Anyone here who deosn't view their MH issues according to a medical model?

[BabsCabsIsLocal]

Anyone?

As I mentioned on another thread "An MN outspoken, fairly feminist, fairly anti medical model mental health forum would be amazing!"
It surprises me that there isn't more of this on MN, which is so supportive and fairly good for picking apart and discussing issues in other areas.

I don't quite know what you mean? How do you view your mental health issues? Genuine question, I think I'm missing the point.

I view my mental health issues in terms of my experiences, what has happened to me and how that has affected me. I find this much more helpful than the approach the mental health system (not necessarily all individuals within it!) takes.

I guess I view at least the vast majority of MH issues as injuries, rather than illnesses. Some injuries will be permanent, some will improve with the right treatment/exercise, but they all result from something rather than just spontaneously appearing.

One related thing I have found intriguing is the massive difference in how I am treated by professionals (crisis team is my only, occasional, contact) since the possibility of ASD has been flagged up (by me! But at least they agreed to assess). Now they listen to me. Before I might as well have been sayig "Blah blah blah" or whistling like a Clanger, so little did they engage with the content of what I was saying. I think this is beacause ASD is a little outside of their remit (some have commented they know little about it), but they have a vaguely sympathetic attitude so are trying to be helpful on a "human" level. (For the record, I "pass" as neurotypical - I may in fact be neurotypical - so I don't think it's a non-verbal communication issue).

I’m also interested in this approach, Babs. For anyone curious, Dr Jay Watts, a psychologist, has written a really helpful piece that I think is relevant:
amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/12/is-mental-illness-real-google-answer?__twitter_impression=true

This could be a really interesting thread.

I'm inclined to agree, Babs, with your view of MH issues as injuries rather than illnesses. That may be coloured by my own experience - my symptoms have always felt overwhelmingly 'physical' (loss of speech, extreme fatigue to the point of being unable to move when in pain). When I describe how my severe depressive episode felt, I say 'like a brain injury.' At any point were someone to have asked me, "Are you happy?" I would have described myself as happy with my life but unable to go on.

The article was interesting but circular, I think. I'd need to re-read and formulate a response when I'm less tired, but I feel that Dr Watts begs the question in a few places.

Part of the problem is that there is no philosophically satisfactory answer to the mind/body problem.

Interesting thread. I think the mind and body are all one organism, you can't have one without the other, and the mind/body split eg in healthcare is thus utterly ridiculous. I had ME for many years, an illness with many physical symptoms, and recovered through a talking therapy which focused on emotions.
When the Body Says No by Gabor Mate is interesting on how trauma is stored up in the body.

NB for any ME sufferers I am not saying anything about your illness, I'm only saying that in my case I can only make sense of my illness in that it was of the whole person. I think ME probably covers a range of illnesses some of which are entirely physiological, as much as any illness is.

I find the word 'agoraphobia' a bit unfair. Women have actual danger to rationally worry about when they go out (as well as being told that our home is a safe place where we're less culpable as victims of violence and sexual assault). The discourse around safety, vulnerability and culpability (ie you're safe at home, you're vulnerable and partly to blame if you're a victim of violence while out out at night) can eventually taint the whole experience of being out.

I work in MH and feel v much in a minority viewing emotional distress/altered states of reality as reactions to circumstances rather than a brain malfunction. That's how I see my own problems as well. There isn't much room for this way of thinking in psych hospitals because the doctors set the tone iyswim. GPs don't have the time to go into the person's life story. Community secondary care is more accepting of alternative views ime.

I agree OP. Psychologists tend to see mental health issues as emotional processing issues within reason, whereas doctors tend to use the medical model. It works well for anxiety, depression, panic, trauma, even BPD.

BPD's a funny one. It strikes me as as much of a judgement as a diagnosis. There's a thread on here atm about someone who's been diagnosed with autism, PTSD, and BPD. I'd love to know exactly what they think are BPD symptoms, once PTSD and ASD are accounted for... it's like they've added on BPD just to say "it's a little bit your fault".

There are clearly mental health issues that are related to life experiences . But there are also seriously unwell patients with biological illnesses and it would be extremely foolish to deny this and suggest that the medical model and treatments are worthless. Each case is different and treatment and approaches ideally should be individualised and appropriate to that persons history and presentation.
I have seen patients who have been mute for a month, under 5 stone who have responded dramatically to ECT. It is very stigmatising to these kind of patients to promote an anti-medical model . It is akin to suggesting people should treat their cancer using dietary approaches rather than chemotherapy.
I have also seen many patients who have had so much trauma in their lives that they are struggling with their issues. Psychiatrists are doctors and their skills are in managing biological illnesses. Psychologists have a different set of skills which can be equally effective in helping people to understand their difficulties and to help them find ways to manage them . In good mental health services both should work together to provide a holistic service . Individuals may view mental health from their own perspective but why suggest there should only be 1 approach that fits all or a "good" and "bad" approach to a myriad of different conditions all with different aetiologies.

noodd I was treated with ADs and ECT was proposed by my psychiatrist. I still feel that in addition to medical treatment it has been useful to view my issues from a feminist perspective.

With respect this is a discussion about whether or not we view our mh issues through anything other than a medical lens. Do you feel that is promoting a non-medical model? Or were you reacting to a particular pp upthread?

noodd It is very stigmatising to these kind of patients to promote an anti-medical model.

It's highly damaging, not to mention breathtakingly unethical, that the medical model is predominant. We are allowed to talk about alternatives, when our lives have been wrecked by this model. There are so few places to go to talk about this kind of thing or to receive support for actual human problems or suffering in our lives.

It is akin to suggesting people should treat their cancer using dietary approaches rather than chemotherapy.

Don't be ridiculous. It's more like someone going to A&E with a broken leg, and rather than set the broken bone we just give them painkillers, and wonder why they can never walk properly again. Or people coming in repeatedly with stab wounds, and never considering that perhaps a knife is involved somewhere along the line.

poirotDidit
I am not arguing against a non medical model - I believe that for certain problems it is absolutely a better choice. I think there is a misunderstanding about what conventional mental health services are set up (and resourced) to do . We absolutely need services to support people who need an alternative approach to their issues .
But I do believe that a medical model treats biological mental illnesses very effectively and I am concerned about an attitude that suggests that no mental health illnesses are due to biological difficulties is very dangerous and I have met patients who don't accept the medical treatment they so clearly need because of these attitudes.
I apologise if I have misunderstood this thread to be anti the medical model but that's how it reads to me. My opinion is based on seeing many people with difficulties over many years and not purely on personal experience

PoirotDidIt
I agree. Suffering, pain, anxiety and depression is part of life but they have been medicalised because society can't face up to them. If someone is severely depressed following e.g. sexual abuse then that is not an illness but a response to terrible suffering and they need support not just labels and drugs.

Me! I am in total awe of Derek Summerfield's work.

I think it's a really interesting thread.

Anecdotally, my DS2 went through a period of awful self harming and depression at 14. Love bombing and looking at our relationships seems to have helped tremendously. At 18 she is a very happy and confident young woman.

But she has friends who went down a more medicated route who still have real problems.

Has anyone else been held in cells due to mental health? I'm struggling with memories of previous crises. This is the kind of experience that makes things worse due to the way the system is, and no-one really recognises the damage caused - most people would have no frame of reference at all.

Sorry if I'm not making sense, very muddled right now.

Interesting thread idea, and sorry to hear you are struggling Can absolutely believe that poor treatment of those suffering with their mental health could push them to a even worse place. The more you are made to feel mad and degraded and dehumanised then, I would imagine, the more there is to overcome in order to recover.

Was just reading this which has some similar ideas to your original question:

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/12/is-mental-illness-real-google-answer?__twitter_impression=true

I see where you're coming from OP. I do often wonder if I'd be as depressed as I am if I hadn't experienced a huge bereavement as child, something which has affected every single aspect of my life ever since.
One of the things my therapist said which has really resonated with me was 'don't confuse depression with grief'.
I just don't know. I've lived my life without being given the space to grieve, so I have to start my grieving now and it is bloody painful.

BabsCabs not been held in cell but have been detained by police in their station due to mental health crisis and that was bad enough. They wouldn't let me go for ages until the CMHT had called. and yes, memories of even nastier crises.

BabsCabs

BabsCabs i am pretty sure my issues are a mixture of abuse trauma and also inherited issues.

but good luck with getting anyone to take trauma issues seriously if your issues are BPD. wrote a thread about that earlier today....

Hello mentalfluid, I sae your post late last night but wasn't sure how to respond - sorry. Just, I understand, that's all.

It's so ridiculous, and horrendous, that humans in distress have all this cold, medicalised, tick-box type stuff rather than basic humane, kind care.

I've generally found the police much better than the mental health professionals... I think because they're used to dealing with really unpleasant people, when they have a vulnerable person to look after they drop the "cop" thing and become human. I remember one saying to me that he knew I was being massively let down by services, and it wasn't my fault, he was so kind and obviously at a total loss of what to do but wanting to help.

The thing that gets me with the BPD label is that it's so judgemental, and based on someone's subjective opinion. I feel I was hugely scapegoated in order to be given the label (years ago now, but it never leaves...) For example, judgements about the kind of relationships the person has, forgetting it takes two to tango. I've always been consistent and loving but have attracted the kind of men who are perfect for a couple of months then drop the act - it wasn't me being unstable in that scenario! And I'd have done better having some kind of lesson on abusive men (maybe the Freedon Programme), and assertiveness, and generally being treated like I was a worthwhile person... rather than being encouraged to believe I was fundamentally flawed and worthless, it was all my fault, and I should please everyone.

I strongly agree with you Babs. I've been on anti depressants for years and the dosage, along with occasional add ons like amytripylene (sp) or zopiclone, has steadily risen in order to give the same level of help. I've come to realise recently that a lot of my feelings are linked to things that have happened in the past (not abuse) and my GP agrees that therapy would be very helpful but... she can't offer me any. My trust will only offer counselling or CBT (have had that) for anyone who isn't a danger to themselves or other people. Of course, the waiting list is huge and I don't need counselling- I need a psychologist.

There needs to be a massive paradigm shift in how mental health is treated, with a long term outlook and an understanding that many patients will need help on and off throughout their lives. How that can be achieved is anyone's guess.