I got 'that' close to hurting ds last night...

[MrsBojangles]

on-going saga that ds (2.2) just won't sleep.

Been up and down like a yoyou all night and up properly since 0400 and go 'so' close to hurting him it's not funny.

Obviously stopped myself, but did 'cuddle' him very firmly, you know the desperate kind of hold very tightly wimpering 'please be quiet and go back to sleep', then resorted to flick to bottom (which he isn't phased about as he's well padded with nappy) and then getting loud telling him to go to sleep (not very constructive is it).

Doesn't help that I had a tooth extraction yesterday and am in agony.

DH generally helps during night stints but had to go to work at 0400.

Getting so desperate that a friend of a friend is concocting some sleep oil for ds and tbh I don't even care what's in it as long as it makes him sleep!

Close to going back to GP to be put back on AD's though that's no real solution as I'm not really depressed. Low yes, but not in full bloom depression. all I need is for ds to sleep but GP won't help in that respect as all they say is 'give him piriton or phergan' which both don't work on ds.

On top of that dd (4.11) has hacking cough that won't go away (GP lungs are clear, no problem here) so the poor mite is coming into our bed most nights which results in even less sleep.

Went on holiday without dh and kids end-September but all the benefits wore of about 2 days after being back.

Not expecting any pearls of wisdom, just had to off-load. Thanks for reading

God, lack of sleep is so hard to handle, MrsBojangles. Has he always been a bad sleeper? Makes you feel at such a low ebb if you're constantly exhausted...

Do you leave ds cry himself to sleep?

Hi dinny, yes he's always been a bad sleeper and so was dd when she was small. I'm not a believer of controlled crying but did try a 'mild' form of it, which resulted in him making himself sick and me not only having to take him out of bed but also having to change him and the bedding . The most frustrating thing is he 'behaves' a bit better for dh, i.e. dh goes in and tells him to go back to sleep ds gives a brief wimper but then turns around and goes back to sleep for a little while.

We're aleady 'taken away' his night bottels and replaced them with water. Taken him to GP to see if anything is wrong with him, bar being bl**dy pigheaded and wanting to annoy mama

ds has allways been bad at his sleep but thats down to his ASD, whats his daytime routine like?? does he have a sleep during the day? what time does he go down to sleep??

redbullandbump daytime routine is
drop off at nursery 0815 (he loves it there) where they havea fairly structured day, lunch at 12:00 nap straight after for about 1h or so, sometimes he sleeps longer but even if he doesn't sleep he won't sleep any better at night, we tried...

Evening bedtime had slipped to 2100 because dh was coming home late but now it's back to 1900

if i was you i would try to cut out the sleep during the day and pushing bedtime back by doing both it should make him more tired and more likely to sleep in for longer, like i said allthough ds sleep problems are down to his ASD he used to at your ds age have a sleep in the day for 1 hour then go down at 9 and would be wide awake at 3

i then cut out his sleep and pushed bedtime to 10 this then let him sleep through to 5;30 / 6.

i know what its like to go with out sleep and its horrid and you just snap when you dont mean it its natural to do that. but maybe if your ds did sleep in a bit more then you would feel a bit better, still go to the doctors of course i wish i could go back on my AD but they took me of them as i am pregnant.

congrats on being pg
Will suggest to nursery to try and keep him awake and the try and keep him up later (no problem actually but we so wanted our evenings back iykwim) I feel like such a horrid parent atm

please dont get thinking that,
you are not are a horrid parent, i can rerember crying and pleading with ds to go back to sleep, having depresiion is really tough and horrible but it just makes you worse when you cant get any sleep as well, it magnifies the way you are feeling.

I know what you mean about having the evening to your self as well, you feel as though you have no time to relax and no me and dp time, i really simpahise as well with ds only mainly listening to dp my ds is the same its like mommy is all loving but daddy means business!!

and its also difficult as simular to your dp my dp sometimes has to be out to work at 4 in the morning and doesnt get home till 6 or 7 sometimes as he works on the roads doing lane closures and that sort of stuff so sometimes it feels that we never have any us time as what time ds goes to sleep.
but i know if he went down to sleep earlier not only wouldnt he get to see his daddy much but from lack of sleep me and dp would be at each others throat as well.

Go and see your doctor like you said and im sure after some good sleep you will feel a lot better, maybe have you got a family member that would be willing evry so often to have the kids over night so you and dp can have some together time, my mom and dasd will have ds once or twice a month to help us. Or get a baby sitter once a month and go out with dp just for a meal down at your local chinease or balti house??

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Not the most politically correct of replies, but I had similar with my DS - we did not have a single nights undisturbed sleep for nearly 2 years - from the moment he was born he just never needed sleep like other babies. He also threw up every time we did controlled crying.

solution (suggested by dr, and I have also seen it in a modern toddler book) is to do controlled crying with sedation. when he gets up first at 11pm or whenever give him a drink with sedation and then do the controlled crying routine. you will have to go in and out for 30 minutes (and dont leave it so long between gaps that he gets overly hysterical and vomits) and then the sedation will kick in and he will fall asleep. Sedation should keep him asleep for a good few hours. then repeat each night. our dr said to do it for up to a week, but we only needed to do it for 3 nights - our DS slept through the 4th by imself. It works by instilling in him the 'routine' of sleeping by himself. You can get the sedative on prescription or try medised or phenagon as I think they have similar ingredients (I'd prefer to take what dr recommends first and try that - you may need ot switcth the sedative as some kids react differently to certain sedatives and go hyper instead). I swear it worked for us within 3 nights. Our Ds still needs less sleep than any other child we know but a 5am start is ok if you've slept all night....

By the way, I bet a cranial osteopath will be able to help your DD's cough.

thanks for all your posts, feeling a bit better about myself now.

Redbullandbump, we have no family here. Mine is in Germany and dh's in Nz, so not an option for a quick stint of babysitting

Pitchounette, funny you should say that. When I was away for a week having a break before I break, iykwim, he nearly had ds sleeping 6h straight (miracle that is!), but as soon as I was back... bammm, screaming banshee. Guess ds 'know's that mum is more of a soft touch than dad. dh only gets up for work that early about once every 2-3 months so that's not what's waking him If it only were that easy. Potentially could be dd's snoring that wakes him up??? How do I get her to a cranial whatchamacallit?

DH does get up a lot for ds and is close to collapsing himself, so don't feel I can leave it all to him. Though with the sedation technique it might work. Have sleep potion coming from aromatherapist. Will also go and see GP again. Last time they weren't very helpful though even though I told him medised and phenergan do nothing to calm ds down, if anything it makes the nights worse! Even have ds on Horlicks, which he loves, but so much for 'aids a resful nights sleep'...

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Oh I know exactly how you feel. I had months and months of this and in the end I just gave in an now when ds wakes I just let him sleep in our bed. It is probably not the best solution but I have more sleep this way and I am 100% calmer than I was before. Ds will sleep right through until morning once he comes into our bed.

I would definitely drop the nap in the day as well it might take a while to make a difference but within a week ds was going to bed at 7.00 without a fight.

if he sleeps better for dh i would let him deal with it tbh.

is there anyway he can arrange with work to start l8r.

Pitchounette don't think dd would let anybody manipulate her head! She's in hysterics when I try do her hair!

nogoes ds in our bed = even less sleep because I get loving hugs (python style) and 'mama' 'mama' in raptured voice for hours on end! If I join him in his bed, which I try to avoid but sometimes I just keel over with exhaustion he twiddles my hair and I'm sure I'm developing a bald patch!

lovemygirls dh normally doesn't start that early it's just when it's deployments which are better done when most people still sleep (he's in IT). I wouldn't mind getting up at 050 if ds wants to if I would get 6h sleep in one go! is that too much to ask?

Had 'fun' trying to get ds down tonight. DH is out, which is good because his social life is practically non-existant. DS is definitely deaf on the 'listen to mama' ear! Also goes 'bear' in almost crying voice, so I give him bear, which then duly gets catapulted out of bed again with him pointing and saying in nearly crying voice again 'bear'... you get the picture?

In the end though he was lying in his bed, arms wrapped vice like around my leg and head resting on my knee and 5 mins later he was blissfully snoring. Had a few niggles from his room but I'm ignoring...

does you ds drop off with you still in the room? I only ask because my ds used to wake in the night 5/6 times - sometimes hourly. I also used to stay with him until he went to sleep. After I had dd we changed the bedtime routine and once he was being left whilst still awake his nightime waking was also cured. He now (a year later) sleeps straight through from 7 'till 6 most nights - waking once in the night probably 2/3 times per week max.

raggydoll, I used to stay, but now I leave while he's still sort of semi-conscious, say a friendly but firm 'good night' and leave the room with pointedly closing the door. So far he's still sleeping, but sounds like he's getting the same cough his sister has... blast!

I own a health shop and can give you some advice on herbal remedies that might help him, if you're interested?
they worked really well for our ds, although they will not work for everyone. they are suitable for age 2 and over, have no side effects.

Thanks Snowglow, might come back to that offer a friend has a friend who does herbal and had mixed her some concoction that helped with her lo. So I've got a loadof that coming too

If everything else fails I'll ask the GP for happy drugs for me! Though I'm just munching on the next best thing... mars ice cream bar

It's totally killing, isn't it? Neither of my dds slept well, with dd1 I did gradual with drawl and with dd2 I did that plus rapid return I never thought dd2 would ever be happy sleeping on her own but she is.

I also found Naturally Nurturing sleep clinic helpful. You can google their website - they are doing a sleep CD with a free half hour consultation.

just in case i'm not around, I'll post the advice now!

Bioforce valerian-hops. drops to aid sleeping and relaxing. fantastic, (they were such a good help for ds). use 2 drops for a 2 yr old. add it to a tablespoon of any liquid (juice, milk etc), about an hour before bedtime.

put a drop of pure lavender oil on each side of his pillow, every night (we also add some "sleepy drops" to the top of teddy's head every now and then)

Rhodiola is great for stress, tension, tiredness, insomnia, depression, feeling under-the-weather. Solgar and Quest are 2 good brands. they moght take a few weeks to work, but they are excellent and have no side effects at all. ( although, do not take if you are on AD's)
(this is for you, btw, not baby... )

ask away, if you want any more info.
these are all from a health shop

thanks Sno... I was on Kalms (valerian & hopps and something else I think) and St J Worth for a while just to chill! Problem was then my dentist gave me erithromycin and I had a major reaciton. He's blaiming the SJW

Have tried pure lavender oil in water on radiator to no avail. shall dowse teddy!

Nearly3... dd was notoriously bad sleeper too till she was 3.5! So I've had 5 years of sleep deprivation and it's defo getting to me.

So what am I doing on here when both kids are asleep and dh is out? I shoul be in bed. BUT enjoying quiet time on PC without having to fight dh for it LOL

mrsB...get to bed NOW and get some sleep...at one stage I went to bed at around 8.30 everynight!

the valerian-hops suggestion was for your ds,btw, just in case that wasnt clear

yes m'am
well the valerian and hopps chilled me so those drops might do the trick for him. Will try the sleep concoction from friend's friend first and if that fails will get those drops.

I really love mn

just log out of mumsnet and slowly back away from the computer...when he wakes up later you'll wish you'd gone to bed earlier (so speaks the voice of experience!)

and speaking of which, have had a staggerinly (is that even a word } mad day today, so am off to bed

sweet dreams and thanks and I had a staggeringly mad day too... car went in for MOT and is till there because it failed ARGH. So had to do the school/nursery runs on foot. Adds 1h each end! Sleepybyes for me too