Can a man have PND

[gazsm]

So on another forum on here. Ive just been told i cant have post natal depression because im a man.

Only woman get PND The poster says. Men just get depression.

Ive been diagnosed and am undergoing treatment for PND. So i don't really know where they get off saying this.

Im only just coming to terms with what i have and this really threw me. (Upset me).

If it helps, many of us think PND is an unhelpful term. People can come to us up until their child is 2 years old, by which time it's not only physical trauma and and causes that bring people to us. It is e.g. the feeling of lack of support/help with caring for baby, loneliness, identity change, sleep deprivation, loss of income and/or partnership difficulties that make people seek help. Many are traumatised by birth and/or pregnancy, but not all. We accept self-referrals and referrals from HCPs, SWs, etc., so do not generally work with diagnoses, but people's symptoms/problems.

We are going to soon call our service "perinatal", yes.

Forgot to add, having volunteered with mums (and dads!) with PND I have seen that it is not always caused by hormones. To say that it is (and use that to preclude men from identifying themselves as PND sufferers) kinda belittles the experiences of people who are suffering from PND not caused by hormonal changes or imbalances.

Yeah I agree with other posters in that men can get PPD but its slightly different in that its triggered by situation and not hormones. (some womens PPD is also triggered by situation as well but its just that for some women it can be a total hormonal thing) I think a lot of the things that can trigger womens PPD are also things that men will go through as well- massive lack of sleep, sudden intense responsibility, guilt, anxiety about parenthood, anxiety about their relationship, suddenly having a new identity...... but there are also things that will be unique to men and women for example severe physical trauma from the birth is unique to women, as are the hormonally induced mood swings..... men may experience feeling really powerless to help when they see their partner suffer birth trauma and that can be a trigger for depression, they might feel rejected or be jealous of the baby........... but yeah basically it can be an incredibly hard time for a man or a woman and both can get very depressed and overwhelmed. I think the real difference is when it comes to more extreme forms of PPD. Women who have no previous history of mental illness can become incredibly unwell. I used to work for an agency who provided support workers for a mother and baby ward and some of the women on that ward were so ill they didn't even recognise their own children thought they were demons or snakes and would try and attack them. That's not something ive ever heard of happening to a man and I think its hormonally induced. You can tell its very different to other types of depression because of how quickly or suddenly women will recover from it, they can go from being completely psychotic to back to their normal in months. That's not something you often see with other types of mental illness.
I had PND (very briefly PNP) and if it helps you at all it was very intense to begin with but it didn't last and eventually I did feel a rush of love towards my baby and I did feel back to my old self. It must be very hard for you having twins. Just try and not feel guilty about feeling as you do, its very common and it usually doesn't last. You aren't a fraud. It doesn't matter what label anyone choses to give what you are going through it doesn't make it any less real. I think you are brave for going to your doctors and trying to sort it out.

Thetoys can you explain why you think saying that men get PND is a feminist move?

It's a feminist move because it 'proves' that women aren't hormones crazies driven biologically by the effect of hundreds of ovarian hormones on their brains.
Unfortunately for me, I am one of those crazies who had zero environmental factors in severe PND. Life couldn't have been better. Beautiful pregnancy and birth, breastfeeding working out perfectly.
To acknowledge that hormones, for some women, can seriously affect their mental health, seems to be an issue for some feminists. It does a disservice to women who really suffer at times such as puberty, pregnancy, postnatally and perimenopause.

OP, I hope you feel better very soon. My own DH certainly felt the effects of my illness, coupled with the upheaval of a new baby it was a rough time. But it will get better for you.

I also have a problem with men being diagnosed with PND when they have not and never will have given birth. This doesn't belittle them experiencing depression in any way shape or form, but it does take away something from the significant impact on female mental health that being pregnant and giving birth can trigger.

What is next? Men being diagnosed with puerperal psychosis if they have a psychotic episode after their wife has had a child? Both would be serious events, but one has nothing to do with the other.

Depression is a horrible thing to have and to experience, but there is a huge difference to depression triggered by lack of sleep and a life changing events and stress, and depression that has roots in all of those things plus the significant physical and hormonal changes that a woman goes though during pregnancy and birth.

I find that "it's not just hormones" comes up a lot in this context, but I never thought my experiences were "just hormones".

Physical recovery from pregnancy and childbirth are also implicated but also this:
" It is e.g. the feeling of lack of support/help with caring for baby, loneliness, identity change, sleep deprivation, loss of income and/or partnership difficulties that make people seek help."

Generally, women are FAR more impacted by all of these in terms of ability to fulfil day to day roles. In the VAST majority of cases, caring roles are fulfilled predominantly or exclusively by women. The VAST majority of men do not lose contact with adults on a day to day basis because of becoming a parent to the same extent that very many women do. The VAST majority of men do not provide sole night-time care for infants or toddlers while trying to manage other work or caring roles. The VAST majority of men don't suffer loss of income. Partnership difficulties can happen to anyone at any time of life and are only relevant in a perinatal context if they impact on the support available for caring for a child. Men's parental identity isn't usually subject to the same pressures, either in the community or the media. All of these things provide a different context for depression around parenting for men and women - they do not of course mean men do not experience depression related to parenting or do not require support.

Hormones and the body are not irrelevant, but the broader contextual features, though they can theoretically impact on men, probably do so more infrequently - and pretending this isn't the case in the rush to be PC is not a "feminist" move.

All people suffering from depression deserve adequate support and evidence-based medical and psychological care. That doesn't mean men need a specialised perinatal service, though, given how few women in the UK can access one when in need of support with things like calibration of medication in pregancy and breastfeeding.

When my dp is feeling depressed, I also get maudlin. It shouldn't let it affect me as they need support but it seems we are so in tune with each other we bring each other down .. or up as the case may be..