Today so far I have not

[letstakeoneday]

smacked my DCs.

I have two DCs, one preschool one primary, both quite "explosive" and I am afraid that applies to both me and DH as well.
We are sadly quite a shouty household also but I have smacked DC1 quite a few times and I smacked DC2 as well and I do not want to.
I want to stop. I know this is wrong and I know it doesn't help.
I think it will help me to see this as a control thing and try and work on my anger.
I'm using mindfulness and this does help a bit.
The latest was DC1 kicking over the potty that was full (on purpose due to being cross at being told off) which was 2 or 3 days ago and DC2 weeing deliberately on the floor (not the same day - but just not bothering to take down pants/trousers despite being fairly well potty trained and being about 2 feet from the loo!)
DC2 I am more ashamed of as they are younger but this is either the only time ever or possibly the second time ever and I think I can knock that on the head more easily. It is not a habit if that makes sense.

DC1 I am getting into a really bad habit of reacting like this to things like throwing and spitting, and of course completely uselessly to hitting/biting/hair pulling me/DC2.

Can someone help me through this one day at a time?

It’s true that children with special needs sometimes need handling differently but that doesn’t mean they don’t respond to positivity.

I do not believe anyone can justify hitting their child. I do understand it may happen in the heat of the moment but long term it is awful.

I’m a child psychiatrist. I know how long those assessments take because I’m someone who does them for a living. I’m also the one who sees kids presenting with the consequence of being treated like this by their parents.

I haven’t said “don’t do that”. I’ve given you a list of advice - more than other people on this thread have done.

This is not about you. It’s about your kids wellbeing.

Anyway, you’ve gone all defensive so I’ve clearly touched a nerve. I’ll leave you be. Good luck with it all.

Oh FFS who said we didn't want to be positive to our DCs! Of course we want to be positive! That's the whole reason I've posted on here! If I thought it was fine how we were I wouldn't be on here saying this!

Paddy I really really hope you don't come across like you are on here to the families you work with.
Don't tell people that X works and they just haven't tried it when they have tried it many many times.
If you can tell me how to get rid of about 10 attacks on parents and sibling before 9 am with sticker charts I'm all ears.
You have absolutely no clue what things are like in our house and, I'm willing to bet, the houses of all your patients. If you are going in and living with them day to day then I apologise but otherwise please don't tell me to do things that I know don't work.

(Oh and that's not a list of advice. It is a list of services - yes they might be helpful but if we can't get anyone to took after the children, we can't go to couples counselling, for example. The advice given by the posters who've had similar issues is much more helpful. They have been in a house like ours. It really doesn't sound like you have)

By smacking when your DC smacks you are showing that that behaviour is acceptable. I was smacked as a child and smacked back and it got physical from there.

Have you got a space where DC1 can have a time out where they cannot get to DC2/you to have an opportunity to calm down before the smacking starts? Can you have conversations about hurting people with DC1 when it’s not in the middle of an incident?

By acknowledging that it is a problem and you want to stop you have made positive steps, try not to let people get you down when they are not you and have not experienced your DC. Walk a mile in their shoes and all that!

Hope today goes well x

Do you have other family around to help?

Does your DH hit the kids too? If not is he able to focus on looking after the kids at the most stressy times of the day!

Hello OP, I'm mum to five dc and my youngest two have autism. My fourth child had extreme challenging behaviour as a co morbid with the autism and other stuff. I can tell you that yes he would have hurt/hit/thrown at someone multiple times by six o clock most days because he also didn't sleep either. We all have scars,some had chipped bones but he's a delight now and we did it without ever smacking him and with extreme rewarding every positive I suppose.
You can't expect him to learn not to hit if you hit him in return quite frankly. We had the support of a child psychologist initially and having someone looking in was invaluable. Just a different perspective when you are so busy surviving means that you get a better view of what is going on.
For ds we used a combination of giving him alternatives for unwanted behaviours and rewarding him for choosing the alternative. So his favoured method of attack was to throw at our heads, firstly we removed and locked away as much stuff as possible that would be used as missiles. We bought and made bean bags in his favourite colour and in textures he liked, we put multiple velcro targets up around the house and then we worked at getting him to throw at the targets. Initially as a game and he'd get a wotsit for every throw. Of course he still threw at us but we'd direct him to throw at the wall. So if he was angry and threw at us he'd get no response but if he was angry and threw a plate, cup, car, train at the wall he'd be rewarded with a wotsit. Slowly but surely he stopped throwing at us and eventually he would grab a bean bag to throw at the wall.
When he would pee on beds we put buckets on the beds and reward him for peeing in the buckets,eventually the buckets came off the beds and later on they went in the bathroom and eventually he peed in the loo.
Fundamentally for every behaviour we found an alternative that we could reward. Rewards changed in time depending on what was important to him so wotsits initially, then those small biscuits, stickers, yu gi oh cards, coins and eventually he needed nothing more than a thumbs up.
Maybe your dc aren't ready for sticker charts just yet, my own ds needed instant gratification, but don't dismiss the idea out of hand. You need to discover what makes your dc tick,maybe it's smarties or chocolate buttons and you will probably need to reward every positive until he gets the idea that it is worth his while to behave in a way you like. It doesn't mean that that will always be the case though because just like rewards need to change so does the level required to achieve the reward.
Have you asked about parenting classes? It would be a good start as it might not be possible to get the same level of support I got initially as ds was considered extremely challenging.

Fleshmarket and Namechange: lovely, empowering and supportive advice and reassurance. Best wishes OP.

flesh That all sounds absolutely lovely and would work really well if neither of us worked and we also had a full time nanny (to follow the DCs around to pick up all the "therapy" toys they own,w we've tried using, but which last 2 hours before they are lost or broken) and a full time cook and housekeeper (to do all the things we need to do that mean we have to leave the DCs on their own).
Not our reality.
We do reward positive behaviour. I KNOW I have to this. You do NOT need to tell me I have to do this. WE DO IT. OK?
Tis my mum's two hours away and is basically rude about DC1. We try to limit contact.
Name we try and give DC1 time out/send to calm down. Sometimes this works. It doesn't seem to help me when I'm having a heavy object thrown at my face.
I'm sure some people are better at controlling their feelings but telling me "we can do it, why can't you" is exactly as helpful for anxiety as it is for anger. I've tried to pull my socks up and that it's not helping the DCs. That's not working.
The worst times are when I have both DCs - so DH can't help.

letstake Do you think I had a full time nanny? a housekeeper? didn't work? No I didn't, exh worked full time I worked part time around his job. I also looked after the other dc alongside ds, kept house and fed us all. I didn't have a choice, he was my child and my responsibility.
You have time to smack him,you have time to react to his behaviour so you have time to put in place steps that can alter his behaviour.
Take it from me nobody is going to come along and sort this for you, even when you have a diagnosis of some sort that might explain his behaviours. Ds was diagnosed at two and a half, I'd say he was eight before the worst of his behaviour was manageable and fourteen before he was a delight to be around.
You can be determined to find all the reasons why you can't alter things and hope nobody raises concerns about you hitting your children because believe you and me school will be questioning your child's homelife already or you can find support and alter things and make life better for you all.

How does DC react after they’ve thrown something at you or hurt you? Can they acknowledge that they shouldn’t have done it? Apologise? Are there any warning signs before it gets to the stage of throwing/hitting? Just to get an idea of before/after the actual negative event x

letstakeoneday

I think you are being a bit harsh on the posters giving advice. They are trying to help and you are being rude to them.

BTW, sorry for asking again but does your husband ever hit the kids? If not can’t you get him to deal with the kids during the times they are most likely to be volatile or is that not possible.

Why are people coming in here and being so harsh? She’s clearly said she’s getting help and trying to do better. I’m disgusted in the HCP (I am also one!!) who feels the need to post such venom at a clearly struggling mother. Take all the help OP, try not to dismiss things they are saying

@Steeley113

I posted no venom at all. Can you identify it? I expressed serious concern about the welfare of her young children as a consequence of being abused.

The original poster has since thrown suggestions made by me and others back at us.

No kids so could be talking out of my a* here but have you tried completely ignoring them when they hit you so they don't get the pleasure of your reaction. Literally pretend they're not there.

Otherwise perhaps when you see they're about to hit, grab each of their arms in yours and say very very slowly in a calm tone: 'Child-name, it is not acceptable to hit. Calm down' and don't let go of their arms until they calm down; if you let go and they hit you again, take their arms again.
Positive praise for good behaviour even if it seems like nothing like tidying toys away make a big fuss over it.
Best of luck.

steeley no venom from me either. I took time to post how I addressed challenging behaviour in my child it was dismissed because apparently my experience isn't valid as OP doesn't have a nanny or a housekeeper and has to work (well I was in the same boat with more than double the number of dc but I managed it anyway.)
I don't think OP actually wants suggestions or sources of support to address the difficulties she seems to want a pat on the head for not hitting her children today. I tend to think that that isn't particularly helpful because OP's children shouldn't be being hit any day and unless OP gets support and learns behaviour management strategies nothing is going to change for the children.

OP it just crossed my mind that whilst flesh’s suggestions seem like hard work, they also sound like they might well work (and are a lot more useful and immediate than “just use a sticker chart”), whereas what you’re going through at the moment also sounds like really hard work but really isnt working for any of you.

Just occurred to me that this might be a useful way of looking at things as you start making positive changes (and as you’ve already pointed out, you will all need to make changes in order to change the situation).

sorry but i agree with paddy

it isnt a one-off smack. you hit your kids regulary. its disgusting to be honest, poor poor kids. they’ve been on the planet for a couple of years, they’re figuring the world out and misbehaving, they dont deserve to be injured and scared of the one person who is supposed to love and protect them.

user thank you for trying but if I knew how to not get angry I wouldn't be here would I? I'm sure some people can not react when a large heavy object is thrown at their face and makes a mark and the person who threw it knows it hurts and is laughing.
I'm not one of them.
Everyone who is assuming I don't want to stop - why would I say I want to stop when I don't?
When I was so anxious I was scratching at my face thank god nobody said I should "just stop". Thankfully there was help.

But with the reaction here there is NO FUCKING WAY I'm admitting this to any professional on this earth. Never.

Verbena as I've said we have no way to do any of that kind of thing. If I decided to make some beanbags and a target, well for a start it would be about Christmas before it got done. Within 2 days, all the beanbags would be on someone's roof or DC1 would have found a way to hurt someone. Current weapon of choice is any piece of fabric. Very painful when you are whipped.
Our house is littered with the debris of visual timetables, chewy toys, fidget toys, things to throw, things to hug, things to run around with, things to practice specific skills, pictures of faces to show emotions, and yes behaviour charts.

I cannot be my DCs full time therapist. I just don't have the strength. Neither of us do. I either need proper help or a way to cope with things as they are. With a two year wait for a diagnosis the former is not happening.

But I'm sorry I asked for help. I was getting somewhere till everyone started telling me I am abusive. I won't bother another time.

You do know how to not get angry.

Do you hit people who jump the queue or who are rude and obnoxious to you in day to day life? No? Then you can control your anger.

letstake even if you get a diagnosis tomorrow, you aren't going to get somebody to come in and do the work for you. You might not get a diagnosis for years to come (it's not unusual for a child not to receive a dx until secondary school) You might get a parenting course or if your child's needs are extreme you might get a child psych to observe and give you strategies but the work is down to you and your dh. It's not about being your child's therapist, it's about being the sort of parent that your child needs.
I get that it's difficult,it was bloody hard work for me as well, but what choice do you have? You carry on as you are, your child tells someone he is being hit and then children's services step in and you make the changes under their watchful eyes or you face facts that you need to stop hitting, get support and learn how to be the sort of parent your children need and deserve.