Feel suicidal. Losing everything because of the HMRC.

[hatethehmrc]

The HMRC have decided that as I didn't tell them about my new job in July, I owe them over £5000 and they will not be paying me again until April.

Every day, they tell me something different regarding whether the fact that I'm going to be in severe hardship will make a difference. Today, the answer is no.

I'm a young single parent, I work, I'm in my final year of a degree. My living costs (rent/ Nursery bills) are high - £1800pm just for them. My tax credits equal £1100pm. Without this money, me and my 2yo will be homeless, I won't be able to go to work (I owe last months Nursery payment of £600 due to this). I won't be able to finish my last term of university and graduate, which I have worked so bloody hard for.

They say the appeal will take up to 44 weeks. I begged them to just listen to the phone call in July and this would all get sorted out - every day, the answer to whether they have this phone call logged changes. Even on the days when they do, they say the note just says that I renewed my tax credits and that's it. I beg them to please take the 5 minutes to listen to the entire call, then all of this mess will be sorted out. They refuse. My MP tried to help but couldn't get too far.

Now the clincher: I got the awards notice from them today saying I would be paid £647 as a final payment between now and April. I've just phoned them up and they say that that is a mistake that has now been corrected. I ask for a new letter saying that I won't get paid anything, so can try and receive some childcare help through student finance or my university. They say no, they won't do that, as their calculations are based on me paying childcare for the rest of the year with no help. But there's no way I could do this!

I'm going to lose my home. I'm going to lose my job. I'm going to have to drop out of university. All in the next week or two.

Three years ago I escaped from an extremely abusive and violent relationship whilst pregnant. I was 21, homeless and jobless and had nothing. I've built me and my daughter a lovely life, and now it's all going to be taken it away from us through no fault of my own.

I can't cope. I can't stop crying. I've exhausted every avenue. What do I do?

*This email address is for a man called Jon Thompson.

[email protected]

He is the chief exec of HMRC. His team deal with complaints. I know a huge amount of people who have dealt with him and his team, and the matter has been sorted quickly and payments reinstated. Compensation has been paid for errors made too.

Don't worry. Email your complaint and you will get a quick response.*

This is so helpful thank you! I am going to speak to my university tomorrow (before a really bloody important exam tomorrow afternoon which I can't revise for st all as I can't stop crying). And I'll talk to the CAB. It's not the inconvenience, it's just difficult getting an appointment with them in my area. Also when exP left me with some debt they made things a lot worse for me due to an error in a letter they sent the debt collectors. But I'll try.

Gosh, how scary. I really hope some of the advice here can help. I think mail Jon Thompson sounds a good idea, it is their incompetence that is potentially going to disrupt so much of your life.

Also, go to uni hardship as others have said. They helped me in a far less serious situation.

*Sorry but that doesn't make sense. Have you anything in writing at all? It seems strange. Did you check that they had been changed correctly?

How do you know if you are getting the correct amount if they have no record of your job?* 

Because my income was similar, and they've told me. They've said that in April my payments will be what they were minus £50 a week taken for overpayment. They've said that the payments weren't wrong (I've sent them all my payslips/ Nursery bills), but it's the fact I didn't tell them that has caused this. When I did.

Granted, they keep saying different stuff so I don't know if this is true. But that's what they've told me.

There will be a way through this - you will look back on this when you are old and raise a rueful smile.

Well done for getting your life on track and getting back into education. Are you really going to let a few bumbling bureaucrats beat you after all these achievements?

Get all the advice you can - lawyer, CAB, uni support people. You WILL sort this out - really. You are just too mired in it all at this moment to stand back and take a long view.

Here is a link to a helpful page I hope, capuk.org/i-want-help

I'm a bit confused. You got a new job in July and according to them didn't notify them? Before that were you working at all? Usually with overpayments they just take a percentage of your claim back and I can't understand why they haven't done that as presumably you are still entitled to some tax credits.

Why were you under investigation? If it is just a case of a change of job and they claim you didn't inform them of the new job, then it doesn't make any sense that they would have decided that you owe that much money as they then should still have the details of your last position and your income should show what you were paid.

Before Christmas they sent me a mandatory reconsideration pack asking for all my payslips and Nursery invoices. I'm not sure why. I sent this back immediately, but they said they didn't get it (lesson learnt!) so after Christmas they stopped my money, I rang up and heard that they didn't get it, sent it all again that day. I agree it doesn't make sense. They say that the reconsideration has been partially overturned in my favour, so I don't owe money from the 12th December. The figure is from the rest of the year.

It doesn't make much sense, even less that your MP has decided that there was nothing he could do for you. Your best bet as said is to deal with them, but without knowing the exact circumstances, it's hard to help, which it sound is what your MP tried to do in the first place anyway.

It's not him, it's an aide. And he has made lots of phone calls for me, and says to email him if he can help any further, but he keeps telling me things I already know and it's just not very helpful. Nothings actually changing

I have had similar in the past they are a pain to deal with but it is possible to sort it out. Our award was correct but as they didn't change employment details when dh changed job even though I did ring them they said we owed them just over £9000. There is a clause that says you only have to pay back anything you wouldn't of been paid if you had informed them of the change. So if you recieved the correct amount you shouldn't have to repay anything. I had to write a letter and quote the clause they wrote back in a few weeks and agreed our claim was correct.

Google it you will find it and just follow the instructions, from memory I think it is under compliance.

I have had similar in the past they are a pain to deal with but it is possible to sort it out. Our award was correct but as they didn't change employment details when dh changed job even though I did ring them they said we owed them just over £9000. There is a clause that says you only have to pay back anything you wouldn't of been paid if you had informed them of the change. So if you recieved the correct amount you shouldn't have to repay anything. I had to write a letter and quote the clause they wrote back in a few weeks and agreed our claim was correct.

Really! Ok that's brilliant. I'm going to write a kick ass email to the chairman quoting all of this stuff.

Thanks everyone aswell for their well wishes btw. Am feeling a little brighter.

Are they making you repay apr-12th Dec tax credits saying you weren't entitled to them for that time because you didn't respond to their compliance checks? Is that why they are saying you've been overpaid for the year and they aren't paying anything until April?

I'm a bit confused. You got a new job in July and according to them didn't notify them? Before that were you working at all? Usually with overpayments they just take a percentage of your claim back and I can't understand why they haven't done that as presumably you are still entitled to some tax credits.

I don't understand why they won't do that for me either. I was working before. Honestly I would just not argue with them if they decided they'd take 10% as an overpayment. At least I could live.

They say something like because my payments are already over what they should be until April, that's why they can take it all. Something like that. But like I said, I can never get a consistent answer from anyone.

OP they did the same to me. I called them up to tell them my husbands earnings had increased, and that I was earning money (I’m a student as well) and they made a note of the call but made no changes.

So we were over paid a few thousand pounds. You would think we had spare money during that time but we didn’t. We were barely scrapping by.

They cut our tax credits by 50% for a few months whilst it was paid back.

They also discovered that they over paid me before my husband and I were married and living together. I just pay them £10 a month.

Have you suggested paying X amount back of them deducting the money each week rather than having zero?

Sorry I’ve just seen that you already suggested that to them.

Fuck me they are useless.

*OP they did the same to me. I called them up to tell them my husbands earnings had increased, and that I was earning money (I’m a student as well) and they made a note of the call but made no changes.

So we were over paid a few thousand pounds. You would think we had spare money during that time but we didn’t. We were barely scrapping by.

They cut our tax credits by 50% for a few months whilst it was paid back.

They also discovered that they over paid me before my husband and I were married and living together. I just pay them £10 a month.

Have you suggested paying X amount back of them deducting the money each week rather than having zero?*

They just said that there's no other avenue to go down basically. So I haven't asked that. But am going to try and email the chairman.

They are absolute numpties at times.

I had an over payment they took this from my UC claim.

Ex partner also had to payback, set up payment plan for what he could afford, 6 months in they stopped taking payments and sent him a cheque for the money he’d paid. 2 weeks after they sent him a letter saying you’ve not been paying this this will be passed to debt collectors etc.

Showed them all the proof and one department didn’t communicate with the other so it all went wrong, mistakes happen and often with them.

I really hope this sorts out for you and

Don’t listen to the ‘no avenue’ bullshit because there absolutely is an avenue for that. We’ve done it.

Three times in fact.

They are seriously rubbish.

Are they making you repay apr-12th Dec tax credits saying you weren't entitled to them for that time because you didn't respond to their compliance checks? Is that why they are saying you've been overpaid for the year and they aren't paying anything until April?

God knows! Maybe. The horrible patronising lady I got today said oh if you had just replied to us straight away in December maybe this wouldn't be happening to you and your daughter.

I said I did reply the very same day, just stupidly didn't send it recorded delivery. Why wouldn't I reply? I have nothing to hide! Two weeks later when my money suddenly stopped and I found out that they were claiming they didn't receive the letter, I sent it all again recorded delivery this time, again on the same day. Funnily enough they got that one.

I've not had experience of the HMRC, but when dealing with other Government agencies I have learnt to do nothing on the phone. The people manning the phones don't have a clue what they are doing, and will just say anything they can to get you off the line. The people who can actually help you, or at least sort the mess out will not be anywhere near the phones. Letters (registered) for important stuff, or emails so that there is a definite trail (I again suggest cc-ing in someone, for instance your MP, or even several someones, so that they can't pretend it wasn't sent).

Good luck.

I'm really confused OP.

Is the job that you started in July much better paid than the previous job? And did HMRC know about the previous job?

Unless the new job led to a big increase in income, it shouldn't have made a massive difference to your tax credit entitlement, although if you were getting working tax credits a cut in hours would mean you no longer qualify for that element.

Now that your income has gone down because your tax credits have stopped, you may be entitled to more housing benefit. That would help with your rent.

There's too much confusion there. From what you are saying, it sounds like the issue is more to do with your payslip/nursery bills rather than they not having your new job details.

You say the reconsideration had been partially overturn, so that means that they think you were not entitled to what you'dreceived after all?

Dear God, op, my sympathies... I'm so sorry you're going through this, but please don't do anything ridiculous, if anything for the sake of your child.

Complain, appeal, and repeat until you force them to hear you out. Try legal aid, you definitely have a leg to stand on. Don't quit uni and don't let this stop you. One day, it'll all be behind you, promise.

OP: I'm a caseworker for an MP and I have a background in welfare rights.

Its hard to advise without seeing the paperwork so the very best thing would be to find someone who specialises in this area and let them take a look.

From your OP it sounds like you think the payments are correct but that the HMRC are treating them as an overpayment because they think you failed to follow the procedure correctly. Would that be right?

I think, if this is the case you will probably need to enter a mandatory reconsideration with a view to appeal.

If you wish to challenge the entitlement decision (how much tax credits you are owed) rather than the overpayment (who's fault the overpayment was an whether you should pay it back) then you need to make it clear.

Sometimes the HMRC steer people towards the process for challenging the overpayment when a mandatory reconsideration of the entitlement deicsion would be more appropriate.

I usually look to see if the entitlement can be challenged first and only move on to challenging the overpayment if this is not possible.

If they are, indeed, correct in their claculation of your entitlement then I would look to challenging the collection of the overpayment.

I would ask them to use their discretion not to collect on the grounds that you met your obligations in telling them about the new job and that they failed to log it properly. I would also make the point that you are suffering extreme hardship which is negatively effecting your mental health (these are also grounds for them to use their discretion not to collect)

As I said, the ideal would be to obtain expert advice. If this is not possible, most libraries stock the "Welfare Benefits and Tax Credits Handbook" published by Cpag which has detailed information.
this government website has links to the specific forms you need. Please note there is a different form to challenge the amount (if you think they are wrong that you have been overpaid) and the overpayment (if you think they should use their discretion not to recover an overpayment).

I second the person who said to stop phoning the helpline. They are rarely helpful and, as you've found, the process is emotionally draining. The best way to interact with them is in writing, on the correct form and, ideally, with proffessional assistance.

While you are going through the process of challenging this mess with the HMRC- i would approach your university for help with a hardship grant.

Good luck.

*There's too much confusion there. From what you are saying, it sounds like the issue is more to do with your payslip/nursery bills rather than they not having your new job details.

You say the reconsideration had been partially overturn, so that means that they think you were not entitled to what you'dreceived after all?*

It's not. They're saying it's all to do with not having my new job's details.

No, it was overturned from owing everything up until a week ago, to owing everything up to the 12th December. So they've backdated a month before they're saying I told them (now basically). I know it's really confusing.

Please don't do anything stupid. Your child needs you.
Go to your GP to get a referral for some counselling for the stress in addition to whatever steps you are taking to deal with the financial side....

I'm a little confused though, is your new job PAYE? In which case, surely they knew about it anyway? Also - I thought DWP dealt with tax credits not HMRC? I may be completely mistaken there though (sounds like I probably am!) because I've never claimed them...

Ultimately I think your best bet is going to be to try to renegotiate what you repay them towards the overpayment, CAB are probably the best bet for helping you out with that. Good luck either way xx