PND or just lack of sleep?

[Saloire]

I can't turn my brain off! I keep obsessing and obsessing about the same thing: my daughters inability to latch on properly at the breast, and her potential allergy to cows milk formula which I'm really scared about. It feels like every moment of my waking life is permeated by worrying about these two things. What if she can't get enough milk (very real possibility, not just in my head) what if she has an allergy to cows milk formula like her older sister (very real possibility and starting to manifest albeit very subtly). The problem is, I don't know how to stop thinking about these two things. That's all I think about. I can't go outside as I'm trying to express milk so she had enough, I can't get enough milk for her so I have to give her this bloody formula, but I can't seem to think about anything else. I don't even want to see my friends, I'm too tired to even talk half the time, my older daughter keeps asking me why im sad and I don't know what to say to her. When I look at my little baby and Think of her getting ill, it just fills me with dread and guilt. I feel like every bottle is poisoning her just a little bit more, and don't know how to act. The other night she got so blocked up she could hardly breathe and I had to prop her up, but is this normal? Does this happen to all babies? On top of this, the constant worrying and obsessing sometimes drives me completely bonkers when combined with lack of sleep. Because of her poor attachment at the breast, she feeds all night. I would say I have about two or three hours sleep on average. My partner wants a full nights sleep, and says I can sleep after 5 o'clock when he finishes work. More often than not, he brings the baby into me she won't settle so I can feed her. She really doesn't get very much from me (I can tell this from the nappies or lack of them, but I know she derives a lot of comfort from sucking on my nipples. But sometimes I just feel so trapped and about a week ago I considered ending my life. I just don't know how much more that I can endure. Is this postnatal depression or is this just pressure? I don't know how to feel, I don't know what to do, and I don't know where to get help or even if I need help.

Sorry, in my sleep deprived state I didn't check if my message would trigger anybody, I really hope not, it wasn't my intention at all X

How old is baby? Firstly have you had your latch checked? NCT and La Leche League have counsellors who can visit to help with the breastfeeding aspect.
You really need to chat to your health visitor or GP about how you are feeling. It's normal to feel down and hormonal after the birth of your baby but intrusive thoughts, suicidal thoughts and ruminating is not good for your mental health and you need some help.
If it's too scary can you ask your DH to call for you and come with you? It's really important you have support right now.
I know you are expressing but if you can make even half an hour to go for a walk with some fresh air it will help too.
Please seek some help OP, it will make you feel so much better.

Thank you. I have had her latch checked by about 20 different people, and have never been able to attach her properly even after almost 500 feeds. There have only been to people who can do it: a lactation consultant and a breastfeeding counsellor from the NCT. All the rest of us haven't been able to do it right at all. My gut tells me there is some anatomical thing with her, or at least there is some minor aspects of positioning that is so minute that none of us can get it right. I am blind so I think a difficult baby can be a bit more tricky for me to work out how to latch her on, but I thought my sighted husband would be able to do it, but he can't either. Anyway, my milk supply is starting to drop I think, as I saw a decline in her nappies before I started supplementing with formula. I wanted to feel I was doing the right thing, but then these allergy symptoms started appearing and it just makes me feel so bad. It feels like there is no way out, I can't breastfeed her because she's hungry all the time and cries and cries. I can't happily feed her formula because she's uncomfortable, and it could potentially make her ill. With my older daughter she didn't end up really ill until age 4, so I guess the intolerance was very mild. My younger daughter may be the same, in which case I'm worrying about nothing. It just scares me that's all. Because I'm so sleep deprived, I kind of feel drunk, and like I'm running on adrenaline so that nothing seems real. Hence I don't know what's real and what's mental illness. The boundaries aren't clear in my mind any more. I guess my question is, what would a sane person's person's reaction to the situation be?

You sound depressed, to me. Thinking of ending your life is a lot more than "tired".

Whether it's PND or lack of sleep you sound like you feel help. Use tomorrow to sleep as much as possible & call your health visitor. If they can't help Go to your GP on Monday.

I know it's a technicality (& please forgive my ignorance as I'm not blind) but a baby getting a good latch, to me, always been on how it feels, and how I can hear them sucking, rather than seining it. How old is your baby? What positions do you use? Is there any time for some skin to skin & laid back feeding? Or Breast compressions during a feed? The fact that your baby is suckling and that you are able to express means that you have milk and a willing baby so can you try again with the lactation consultant or NCT help as it sounds like you are close to getting it? In the meantime could the GP prescribe a dairy free formula and then you can be sure you're not causing any problems for your baby. As whether or not she has a milk allergy it sounds heart breaking to feel like you are poisoning her.

Also, can your partner take the baby and a couple of bottles for a few hours tonight and then you can get some sleep, he could sleep in the day tomorrow and then it might seem easier to tackle things.

Is there any chance she has tongue tie? This can affect the baby's ability to latch on properly and stay latched on. Just a thought. This was the case with my first, I had terrible problems feeding her

Please talk to your HV or GP ASAP

Apparently no tongue tie. If i latch her on herself she just hangs off the nipple. Ppl are telling me my state of mind is preventing letdown. If that's so, why are my nipples sore and elongated?

I think you definitely need to get you both along to the GP, baby needs assessed too if you think she is cmpi.
With latch, my DD had a TT and the best position for her is laidback breastfeeding. It lets her get a deeper latch.
Please call your HV tomorrow, you need some more support.

If you also posted about latch issues in infant feeding you'll get some really experienced mums.

I was with you, until you said the bit about wanting to end your life, last week.

Ds2 was TT, and cried all through the night. Sleep deprivation sent me loopy. Sleep deprivation is extremely damaging. But wanting to take your life is a step too far.
Please get to see your GP and HV asap.

I just wanted to say I feel you on this. I had a nightmare trying to bf DS and topping up and constantly worrying about if he had enough and he fed and fed and fed all night too...it's intense and it's draining and you're doing all you can. If you're worried about CMPA could you buy goats milk formula to at least take that one worry away?
I would echo others and suggest you talk to your GP or HV, you need to make sure you have as much support as possible. You will get through this.

Sounds like PND and OCD and anxiety (not a Dr, just a person who's been there). Sleep deprivation makes all of these worse (it affects chemical balance in the brain).

Please call your HV asap or GP, don't let it get a grip and then you go unsupported for ages.

PP have suggested the latch consultants etc. Give them a try one more time and if still no joy, I would consider bottle of non cows milk. Seriously it is not worth stressing over and making yourself ill over BF. Better to have a full tummy baby and a relaxed mum than making yourself distraught.

OP you sound very sensible and able but just really really tired, and, understandably, depressed.

You will get through this and you should ask GP for help, for yourself and about the milk intolerance, and go back to the NCT or lactation counsellor for bf advice.

You may already have thought of these, but somethings a less tired person might think are:
1.Make sure you are eating properly yourself, and drinking plenty of fluids.
2.The nappies may have been drier because warmer weather so sweating it out rather than peeing it?
3.You sound exhausted and beyond, but try to get some rest for yourself, and the feeding may resolve itself.
4.Try bf lying down in bed so you can rest while feeding, I used to do this for all night feeds and often in the day. Nose to nipple tummy to mummy, just horizontal rather than vertical. My head on a pillow.
5.Go back to NCT or lactation counsellor to get her latched on properly.
6.Get alternatives to cows milk formulas to rule out intolerance, sorry I know nothing about this but if you suspect she is intolerant can you ask for a medical opinion or test?.

1. If you are bottle feeding as well as expressing, the baby is maybe getting enough milk without needing to breast feed, and just using you for comfort. so maybe reduce the size of bottle feed ?
2. In my experience when I was seriously sleep deprived and struggling to breast feed it was the NCT breast feeding counsellor who worked out how to fix things, I would definitely go back to them, but also agree with previous person who said it is not worth driving yourself mad to make it work, you have done great already, and with second child it is more difficult to get time to rest.

I hope you work it out soon