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Mental health

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Original poster

DS has threatened to kill, I'm furious with hospital

53 replies

Feckitall · 01/02/2017 18:52

I'm here for a vent more than anything!
DS1 is 28 and has had health issues since mid teens. He doesn't live at home, he works and is studying for a degree. He has 3 DC by his ex whole other thread He contacted me to say he went to the hospital as he had thoughts of killing someone, not to worry he would ring me later. A bit later said he had given them my number as they wanted to speak to me. The doctor then rang me, we chatted for half an hour, he even asked if I thought he could do it and I said yes! they said they would have a multi disciplinary meeting and decide what action to take. The doc even said 'he is very articulate and as matter of fact' I was home within 10 mins, told DH what was happening, to get a message from DS to say they had released him! I went to pick him up, he said he can't remember anything from Sunday night until this morning.He was hearing voices this morning but was aware enough to know to get help. He is scared of himself and what he could do and worried as his bank account is empty and he doesn't know if he paid his bills!
They can't decide what is wrong with him, over last 3 years, bipolar, BPD, narcissistic personality disorder, adult ADHD have all been discussed. They did say he is Aspergers with high IQ.

In which world is it ok to let back out onto the streets someone who has delusions, disassociation and voices without support in place, they are booking 'talking therapy' for him, he will be put on a waiting list! ARRGGGGHHH
Where do we go from here...

OP posts:

Original poster

Feckitall · 03/02/2017 21:41

Thanks for the support guys..

Yeah....trouble is I don't know how long until the next time..it could be 2 days, 2 weeks, months..or a year...its unpredictable and no warning signs..last time was the week before Xmas...I did put it down to stress..he was struggling to get accommodation..money from his job was late..ex was piling Xmas pressure on..yada yada..it got too much...this time it was all going well...moved the previous week into a houseshare..work going well..studies going well..the psych asked how he was managing both study and work and his response was that the degree work is easy..he is very high intelligence/academic ability..he just cant seem to stay well enough for long enough to improve his life.

He has asked me to look into power of attorney for his finances until he can cope better..

If they don't take him seriously when he is ill I can't see support being put into place until disaster happens...after the horse has bolted. He is known to MH services...he was seeing them after the last time!

OP posts:

AnxiousCarer · 03/02/2017 22:00

It's really hard not knowing. DH and I are working with his CPN team to understand the lead up to his last crisis and look at prevention of future crises. We have done it before, and he stayed well for 3 years. Didn't spot the last one coming though. It's something to ask the CPN about when he does see him. For DH its definately stress related

TresDesolee · 03/02/2017 22:05

Is he on any meds? If so maybe they're not right for him. Can take a few goes to get the right combination and dose. that's something the psych should be able to look at.

SecondsLeft · 03/02/2017 22:10

Well, make sure he knows he did the right thing going there. I know its frustrating, but he can use it as a place he can get an assessment, some time for the feelings to pass, and mental health information recorded to build up a picture of his needs. Going to the hospital is a good safety plan in these circumstances.

Catrina1234 · 03/02/2017 22:20

Any complaint OP should be made to the Care Quality Commission (CQC) this is the body that oversees all Mental Health Trusts in the UK. You should get their contact details from the Trust or by googling...............

QuiteLikely5 · 03/02/2017 22:32

Ask him to tell you the next time he feels this compulsion and literally call the police.

They will be right around, get him to the station where medical assistance will be sought.

The police won't risk having a potential death on their hands.

AnxiousCarer · 03/02/2017 22:51

OP I would complain via PALS in the first instance, you are likely to get a quicker response than CQC, thats more the long game. As someone who works in the NHS a PALS complaint comes through very quickly and there is a time framework for a response I think its 7 days. CQC oversee quality standards and have more clout, but are much more remote.

AnxiousCarer · 03/02/2017 23:19

To be honest if your DS is able to take himself to hospital for assessment, the police won't do anything different. They would take him to hospital to get an assessment, the outcome of the assessment would be the same. The police can only detain under the mental health act for assessment and if the assessment is that he doesn't need sectioning then even if they don't agree with the outcome they can't act against it if no crime has been committed. Thats the law, the police are not MH proffesionals, they have to respect the proffesionals assessment. And they could say that the fact your son didn't hurt anyone means that they made the right decision.

TresDesolee · 04/02/2017 10:12

I get your point anxious and you're probably right, but of course this is what's so wrong with the MH services system - that people have to wait until they're deeply ill and in crisis before any substantial, sustained help is offered. Until then, family members are expected to provide nursing and counselling care despite being terrified and distressed themselves.

I still think it's worth getting it all on the record to the MP, the police and the CEO of the mental health trust now. You never know whether someone might decide it's just not worth taking the risk in this case.

AnxiousCarer · 04/02/2017 12:23

It is certainly very difficult to get help before someone reaches crisis point, and I do feel that DH and I have been let down in the past in this respect. In the most recent crisis he was detained in police cells whilst awaiting assessment as the hospital, couldn't /wouldn't take him and a&e couldn't cope with him. I would have felt safer if he had spent a few days in hospital whilst they got his meds sorted, whether he was an actual risk to me though is hard to say as he didn't harm anyone. It would have been unfair to section him just to make me feel better, I appreciate it must be very difficult to make these assessments.

In OPs case though it sounds like her DS was asking to be admitted voluntarily rather than under section.

AndNowItsSeven · 04/02/2017 13:05

I still think the bpd is very relevant in regards to both the voices - he knew they weren't real and the threat he would actually be to others.

AnxiousCarer · 04/02/2017 13:18

Agreed, I don't know much about BPD, but having those insights into his thoughts, behaviour and potential risk to others, probably means there is less risk than someone who has these thoughts but doesn't realise they are unwell.

That doesn't mean its not really scary for you and him though

Original poster

Feckitall · 04/02/2017 20:01

Wow...thanks..its great to know I'm not on my own...
Good day today..he arranged to see his kids at ours, said that he wanted them to see us.
He hasn't told his ex what happened, she would use it against him..and believe me she is a nightmare herself! played mind games and wouldn't confirm she would turn up
Kids just wanted daddy, and I leave him to parent them, he cooked dinner and sat and read to them/played with them.. sorted out squabbles

OP posts:

AnxiousCarer · 05/02/2017 18:13

Thats great, sounds like a lovely day, and theres no reason for his ex to know anything, its none of her business unless the children are at risk, and it doesn't sound like they are.

I've spent time this weekend on my second draft of my complaint letter regarding how DH and I were treated, which has stirred up some difficult memories. I want to get the letter right as I want it to be taken seriously, and I want it to be constructive on how our experience could have been improved as I'm frontline NHS staff myself and know that they were probably doing their best in an underfunded service. I don't want it to be negative, but I want to tell our story in a powerful way that will make some impact.

The main things I am unhappy about are that he was detained in a police cell not a hospital, that he was assessed in the police station rather than taken to the hospital, and that I was not allowed to see or speak to him during this time and not even allowed to go into the building to collect him, had to wait in the carpark on my own. Given the last time I had seen him he was threatening to kill me, you can imagine what kind of state I was in.

Anyway glad things seem to be settling for you and your DS.

Original poster

Feckitall · 05/02/2017 20:10

Good luck Anxious!!
Although DS was at the hospital pleading to be helped and they decided he was ok..
DS has managed to keep his job...he had been honest at his interview and they are being sympathetic..we sorted his rent out..he loves where he had moved to so it was worth hanging on to.
It will go pear shaped at some point, we have been there too many times to be deluded but hopefully he I can relax a bit for a while.

OP posts:

AnxiousCarer · 05/02/2017 20:55

Really hoping your son gets some support once he gets to the CPN apointment.

DH told me the night before he had a mision to kill certain people, but when they assessed him told them he was just drunk and talking rubbish, but then did they honestly expect him to admit to these thoughts whilst in a police station being questioned by people who had told him that they were there to section him? I know the difference between DH drunk and DH psychotic, but they said there were no signs of psychosis. CPN agreedcwith me when I gothim home.

Glad your DSs job and home are ok. DH wasn't so lucky with his job we hung onto our home this time, but haven't always. He has a new job though so things are looking up again.

OhTheRoses · 05/02/2017 21:16

The people closest know the deal. Others need to start listening.

Catrina1234 · 06/02/2017 15:53

Trouble is anxxiouscarer S.136 of the Mental Health Act does state that someone thought to be suffering from a mental illness ca be taken by the police to a "place of safety" - and that can be a police cell or hospital. It's horrendous and I know the police hate having to detain people who are mentally ill in cells but as you say it's all down to serious under resourcing and that is only going to get worse.

My niece is a police officer and she says it is commonplace now for people with mental health problems to be detained in police cells awaiting assessment. They do though have S.136 cells which are not as bare as ordinary cells. She spends as much time as she is able talking with people in the 136 cells - on Saturday night there was a young girl aged 15 detained- waited 7 hours for an assessment and was then deemed to be fit enough to return home.

I really deplore the whole system and not because of the personnel but because of the lack of funding. Everyone is guarding their boundaries - the MH Trust where I live has just cut all beds in 5 acute wards by 50% - closed an entire dementia ward and closed a day centre. God only know what will happen next....................

AnxiousCarer · 07/02/2017 16:49

I know its an organisational and national problem and not the fault of the individuals. My complaint is verymuch worded this way. I know working Iin an NHS service which was decimated a few years ago that complaints can help improve things as they can be used as evidence that things are not working. I'm not expecting huge changes on the back of the complaint, but would like to make people think.

Original poster

Feckitall · 07/02/2017 20:46

Well ...they sent him a emergency CPN appointment, he went along to the clinic for it to be told it was a mistake and the CPN is on holiday until the end of the month....

OP posts:

Catrina1234 · 07/02/2017 22:08

OMG Feckitall you must feel they're taking the piss. You MUST complain - it's shocking - that's just incompetence, nothing to do with staff shortages etc. Your poor DS (and you)

OhTheRoses · 07/02/2017 22:38

Indeed. In writing, registered delivery, ask them to note what they will be doing in wiring within five working days.

Yes this isn't about resources, this is about incompetence x

AnxiousCarer · 08/02/2017 17:15

Thats really bad Feckitall have they not got anyone else to book him in with? Definately get on to PALS, email will be quicker than post and you have a record of what you have sent.

Original poster

Feckitall · 09/02/2017 11:45

Update: emailed PALS...see what happens...
I asked who will be taking responsibility if he does something!

OP posts:

AnxiousCarer · 10/02/2017 19:09

Hope you get a response soon.

I've been talking to my family liason CPN about my experience. He is very supportive of complaining. He's also offered to work with me and DH to look at DH writing an advance directive with an outline careplan of what he wants to happen if he gets poorly again. Including asking the MH teams to include me in the process and listen to my opinions, even if hes telling them not to talk to me once he is poorly. This will have legal standing and they would have to consider it, and have a goid reason for not folowing his wishes.

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