Suicidal thoughts will always be taboo as they're always wrong

[melodybirds]

Does it close down the conversation if the other sides responce is predetermined and your basically just wrong?

You're!

I'm not sure what you mean by your question but I don't think suicidal thoughts can be regarded as 'wrong' in the black and white sense. They're a natural and honest expression of some incredibly painful and deeply felt emotions and traumas and to label them 'wrong' is dismissive.

Are you worried that you'll be 'shut down' if you express these thoughts?

They're wrong because they cause heartbreak to so many other people. Mothers, fathers, siblings, grandparents are all affected.

Fewer consequences on here. Maybe better to talk here than real life.

Who are you having conversations with (or at least trying to) about suicidal thoughts?

Very few people have the training or emotional capacity to deal with someone's suicidal thoughts, so while I wouldn't describe the thoughts themselves as "wrong" it could be that you are trying to discuss it with the "wrong" person iyswim.

If you call the Samaritans they will not shut down the conversation. .....

If I was to summon the courage to speak to someone about the suicidal thoughts I've had and they told me I was wrong then yes, it would close the conversation down for me. I probably wouldn't confide in anyone else either on the back of that. Ditto if anyone told me I was selfish or I need to think about DH / DC, etc. I certainly wouldn't be confiding in Singlenotsingle

@Singlenotsingle when you're suicidal it's because you feel such a nuisance and burden to your family that you're even considering it. Guilt-tripping is not helpful.
IME Samaritans were completely useless when I was feeling suicidal; I would never ever recommend them.

I do understand it's a mental problem. I was just thinking of a case in the press recently where a young man was so devastated at his brother's suicide that he did the same thing a year later. Poor boys, poor parents

@Singlenotsingle absolutely fair to call it what it is - frightening, overwhelming, crisis - but using the word wrong to describe suicidal thoughts just makes things even harder for the person who's struggling with them.

Indeed - in some cases it's not wrong at all - is going to Dignitas when you have a terminal illness and you want to die with dignity "wrong"?

It's important to talk about feelings of suicide though, as in many cases the person feeling suicidal is depressed and thus is not seeing things clearly. With help and support, they can heal to the point where they are glad they are still alive.

Two totally different situations. Two different outcomes.

They're wrong because they cause heartbreak to so many other people.
I agree whole heartedly having experienced suicide within a family.

The trouble is if everday is hell why would family want you to suffer on... for them. I have no partner or kids as a decision of isolation for this reason and have gone nc with other family.

Samaritans were completely useless

Again another taboo to say it as the advice is dished out repetitively but I agree.

When people say 'get help' or call thesamaritans I want to ask what is this magical help. Mental health seems to be reduced to curable depression when it's wider and more complicated. Often even magaing it is barely possible.

It's important to talk about feelings of suicide though,

Could advice also be about the aftermath of talking? What if all you feel is more guilt, silenced again, forced into quick lines like ok I'll never kill myself and forced into another limbo. Of course it's important to talk but there is so much emphasis on it helping it distances those who are left isolated again and knowing talking will be about changing not acceptance ect. It can cause anger, frustration at being alive but all these things are hushed under the carpet. Of course it takes time so I think a realistic view would be great. For many ppl they would see suicide like their own dignatas.

Melodybirds, I hope you are doing ok. Your logic sounds a lot like my friend who made repeated suicide attempts over a number of years due to her extremely poor mental health. Her thinking was seriously disordered, but she was unable to see this due to the extent of her illness.
She’s now doing much better, is back at work for the first time in years, building relationships, and can finally deal with some of her disordered thoughts and see the point of living. She’s finally seeing the point of DBT and hasn’t had any suicidal ideation for a year.
Isolating yourself is often the worst thing to do as you are just at the mercy of your own disordered thinking. You are worth more than that. Reach out.

Oh I so understand you @melodybirds, especially about the aftermath of talking. Who's there then?
How are you doing today?

'Wrong' isn't the way to describe it. It's not considered a crime any more, though you do sometimes still see references to 'committing' suicide.

It is really common to meet people who have had someone they know or someone really close to them do this, and having this happen seems to make other people more likely to do it too. My husband took his own life earlier this year, and probably my greatest fear is that my son will be more likely to do so as a result.

It does have an impact. It's not 'removing yourself' from a situation, it creates a new situation. It's lobbing a stone in to a pond in terms of the number of ripples it creates, though tbh the impact is more like chucking a brick into a teacup from a great height.

I couldn't possibly blame my husband for what he did, as he was literally out of his mind at the time, it was in no way a choice. But it was a truly terrible thing to do and it didn't have to happen. Please do talk to someone who won't tell you 'these thoughts are wrong' but who will help you tackle it practically. My starting point would always be my GP.