Can an unplanned/unwanted C-section cause PND?

[sanchez]

DS was born just over a year ago by c-section after a failed induction. I was completely unprepared for this - didn't even know an induction could fail! It was the absolute last thing I wanted, I had my birth plan, wanted everything natural, no drugs etc, and was distraught when told I had to have a section. I was obviously happy to have DS out safely, and at 42+ weeks the head still wasn't engaged, so he wasn't ever going to come out naturally. He came out screaming, and didn't stop until he was put on my chest almost an hour later, he's been much the same ever since, very clingy and very hard to leave. I've been suffering PND for a few months now, and can't pinpoint when or why it started, but can't stop thinking about the birth. I feel like such a failure for not being able to do it naturally, and I didn't ever even start to labour, so I feel like I haven't given birth, even though I have DS IYSWIM. I feel it was too traumatic for DS too, as he was obviously quite happy where he was, and I will never forget how distressed he sounded when he came out. I know most babies cry when they're born. Some think a section is an easy option, but physically my tummy still hurts when I do certain things, and psychologically it's tearing me apart. Told GP, HV and councellor how I feel about this, but they're so matter-of-fact about it, and think I'm being over-dramatic - maybe I am, but I feel like I let DS down and myself, and I keep going over all the other things in my life that I can't get right either. Would appreciate any advice on how to get past this - Lulumama, would be particularly interested to hear what you think if you're around, seem to remember reading on another thread that you've experienced something similar? TIA

7 lb 5oz and yours?
D.s was taken away before I had seen him too.
He was dressed & washed next time I saw him.
D.h took some photo's but I put them away as d.s was blue and head badly cut.I still can't look at them,can't connect with them.
I often dream that I gave birth to him naturally & am snuggling him to me & then waken to reality.
When was your lo born?

I've been there too. Dd1 born after a botched induction, had a crash section under a g/a. I actually asked for a section earlier in the day as it was sooooo obvious she wasn't coming out. She ended up in Nicu with impaired kidney function, a collapsed lung from being resuccitated and an abnormal brain scan. Her apgars were 1 and 2. My first memory of her is the photo dh brought to me in recovery, I just saw thsi perfect baby - it was literally months before I noticed teh breathing tube in her neck and all the wires in the photo. The next memory of he rI have is of me high as a kite on morphine being shown this screaming, red, angry little thing in Nicu. I was incapable of doing anything for her.

When we got home I couldn't bfeed and dd1 screamed and screamed, all night long, for three months. I felt such a failure.

I didn't have couselling. I've learned I'm one of the few who does better not to, although I found offloading here good. I didn;'t seek any help for my PND either.

In the end my healing was through having dd2, with a planned section as she was breech - I did a birth plan and I did bfeed her for 2 yrs. I've just had ds as a planned section too and both births have been positive experiences for me.

But last yr my friend's ds died, and when we were talking about it I suddenly found memories flooding back from dd1's birth and the fact she nearly died, and that night I cried and cried and cried - things I hadn't even realised I felt came flooding out, four yrs after the event and a long time after I felt 'over it'.

My dh couldn't understand either. Dd1 was here and healthy (mercifuly all her birth problems righted herself) but I did feel like I had to mourn the mother I wanted to be.

I found using the principles of attachment parenting really helpful.

And I promise you, it makes no difference to our dcs, or how much they love us.

just thought i'd add my story, in the hope that solidarity lends support.
dd was an em c-section after failed induction. it took me over 2 1/2 years to come to terms with it - i frequently wanted another baby just so i could get it right & give birth. lurking on a thread about different forms of childbirth finally made it click for me - having a healthy baby, by whatever means, means that you gave birth successfully. I didn't have pnd, in fact, a severe case of ante-natal depression lifted, magically, with months of sickness, as they pulled dd out & I was fine the next day. However, the psych nurse had talked me through pnd, and any form of traumatic birth can start pnd.
ps - how your baby looked when born - beautiful.

oh nearlythree-you've made me cry
hugs all round i think x

just thought i'd add my story, in the hope that solidarity lends support.
dd was an em c-section after failed induction. it took me over 2 1/2 years to come to terms with it - i frequently wanted another baby just so i could get it right & give birth. lurking on a thread about different forms of childbirth finally made it click for me - having a healthy baby, by whatever means, means that you gave birth successfully. I didn't have pnd, in fact, a severe case of ante-natal depression lifted, magically, with months of sickness, as they pulled dd out & I was fine the next day. However, the psych nurse had talked me through pnd, and any form of traumatic birth can start pnd.
ps - how your baby looked when born - beautiful.

sorry
'puter playing up.

do you know , what is also so sad....

that so many women suffer so terribly , and in silence, guilt and shame after birth, because they are afraid of saying how they feel

or they say it, and are ignored or dismissed

i am so glad that there is a place for all this to be discussed and the anonymity is a blessing, to let it all out......

definite hugs all round xx

sleep well all xx

Lullaby - sorry, I didn't mean to! Have a hug back!

lulumama, I find talking face-to-face about this and about what happened to our dcs earlier this year incredibly difficult. I hate crying in front of other people. I know crying isn't weak but I just can't do it for some reason. That's why coming here and sharing and talking with so many wise women is such a blessing.

Sanchez, I really feel for you. My DD's birth was pretty traumatic. She was never in any danger (although from time to time they thought she was) but when she wouldn't come out the hospital tried forceps and then a section. Thy had, by this point, made me labour on a bed for hours and hours which was grim. They also broke my waters for me, which I suspect may have been the trigger for the events which led to the section. I found myself incredibly cross. I didn't have PND, but the flashbacks and extreme anger made me think I might have some mild PTSD.

In the end, what has helped is posting, in detail, on MN (until someone came along who helped me make sense of what happened in factual terms - the position the baby was in, how she might have got stuck etc) and wrting out my birth story (17 pages in the end). I will be asking for my notes, but only so I can hand them to the doctors the next time and command them to do the opposite!

Seven months down the line I feel a lot better, but still find myself droning on and on about it to my husband - especially when I have had a couple of drinks... I also think about the next time, and, until I started to feel better, wanted to get pregnant very soon in order to get it right.

You have been through a difficult ordeal and need to figure out what exactly it was about the birth that upsets you so, deal with that however you need to and then move on. You haven't said whether your hospital runs an "afterthoughts" service (possible through the patient liaison people). If so, this can be very useful. Alternatively, my HV told me that if I couldn't get over it I should write to my consultant and ask her if she could meet me to discuss my birth, just so that I could understand what happened, as understanding the facts was very important to me. If you could do that, would it help?

Finally, please don't feel upset about your baby crying when he was born. They virtually all do and it is a surprise to all c/s babies when they are suddenly out of the uterus. BTW, I suspect (after talking to my consultant) that it is just as much a surprise for babies born naturally (except possibly, for those born in water). He probably was just a little surprised, but not traumatised. So please, don't blame yourself for him crying. You didn't let your son down. He will not remember any of it. He does, however, love you because you are his mother and the centre of his world.

God, my pnd was certainly triggered by my sections. I hate it when people say it doesn't matter how the baby is born. It does matter to alot of women and to say it doesn't matter just makes them feel even more crap than they already feel, because they start to feel selfish and ungrateful on top of it all.
Once I had given birth naturally I felt so much better and it did lay those ghosts to rest.
Sanchez, if this information helps, my babies go to about 43 weeks and I have had never had a head engage until labour was well underway. I am a small woman, my babies have BIG heads and I have b irthed the last three without any complications atall. To say that the birth wouldn't happen because you were 42 weeks and no engagment is simply not true and whoever told you that needs to go back and do a bit of homework. I'm guessing it was some silly consultant after an easy life

DS2 wriggling on my knee, so can't do a long post, but big (((((((hugs)))))))) to you. My PND with DS1 was 100% triggered by my c/s. If you look at the VBAC group on yahoo, you will meet lots of women who feel exactly the same way.

vbac yahoo group as mentioned by Laura

I hope all the stuff on this thread has helped Sanchez.

You have my heartfelt sympathies for how your labour went...and it is important to many of us when we have an unexpected CS. I had a 50 hour labour with ds followed by an emergency CS and I agree with others, it IS important how the baby comes, despite our gratitude for having a healthy baby!

I feel I was very very lucky not to have PND after my labour and birth because I do know other people who did have bad PND after this sort of delivery. So you are not at all alone in this.

Definitely talk the birthtrauma, or a counsellor - I went back to talk to my NCT ante natal teacher and that was a very healing experience.

oh and my tummy was sore for AGES afterward, years - ds now 4 and no pain, though still numb.

best wishes x

sanchez, as you can see you are not alone. PN PTSD due to birth trauma is so overlooked by the medical profession. I had thought that I would have a lovely natural birth, was actually looking forward to labor pains and all. Then I went through 30 hours of hell which left me screaming hysterically for a c-section b/c I was convinced they were going to wait until ds1 and (possibly me, too) was dead. As it turned out I was probably correct. Fortunately I got another doctor to come in who finally recognized that ds1 was breech ( at all the others who missed it!) and got him out. There was meconium by then, he was blue and unresponsive at first. It was utterly horrible.

It took me over 2 years to even start to deal with it even though I had been on Ad's since ds1 was 6 months b/c I had started to consider suicide at that time. I cannot recommend Cognitive Behavior Therapy highly enough. It is what is recommended for PTSD. If you're therapist is not using that, or if you just aren't connecting with him/her, please find another. I did not click with my first therapist.

I am amazed to sit here and write that ds2 (8 weeks) is sleeping beside me. I never thought that I would be able to have another child, even though I desperately wanted one. This time it was a planned section from the beginning. I had everyone on board with what happened last time.

The experience was sooo different. Positive in almost every way. It has healed so many wounds and laid many ghosts to rest. I'm not saying that you have to have another child to recover. Not by any means. But, if you have always wanted another, it is possible.

The birth trauma association is a wonderful site and also the TABS site in NZ. As someone else said, read all you can about it. That really helped me a lot. I also participated in two studies on birth trauma. that is what initially got me to write everything down and it was such a release.

Keep posting, talking, writing. You survived a horrible ordeal You are a strong person for making it this far and you can recover from this.

"your" therapist

I've done my own pet peeve

I've had an emergency and a crash c/s but no PND. I think PND can happen to anyone, regardless of the type of birth/baby you have but I'm sure birth trauma of any type makes things even worse. You really shouldn't feel like a failure for the way your baby was born, I approached the whole thing as "having a baby, not a birth" and prepared myself for any potential intervention. I think your GP etc should be more supportive about how you feel and offer you the help you need (via specialists if necessary) for you to get on with your life

Hello lovely Jabberwocky

Well, I?m in tears at all the posts on here, partly because I?m so choked at all the support that is clearly not available in RL, and partly because it saddens me that so many women are going through the same thing. One of the other issues for me was being physically out of control of what was being done to me. I have a fear of being (effectively) held down while someone does something to me that I cannot stop. I have never been able to tell anyone about this?.until now. I have dental phobia because of this, and (foolishly) haven?t had a smear test for years. I cried at every internal examination I had, and every application of gel, whilst the MW and consultant looked at me like I was nuts. The feeling of lying on the op table, not being able to move while someone cut me open makes me go cold, the feeling haunts me and won?t go away.

Sanchez...that is really serious...but i think you know that

is is more likely you have PTSD...and need specialist help with that.....esp re not being able to have smear tests and the fear of being held down....seems that your c.s has left you reeling ...... it is really important to get to the bottom of this and start to come through the other side..seems like you felt it was all out of control and you were subjected to something, rather than being involved IFYSWIM

get a second opinion from the GP..worth paying to see a private doctor? i did when suffering from PND...an hour with them , rather than a 5 minute slot with gp

speak to BTA....

try to find a different counsellor if you can

go through your notes with midwife

find out why physically your tummy hurts..might actually be anxiety related, but need to rule out physical cause

get support, from DH, friends, family whoever it might be, to come with you and hold your hand through this

I am ok with dentists(hate going for other reasons)but smears are a no no for me too.
I am ashamed to admit that I have never actually had one.
Having to have 21 internals was one of the worst things for me too.I definately understand the lack of control thing & have realised that it is a necessity for me to be in control to feel safe.

Hi lully!

Sanchez, I can totally empathize with the fear of losimg control of your body. One of my worst memories is that, once we finally went in for the section, they proceeded to strap down my wrists. It was really awful and one of the first things that I went over this time around. No way was I going to go through that again!

Sanchez, I agree with Lulumama (I'm always saying that these days!).
I'm sure that for many women the worst bit about giving birth is the loss of control and the feeling that things are being done to them. The problem is that at the time, the whole thing is so overwhelming that it is hard to say what you want or to ask the questions that you need answered in order to understand what is going on. It's a good idea to get them answered now if you can.

I don't know if anyone has suggested it already, but have you thought of ringing Birth Crisis ? It might help to talk it through with them.

I really hope you feel better soon .

same here.
Thought I would at least be able to hold Dh's hand for support.
That really choked me & couldn't understand how I was going to hold Ds when they delivered him with my hands strapped down.
But never got to anyway

Me too...

Was 36 weeks, pre eclampsia. Induced, if BP fell could have natural birth. It did, but dd became distressed. Was told we have to get baby out NOW. Emerg c-section under ga. Last image was of dh with tear rolling down his face as they took me in to theatre. that image, more than anything make me cry even now.

I hated the days, months that followed.

When people talk of their babies first cry/first pooey nappy. I have no idea what they mean. I didn't even get to hold for 12 hours & then only for 10 minutes. Got her 24 hours after that.

I wasn't the first to see her, hold her, feed her, change her nappy, dress her. Dh took ages to decide he wanted to cut the cord when baby was born, delt with guilt over that too. Felt like I failed her. Couldn't breastfeed...failed her again...

I can't remember most of ds1's infancy Dh is always saying "Remember when he did x or y?" I just give him a blank look most of the time. Life passed in a blur of pain in those days.