Brother living in squalor- trying to help

[whataboutbob]

My bro (48 yrs old) has long term mental health issues and lives in squalor. He is in the same home Dad lived in before he died. Some background: Dad was a hoarder and had dementia, for the last yeat of his life he was in a home, which upset bro a lot. Bro is now also basically a hoarder, but with a lot of input from me and negociation he does agree to stuff being disposed of. I'd love to line up 20 skips down the road and fill them up, but he'd never agree.
Anyway, his kitchen is falling apart and DH who is very practical and good at DIY (so unlike everyone in my family!) has offered to fit a new one for him. Frustratingly, bro is throwing in queries/ objections and basically stalling . Difficulty is, if you ask him a question that is too close to the bone (eg what worries you about having a nice kitchen) he just doesn't answer, but i think he is nervous about his stuff being thrown out. Can anyone suggest how best to reassure him and get him to agree? Thanks for any suggestions .

Don't really have any advice but I've worked with several hoarders and there was never a 'good' outcome. The one person who agreed to have some stuff cleared then complained and complained that things had been stolen, and sure enough within a short while her house was back to how it was.

Your brother needs specialist help really, is he getting any?

With the kitchen I can see how the thought of replacing the entire thing would be anxiety inducing. Is there any chance of replacing a little bit at a time, or just replacing bits necessary to make it functional? Generally cupboards are standard sizes so it's easy to replace hinges, doors, work tops individually.

Would he stay at your house while it's being done? If he can't see it all it might help? It's hard to know what to suggest as we dony know him.

This sounds so difficult for you. Is he is any danger and is it affecting him or is he fairly immune to what to anyone else are bad living conditions?
It does sound like he needs specialist help and sorry I don’t have more experience.

Thanks for posting everyone. Yes I think it’s anxiety inducing for him. We could just replace one item ( the cooker which barely works) which is probably what he wants, rather than the whole kitchen. He has a mental health worker involved but there’s a limit to what they can do. He is not in any immediate danger but it’s frustrating to see him in such a horrid environment when we could sort it. I’d love to, but he’d freak. The only silver lining is he will, very gradually , allow me to remove stuff but everything has to be agreed to before it’s put in the car which is agonisingly slow.

I’ll invite him to come and stay at mine for the duration but he’ll probably refuse. He watches so much news he’s convinced there’ll be a terrorist attack the moment he steps off the train in London.

I feel for you, and him, how awful

Could you do it a bit at a time, so focus first on replacing the cooker, and the positive things about that, and once you've done that one step think about the rest of the kitchen?

My eldest sister lives like that too. We decided a few years back that she was an adult, she was capable of making her own decisions, her lifestyle choices had minimal impact on others so we’ve backed off. Our mother no longer goes to stay as the risks of falls are too great but we still include my sister in family lunches out etc. If eldest sister stays with other sister she is directed towards the shower and her clothes are washed but otherwise we leave her to her choice. In the long term, it has created less tension and all are happier.

My brother is like this. Sadly, until he is ready to want to change, he won't. If we take executive action and sort the house out, he might be initially relieved but I'm sure he would backslide quickly. That would cause frustration and disappointment to the rest of us and further damage relationships.
It's crap and hard to fight the urge to do what's obviously in need of doing.

I can totally understand how your family have come to that sanity protecting decision Crumbs. I go there once a month to trouble shoot a few issues, we chat, watch some TV, and maybe go for a drink then I get back on the train, fantasising about skips and house clearances.
Well, if he backs away from having the kitchen replaced ( the units date from the 70s and are literally falling down) we’ll just help him get a new cooker and let him know we could replace the units later.

I have to say I've never known a situation involving hoarding get the slightest bit better after forced or outside cleaning/renovation of the house by concerned family/friends. The hoarder feels violated, becomes even more protective of their stuff, and quickly returns the place to the same (or worse) condition.

The only long- or short-term solution is therapy and hard work by the hoarder. I'd stick to doing what he's comfortable with you doing and doing your best to detach from the rest of it.

Start with the cooker and use installing it as an opportunity to clean and sort the kitchen, once it is in he may ease up on resisting doing more.

Queen, I can understand your viewpoint and I mostly share it. The only thing which gives me some hope is he has, in the past, accepted that we chuck stuff out together and over the last 3 or 4 years we have done about 10 trips to the dump together, so he has some ability to let go of stuff.

@whataboutbob that's good. I think if he responds to some gentle persuasion and you can make things a little bit better, that's all good - just important for you not to take on the burden of solving it all, as I've no doubt it's hard work.

It's good that your brother agrees to some things going OP- that's actually really positive given his situation. I am glad he's getting some professional help.

Doing the cooker sounds like a good plan. It might be worth thinking that although to you it's all mess and horrible, the situation as it is clearly gives your brother some sense of security. He's lucky to have a sister who keeps on looking out for him, and working with him. It can't be easy

Thanks for your support. After some reassurance (I think saying we don't have to get a skip and I'd take the old units to the tip by car was important) he's said he agrees to new units as well as a cooker. However I'm not counting my chickens just yet. There are quite a few steps before we get there. And if nothing comes of it at all I think I'll be OK with it. I'll post again when the situation is clearer.

Whatever the backstory is with crumbs, at least she was making helpful comments. Please, I don’t want my thread hijacked by some feud.

hey crumbs I hope you see this sorry to hear about your sister its such a crap situation for all involved my brother is much the same and today im going up to clean 2 wet beds hopefully he will let us dump one, stick him in a bath if we can get him in and clean clothes for Christmas. we need to sort the smell out in his flat as I think the neighbours are gonna complain soon. my mum is in her 70's and stays in the same apartments as him he is on the 12th floor and she on the 1st shes so embarrassed. he suffers from anxiety terribly and is hitting the booze big time 5 years so far over a litre a day of gin I don't know how he is still here. my fear is my mum takes him in but I know its her choice she says she wont though ive tried every avenue to try and get some help he just wants to end it all he tells us all the time and its very distressing for him and us but rubber gloves and bin bags at the ready not to mention the air fresheners it just breaks my heart

yesterday I had great intentions I know it needs done and I need to help my mum but when I woke up this morning its just so overwhelming I just need to get it together and get stuck into my brothers house come home and have a good cry behind closed doors. its heartbreaking to see a man that had a fantastic job a lovely car and lose it all for a drink he is gonna lose his house next im sure of it.