To the young man feeling suicidal whose post has just been deleted.

[AnxiousCarer]

Hi norris,

I was bullied a lot at school and believed that I was ugly and worthless, it's taken a lot of years and plenty of therapy for me to realise that I'm not either of these things. At 23 I was still massively underconfident, and had only had I boyfriend, who treated me with the same lack of respect I treated myself with!

The first thing that I notice in your post is that you seen to have attached physical looks and having a girlfriend to value and worth. I think it is these beliefs that are causing you pain, rather than your looks alone. Have a think, are there any people of value and worth in the world who are also plain or even ugly or disfigured? (Have you seen the film Shallow Hall? If not I highly reccomend it)

When I first met my DH my first thought was not "Wow what an attractive person" in fact he wasnt even my usual 'type' my first thought was "He seems like a nice person" 10 years on and to me he is the most attractive person in the world, because I love the person that he is, that is what makes him handsome to me. Its no good being beautiful on the outside if you are ugly on the inside.

Next point they have girlfriends and live happy lives full of pleasure Do you know any unhappy people who are in relationships? Being in a relationship doesn't necessarily make you happy. In fact I would say that you need to develop a good relationship with yourself first before you can expect to have a good relationship with others. We only ever see the outsideof ppeople's relationships, the bits they want us to see.

I want to be a normal 23 year old and go out with friends every night I was definately not going out every night at 23, I was working full time, living on my own and spending most evenings at home alone keeping up with housework, gardening etc and so were my friends of a similar age.

It sounds like right now you are in a very black place. If you are feeling that you may harm yourself I would urge you to go to A&E. Also samaritans are always available to talk to or email. I think it can be very hard for young men in our society to discuss their feelings and emotions, bbut I'm sure thereare many others who feel similar check out Andys Man Club on Facebook. I would also advice you to see your GP, maybe print out your post to show them if you struggle to know what to say. Don't worry, your GP will have seen plenty of people in similar situations before.

I'm sorry you haven't had a good experience with therapy so far. There are different types of therapy and your GP will be able to discuss various options with you.

to you AnxiousCarer and also to Norris.

Is this sreious?

A young person posted about feeling suicidal and the thread was deleted?

OK, there is always a sad little waste of space -troll- somewhere out there who thinks that sort of post is funny. And those do need to be deleted... but if that was genuine, is he still alive after a shout. fir help is deleted?... Just asking.

It was decided a long time ago to delete suicide threads in line with many other chat forums. The emotional strain on untrained members trying to talk probable trolls people out of it was too much.

MN policy is to delete threads like that because NO MN is qualified, or should even try, to get involved. The Samaritans don't even try and talk you out of it. And they are highly trained.

Unfortunately, MN is full of "savers" who actively get themselves involved in things they have no experience, knowledge or training in.

And that can be very very dangerous.

to the OP of this one for her post.

MNHQ deletes threads talking about immediate suicidal thoughts not because they think they're trolls (not always anyway) but for a variety of reasons to protect all parties concerned and after taking advice from the Samaritans and others.

I thought exactly the same thing different, I've seen so many posts from people who are feeling desperate and suicidal that arn't deleted. The main difference with this post seems to me that the poster was a young man. It takes so much courage to ask for help and if that plea is shot down could be imemsely damaging. MNHQ signposted the OP to samaritans, and I hope he had the strength to reach out again.

*MN policy is to delete threads like that because NO MN is qualified, or should even try, to get involved. The Samaritans don't even try and talk you out of it. And they are highly trained.

Unfortunately, MN is full of "savers" who actively get themselves involved in things they have no experience, knowledge or training in.

And that can be very very dangerous.*

There is also a school of thought that says if you find someone unresponsive you should not attempt resucitation incase they survive and them sue you for breaking their ribs...

A lot of MNers have experience of either being suicidal themselves or supporting loved ones who are having suicidal thoughts (I fall into both categories) I remember talking to a CPN from crisis team and saying to her that I was worried about saying the wrong thing and making things worse for DH, her response "there are no right or wrong things to say, just let them know you care"

And a lot of MNers have been emotionally upset/traumatised/etc by suicide threats on here. MNHQ took the decision to delete threads after consultation with experts and charities. Iirc it was quite a big "thing" a few years back. A few threads got very messy and a lot of posters got very upset.

And how would the savers have felt if something innocent that they said pushed someone over the edge?

HQ are bang on with deleting these threads.

It's not our job to save anyone, and anyone who gets over-invested in that kind of thread, if they really genuinely want to help, should apply to the sams, although as has been said, they never tell anyone not to do it, so the MN savers would never get accepted in the first place.

I didn't see the original thread but would like to agree that it is personality not looks that matter. I know it sounds crappy and trite to say that, as if it's just something people say, but it is true! There was a thread a while ago on here about it, and some posters did say attractiveness matters but most were in agreement that you become attracted to someone when you like them as a person. I think men are more likely to go for looks first, so perhaps assume women are doing that too.

Most of my boyfriends have been people I'd not have looked twice at but have got to know as friends and then found irresistable. One man was quite chubby which I didn't like but soon found him the most attractive person on the planet as I got to know him. Sadly had to keep my hands off as he had a girlfriend - so there's a not conventionally attractive man who had two women in love with him.

Vintage And how would the savers have felt if something innocent that they said pushed someone over the edge?

I'd have thought it was much more likely that a deleted thread would do that than someone trying to help. Speaking from experience.

However some people in general seem to have an evil streak that comes out at these times - as if they enjoy picking on the vulnerable, and would purposely antagonise the OP.

Personally I think MN should re-word the deletion message on these threads to reflect this. A brief note outlining the relevant Talk guideline and a note saying they made the decision to delete these threads out of concern unsuitable people would respond.

If you call the Samaritans, you can't speak to the same person again like you can on a forum. Also you have to go over the same things if you need to speak to someone more than once, whereas here you can put it all down in a post, and posters will often understand things like the working of the MH or benefits sytem, so you don't have to explain those things if they are problematic. Not knocking the Samaritans at all, but it is completely different.

There also always seems to be the assumption that professionals have some kind of magic touch, but in reality that's not the case. Someone who has personal experience of feeling suicidal might well be better at saying the right thing (of course some professionals do have personal experience too). And thats before we actually look at the reality of the situation. If I went to A&E with suicidal urges, I might post here first because frankly I'd be more likely to get some support and reassurance compared to a rushed psych assessment (which is mainly seeing if I need to be admitted) is an overstretched hospital. Or support whilst on way to hospital, or whatever. I'm not arguing against MN's deletion policy btw just musing! It seems such a shame that there are people who want to help (and actually on various threads I've noticed people who seem to long to live more communally, somehow) but the way the world is they are completely mismatched to the people who would benefit from that kind of "just looking out for you" support (alongside therapy etc) which the psych system cannot and does not provide.