any other girls?

Would she do something creative, however simple, sometimes that can be a lifeline.

Please don't let them dose her up with lorazepam. They did it to me and it compounded the horror of the ward and made me addicted. Hope she recovers soon and you all get the support you need.

I just want to send you and your daughter a hug.

How often do you visit her?

Hi just checking in to say that I was in a similar situation (less than 10 years ago). I didn’t self harm but that was simply because I didn’t have the energy. I just wanted life to go away and I didn’t really care how or why. I was 16 and very far down the line of trying different medications when we hit upon venlafaxine. That was my last hospital admission. It didn’t fix me but it did let in the glimmer of light that made me think I needed to push on, even if only for the sake of my mum, my dad and my dog. I now live independently and have a job. I still take a big dose of venlafaxine, like clockwork each night. I think I probably will for the rest of my life. Venlafaxine itself makes you very ill if you don’t take it consistently, and the side effects can be cruel. But I’ve known a fair few people with major depressive episodes who have found it a lifeline so I really hope it is for your daughter too. Sending love and hope.

I’m so sorry, OP. I hope that some of the stories on this thread give you some hope.

Op, I’m so so sorry to hear you and your precious dd are going through this.

How did your dd’s depression start? Why doesn’t she want to engage in talking therapies?

Are her friends visiting? What does she enjoy doing? Does anything else help - nature, a hobby, meditation?

It must be so hard - an understatement. It sounds fucking impossible to handle with breaking into hundreds of pieces - for you and the rest of your family. Do you have support? Sending you huge hugs and support.

Thank you again for all your comments

@granadagirl she's been on various medication for the last 3 years now. We trust the psychiatric team in charge of her just now and I think they are taking a measured approach to the medication. I totally agree that drugs aren't the solution and it is going to be therapy that makes the difference but that's the biggest problem. She just refuses point blank to engage in that, or mindfulness or yoga or anything that might help.

She is autistic, not diagnosed until 12 as she masks so well. To the untrained eye you would never know. This has caused all manner of problems as people assume she can cope with more than she is able to. She has always been a closed book when it comes to expressing her feelings until it reaches the point where she can't contain them. She won't engage in therapy as she has it fixed in her head that it won't work as any therapy offered before has been straight out the book CBT. This requires cognitive flexibility which she just doesn't have. Over the years, various professionals have told her "it's evidence based and it works", but it hasn't worked for DD so it's just cemented her thoughts that therapy is just a waste of time. Therapy should have been adapted for her from the start but it wasn't. Hopefully as she matures, she will realise that it can work but our problem is keeping her alive until she reaches that point.

She has so many amazing qualities. She is an amazing actor, singer, great at the guitar, artistic, funny and so kind. She barely goes out though and her friends have moved on so she is desperately lonely. We're going up to see her every day but what she needs is peer support.

@PurpleFrames lorazepam addiction is another of my fears for DD and is a conversation we we will be having with the team this week. However, she is becoming very distressed in the ward as the day goes on and hurting herself to a severe degree so it's being offered to try and reduce the distress.

@stroopwafelgirl that's encouraging to hear about venlafaxine. I'm really glad to hear it has helped you. Would you mind letting me know what the side effects are. One of DD's biggest triggers is weight gain so she dismisses any medication that might cause that. There are so many cruel side effects to drugs.

I didn’t mean to give you the impression her psych team don’t care, I’m sure they do
Just wanted to bring it to your attention about piling drugs on her.
If she’s agitated then the lorazepam will help no end, she can start to lower than in time when she is much better.
To get her stable is paramount now isn’t it.

As regards therapy,
It all depends what type of therapy!
Cbt never worked for me, I just thought it wasn’t for me. Lots it works for, some it doesn’t. You only get one choice though !!
The nhs are so stretched, she’s very lucky in one way to get into hospital so she gets the help she needs hopefully
Also it so so depends on the person giving it and the experience and understanding they have.

Posted to soon,
Hope the venlafaxine is the one for her

I’m on that, been on it 8 yrs now.
Started off on 37.5mg and upped slowly to reached 150mg. Still wasn’t that good on that to upped till I got to 225mg
I’m so much better than I was , a massive black hole with secondary mh involved

Regarding venlafaxine
I’d say tell her to take it with food
I’d imagine they’d give her the slow release capsule.
Make sure it’s the same time of day every day(may be problem in hospital, busy)
I’ve never put weight on with it

Does she engage with any patients ?
Or a favourite nurse?

This is heartbreaking. I have had depression myself but still not sure what to suggest.

I have heard just simple things like caring for horses can be employed in a therapeutic way for depression.

I suppose for me, i was fortunate in that i had a clear reason to get well again in my baby daughter. She made me want to fight it.

Things that helped me:
Being out in nature or just outside.
Getting off technology.
Anti-depressants and diazepam.
Being around animals.
Group therapy.
Painting.

Probably not much help as things are so urgent right now.

No weight gain for me - intense sickness for about 4-6hrs after taking, but this only lasted for about the first week and didn’t reappear even when I upped it. Side effects really only crop up when I’ve forgotten to take a dose. Then it’s horrific, almost psychedelic nightmares (what i imagine a bad trip to be like), night sweats and flu like symptoms. But they do disappear quite quickly after you take the missed dose. Obviously this is only my experience and I can’t speak for everyone! But people do report similar.

But I agree wards can be deeply distressing places. I don’t know how helpful they are. They certainly don’t all have the best track record of preventing serious harm/loss of life. But equally sometimes parents of suicidal teens need respite or are not able (due to whatever circumstances) to do what is essentially 1:1 observation. For me, the only upside was being able to try medication that wouldn’t have been permitted in the community due to being under 18. It’s a problem of weighing up necessary evils.

Some people do find "therapeutic horsemanship" (basically learning to care for and work with horses) helpful and it's a way to connect with other living beings without needing to speak particularly.

If you didn't spin it as "therapy" is trying some activities with horses (after discharge) something she might be open to? Not necessarily riding, even just helping with their care - grooming etc. Riding schools often run stable management type sessions where you can learn the care side. Or private sessions.

Horses respond to non-verbal communication, so it can be a welcome break from the pressure to put everything into words (or be doing activities because they're supposed to "fix" you). And if you found a quiet yard that was the right fit for her...

You can do a search on the British Horse Society website for schools near you.

Does she have much on the ward to fill her time and distract her?