Fed Up With BPD Stigma - Anyone Else?

[Butterflywings168]

Just that really. I have had it with this
The attitude of mental health services that people unlucky enough to be labelled with this are a waste of space, attention-seeking, liars, fakers, manipulative, don't take responsibility, not really mentally ill and in control and just choosing to behave badly, not as deserving of help as people with other diagnoses or of help at all...(oh and of course actual other diagnoses that person has get overlooked.)
I have lost count of the times I have said I experience x and been told oh no you don't dear, or that's normal (when no, it isn't). Told aw dear sorry you want to die but go and bother the Samaritans instead of us, or go and have a bath and a cup of tea, you're not really ill.
I have lies in my notes - because I have the BPD label I must be druggie alcoholic and promiscuous, um, I am actually fairly mousy, have had a puff of weed precisely twice as a student, went through a phase of using alcohol to deal with depression and anxiety I wasn't getting help with so now barely drink, didn't even sleep with anyone until university and have actually always been sensible and have very little experience because you know, being too socially anxious and self-hating to go out doesn't lend itself to meeting people, but my saying I wasn't interested in a serious relationship at that time to cover up my shame and embarrassment at my LACK of experience has been taken as the opposite.
They really just view everything you say and do through the lens of that you are evil BPD scum.

I have virtually given up on the prospect of getting any help. I will just have to try and drag myself through this alone.

Yes, I have had private psychotherapy. After the NHS fobbed me off with counselling and CBT, admitted that wasn't enough, put me on a waiting list, 18 months later I finally got an appointment...I asked to change it because it was early morning and was then told I couldn't (because I must be lazy BPD scum right, not that I was on heavy medication and had physical health issues that made it difficult to get up) and then got a letter discharging me basically telling me I was a piece of scum who didn't want therapy to work and was impulsive (when I have always been trying to fight self-harm and suicide attempts, and planned them for a long time but hey, don't let the reality get in the way of what services decide to see).
Do not talk about DBT. It is victim-blaming shit. I have social anxiety, I don't want to talk about personal crap in a room full of strangers! And it is no more than the usual 'have a cup of tea' crap anyway ie 'you lazy idiot, why won't you help yourself'. I once went for an assessment, tried to explain to woman about above-mentioned issue with getting up, told to get an alarm clock. Oh, wow, I bow down in gratitude to that thought! It's not like I worked full-time for several years before becoming mentally and physically ill and strangely enough managed to get in on time! No, I have the BPD label so must be lazy scum who can't get off my arse! Of course I didn't want to help myself so much I paid money I couldn't really afford for private therapy. But mention of my NHS diagnosis sounded the death knell to that, too. No-one wants to work with people with the BPD label.

Not to mention the general public perception that we are evil bunny boilers.

Helpful when these are people who already have a very negative image of themselves.

So I thought I would start a venting/ mutual support thread...anyone?

PDs (not just BPD) are very challenging because thoughts and behaviours have been years and years in the making, and can't just be changed in a few short-term therapy sessions funded by the NHS.

But; longterm therapy costs too much (so you don't get it), staff may not have enough time to build a strong therapeutic relationship with you (to build trust etc) and it can be easier (and cheaper) to push people through the short 'MacTherapy' machine and write them off due to their PD if they don't come out sunny side up after a few sessions.

I think a large part of the 'prejudice' towards PDs is because it seen as an emotional development rather than mental health problem as it can't be fixed with meds - so the unlucky ones get written off as a poor return on investment.

That all said, I'm in longterm (self funded) therapy and am making sustained progress.

And Nana - Mindfulness is the new black!!!

Cream my therapist didn't start addressing my PD issues until my depression had improved as she felt I wasn't up to it. So, we did some work around lifting my depression first, stabilising my Meds and only then moved onto working on my PD issues. I think if she has started on the PD issues first I would have bolted. Just a thought.

Looks like I have a lot to look forward to Very early days and hoping to see the phsycologist next week to pull it all together, then look at ongoing care / support plan.
Interestingly I did read that hospitalisation for suicidal BPD patients can actually make things worse and am sure that is what has happened to me!
Crisis team are trying but there is nothing they can actually do - they told me one of their nick names from patients is "can't really help team"
Ended up in a&e again over the weekend as went off and Crisis team called the police who eventually found me and carted me off to hospital. Lovely doctor there asked if there was anything she could that moment to help but didn't give me drugs to knock me out for a few days as I suggested! Did tho let me stay in and chill for 12 hours which I think did help.
I got the "go for a walk/ have a bath" comment from the crisis team last week too - the ones who know me know better but he didn't so I got the generic answer.
Still struggling with the idea that I have to work at getting myself better - not yet at the stage that I want to ...
Good to hear others' experience with this

I was hospitalised twenty years ago. Spent 7 months in a therapeutic community. It saved my life but didn't give me all the answers. I'm still struggling with the same stuff although until my latest 'breakdown' I've done quite well and worked in the same job and brought up my kids etc. Tomorrow I have my next group therapy session and today I've enrolled on an alcohol / drug programme.

What I hate the most about BPD is the association with bad / evil / dirty. As an abused child what say did I get in that ? Sorry if that's a bit too much.

My life choices since my childhood haven't been great which is my responsibility but, I do think sometimes that people don't account for the start you have in life. BPD is a total life wrecker Or can be, at this late stage I feel I'm on my last chance to deal with it all.

Gosh, nearly started this thread myself last week!

DBT strikes me as invalidating rubbish - perhaps it depends on how it's done though. I read the DBT manual and it's all stuff I KNOW, but the problem is I don't FEEL it, I actually feel quite manipulated by people (whereas I try to be honest) and just exhausted keeping up the act. And my main problem is and has always been just feeling overwhelmed and terrified, feels like hands squeezing the breath out of me as I feel so trapped and scared and everything spins and fills with all the bad things and all the times I've felt trapped, and just overwhelming shame at daring to exist and not be perfect (though I fucking try!) And I'm surrounded by people who aren't the perfect DBT-manual-people but they are happy, so I'm thinking DBT is missing something!

I told the GP and others the above when I first went for help a decade ago - no severe self-harm, no suicide attempt, just me begging for help. I might have Aspergers, as it turns out - but no professional has ever suggested that or done more than just blame and invalidate me.

I was once in the GP's, about 10 years ago, begging for help. GP was lovely until she got my notes up on screen (which I could see). There was a sort of dialog box that had a 'warning' about me on there! I can't recall it precisely but it was pure stigma - said something like "attention seeking". She hurriedly turned the screen away before I could read it properly. Anyway I kept begging for help (at this point I'd been officially taken on by the team but they didn't DO anything) and she was just cold, telling me to get out. Suddenly lots of people rushed in and grabbed me, turned out Evil GP had pressed the panic button! I got struck off and barred from registering with any GP's in the area, for "violence". There was no violence, apart from the emotional blows to my already fragile soul. Ha. Look at that BPD overdramatisation

I was also barred from council housing (including emergency hostel) as they told the depatment I "wasnt mentally ill" and just demanding. I even tried to do some voluntary work designed for people with MH issues and my CPN wouldn't sign the form to confirm I was under MH services.

I can't write more or it will identify me, but suffice it to say I sensibly and politely asked for help after many years (teenage) of struggling, and they took my problems and compounded them, adding layers of fear and trauma, and a paper trail that lost me my vocational career. I have nightmares and intrusive memories about the things that happened AFTER asking for help.

Oh, and finally - for those asking about what should be done, or what is it we want? I don't know for definite, more a suggestion... but the general population sems to have an expectation of psych treatment/hospital, so I think maybe we want/need that? I mean, the idea of a hopsital being the place you go when it's all getting too much, where you could speak to psychologists and do therapeutic things and work through what you're feeling in a supportive environment. A safe haven for nurturing and re-parenting. I know hospital isn't like that, but I think subconsciously that's what people are after. Given the higher level of psychological awareness in the general population over time, it's a bit of a shock to see people essentially being labelled "hysteric" by services as if it we the 1800's. Massivey invalidating and hysteria-inducing in itself!

Anyway, I digress, a lot of the problem is that society has become too individualistic whereas a lot of people with the unfortunate BPD label have needs that wouldn't have developed if they'd had a wider comunity to draw on growing up, and perhaps wouldn't be so apparent in a caring community now. So it falls to psych services. And always - more so now - overstretched services are the opposite of the nurturing environment so many are crying out for. And I believe it is this that is essential before healing/re-learning can take place.

It all reminds me of a comment on a blog I read ages ago, something along the lines of "What helps BPD?" This bloke has commented saying tht he thought a loving, caring relationship was the best thing. He wrote that his ex-wife had BPD, and she was never more stable and working through things than when she was with him. I think he mentioned cuddling her when she had bad memories or something like that.

I've written a bloody essay here, oops... So I'll just say, trauma is not dealt with well by psych services, or even recognised in many contexts.

Just popping my head around the door - I posted earlier today, new thread, regarding how fed up and fucked off I am with having BPD. Only recently diagnosed, but oh yes, the stigma. It really fucks me off - my instinct is to be honest about my diagnosis, not just to be authentic (essential, given the shame this bstard illness induces in us) but also to stand up and be counted to try and challenge prejudice - yet I'm kind of damned if I do , damned if I don't, as the minute you have that label slapped on you it's as if a pane of glass has been craftily inserted between you and the person you're talking to - they'll never admit it, but something has changed*. The minute you cross that line and say 'I have got BPD' it becomes an arm length jobby. So what to do? Hide it and be treated normally? Or admit to it and be seen as 'other'? Hobson's Choice, I think you call that. I lost a very much loved and valued friend because of that kind of stigma. I stopped being 'me in her eyes, and became 'other'. I was devastated. Yes, one could say who needs friends like that, and yes, you'd probably be right. It was going from feeling understood, to realising that actually I wasn't understood at all - that devastated me. Anyone with BPD will know exactly what I mean by that as we spend our whole lives feeling isolated and 'other'

caravanstar79 So what to do? Hide it and be treated normally? Or admit to it and be seen as 'other'? Hobson's Choice, I think you call that.

So true. So difficult when quetions arise as to your diagnosis, or more likely why services seem to be doing eff all. The worst part I find is, I've had so many deeply distressing experiences with services, but I cant' really tell anyone or explain because I won't be believed. (Hmm abuse similarity, anyone?) And I could probably explain if I explain the whole stigma of BPD and previously (pre 2007) how it meant exclusion from services. But I daren't, because they will trot off and google BPD... and we know what happens if you do that.

I don't agree with my diagnosis, but regardless I'm terrified of anyone finding out in case they use it against me. (This has happened). Even if you can explain your problems to someone in everyday language without the labels, if they want to intervene and contact MH professionals (because they're aghast at how you're treated), or try to convince you to go to hospital, you cant let them advocate for you becaue they'll be fed a pack of lies and stigma.

In my experience, professionals love taking the concerned friend aside and being all softy lovely and empathetic to them about how difficult it must be knowing you, and then God knows what else they say, they like to take them out of earshot. And you cannot stop them; or you sound paranoid. This all means you have to suffer in silence and not have support from friends when low (because they rightly think you need professional help). Ugh.

Labelling someone BPD is like giving them a big, fucking dirty secret. Helpful.

''Labelling someone BPD is like giving them a big, fucking dirty secret.''

• isn't it just.

And the way it colours perceptions makes me want to bang my head against a wall - if I said this as a non- bpd person, it'd sound a bit like 'ooh, she's frustrated, wanting to bang her head against a brick wall, figure of speech innit' - but drop that bpd label into the mix and it takes on a different slant 'ooh, she wants to bang her head against a brick wall? Self harming, quick let's section her. They do this to get attention you know. Over the top dramatic' - and then I have to do my 'bend over backwards to convince whoever I'm talking to that I am actually sane' thing.

The other day I wanted to raise a (legitimate) complaint with my local hospital about the 22 month waiting list for CBT. Not just for me but in general, for everyone needing that service.

You betcha my diagnosis came up in that conversation. And you betcha my legitimate complaint is now filed under 'highly strung/BPD type throwing hissy fit, cause they do that'.

I'm giving up all hope of ever being 'seen' as a normal human being. Considering packing myself off to the nearest freak show and being done with it.

I think BPD is midunderstood because people sometimes can't be arsed to understand it. I am writing as the friend of a person with BPD. I understand my insights might be a bit off or offensive but I'm prepared to learn more.

After so much of my friends behaviour towards me, such as manipulation, over analysing everything I would say and constantly playing the victim, I was at the point of just believing all the shit on the Internet and brushing it off as that. But I can't. I believe some people use their diagnosis to make excuses for themselves and some people do not make an effort with opportunities of treatment. Is this right or wrong I want to know? It seems like it in the case of my friend and another

person I know who was diagnosed. But I want to understand it properly and not blame severe behaviour solely on the BPD. My friend is also a very dedicated, receptive and loving mother to her dc's. I don't know what else to say really. I cannot be around her anymore due to certain behaviours but I feel it's a cop out on my part. Where is the boundary? I love this bright interesting person who I share so much in common with and who is so articulate and thoughtful. Then I equally abhor this person who makes me walk on eggshells, randomly blows up at me for things I've apparently done and critiques what I say negatively. I'm at a loss.

This is a tricky one Foxie Loxie. My own take on this is that we are all different, BPD or not. It isn't 'one size fits all'. The difficulty that I have experienced is that once that label is applied, pretty much all behaviour is then viewed in relation to that diagnosis. It becomes impossible to just have a response to anything - because that response tends to get viewed in relation to the bpd. People without bpd don't to deal with that. They can just have reactions to things, without anyone reading anything into it. It's times like this I question if this diagnosis is actually helpful at all.

I think labels are really only useful in identifying areas to work on. My own personal take on my bpd is that it is no excuse for me blowing up at anyone or being abusive. Emotional abuse isn't ok full stop, with or without a bpd label slapped on it. That's about boundaries, not diagnostic criteria, and boundaries need to apply to all relationships, surely?

I have had the egg shell thing levelled at me; I can understand why, I have suffered badly with mood swings and I can change my mind from morning to evening. I can be impulsive. I believe that these things are part of my condition. I am something of a recluse as I find friendships too challenging at the moment. Also, in truth, I find 'normal' people perplexing, and they hurt.

I have no idea what to suggest re: your friend, you'll know what's the right thing to do.

The difficulty that I have experienced is that once that label is applied, pretty much all behaviour is then viewed in relation to that diagnosis.

Yes - there was a woman on a TV programme I saw earlier, labelled with personality disorder (they didn't say which one), describing a detailed suicide plan involving a medication overdose and a physical act. Clearly preplanned, premeditated, she was obviously distressed, seemed very depressed and described this plan. The doctor referred to the possibility of her carrying it out as her doing "something impulsive". I wonder if the doctor would describe her quiet, careful, suicidal despair and planning as " impulsive" without that diagnostic label.

Yyy Happy. Been there so many times. Makes you wonder if the know what impulsive means, but all they see is the label

Oh FFS how did the stray smiley get in there, talk about inappropriate. I meant they obvs.

Welcome and so sorry to hear of your crappy experiences caravan and element

Thankyou ButterflyWings168 - it's good to connect up with other mumsnetters who have been given this lovely diagnosis (not).

Yes - HappySpills, that's exactly my point - the woman with the detailed suicide plan , who was clearly depressed - um, this sounds like a very normal reaction to severe depression to me, yet with a bpd label in the mix it becomes 'impulsive' Ri-ght. Good to know that the priority is further labelling and creating distance, that's helpful.

Tbh I get extremely frustrated with the medical profession with regards to BPD, and I think with good reason. Most people with bpd, I would guess, havn't exactly had the sunniest starts in life. Given what we know now about what causes bpd t would seem that those of us with it cannot actually help having it - it's all in the development of the limbic system innit? Chuck a hefty dollop of dysfunctional family of origin on there, and, god forbid, abuse, and voila - bpd central. But isn't bpd a very expected reaction to having to deal with such a shit start in life? Its the mind and soul's way of coping, of trying to manage that which no small child should ever have to cope or deal with : ( Just doesn't work so well in adulthood, all backfires and the wotsit hits the proverbial fan. Which brings a whole new level of bpd-related pain that those non-bpd-ers have no perception of. Truthfully, I'd like to see the try to deal with it. I bet they'd soon be rushing for the anti depressants to curve that 'impulsive' suicidal behaviour.

I begrudgingly accept my diagnosis not because I am in denial (I know exactly how fucked up I am thankyou ; ) ) but because it's been useful OUTSIDE of the system in terms of ordering books to help myself. What I have (so far) received from within the system has been useless and non-existent, tbh.

I also question the whole set up - pathologising people who have had appalling cards dealt in life, and then furthermore stigmatising us within the system. Hm, that really makes us feel safe doesn't it. But don't say that or else they'll call you paranoid : )

I think the way we are is a very normal reaction to what we've been dealt in life. It doesn't fit in with how the majority of the population deal with things/life so of course we feel out on a limb/lost. And yes to taking responsibility fr ourselves, not affecting anyone else adversely, but that goes for everyone in life , right? That's just known as taking responsibility for one's own behaviour. That's just known as emotional maturity innit? That's what I strive for, in all of this. There needs to be help - I always felt like I did not know how to live - and I didn't, because no one taught me. I used to feel as if I was from another planet, I just didn't understand how other people behaved, they seemed to know 'the rules' and play these games - this is ok to do, that isn't type of thing - wt actual f? That's why it hurts when people say, for example, oh, you're manipulative/attention seeking - I'm thinking huh?? I was just being honest. How can they see manipulation/attention seeking in that? Then I realise it's because I'm not playing the games, reacting to life the way they all do, in these 'socially acceptable' ways. I'm to heart on sleeve, apparently. If that makes sense. I often get called too sensitive too, like being sensitive and empathetic and feeling compassion for others is a fault. I feel like saying 'I'm an artist ffs (I am - I paint) - it goes with the fucking territory. And the bpd ; )

At times I feel like I have to spend my whole life apologising to society and the medical profession for being myself.

And they wonder why we have low self esteem.

caravanstar79 That's why it hurts when people say, for example, oh, you're manipulative/attention seeking - I'm thinking huh?? I was just being honest. How can they see manipulation/attention seeking in that? Then I realise it's because I'm not playing the games, reacting to life the way they all do, in these 'socially acceptable' ways.

I can never understand this. Don't professionals know about people presenting with obscure problems and having to unpick them? Why do they seem to have less clue than the general population on psychological matters? And, ffs, can't they see that someone will be honest if they truly want help? Why is it less 'manipulative' to play by weird rules? And, more to the point, what the hell are the rules to get help, support and treatment?

What I mean is, in my experience it's like they just look at you and make a snap judgement - "you're BPD" - then everything is twisted to fit/confirm the diagnosis. What the hell are they expecting you to do to make them think you're not BPD after all? (I've seen people who are way more "BPD"ish than me but carry a different diagnosis - particularly men with depression/anxiety - and they are treated so differently.)

If say, someone with depression was randomy labelled BPD (as an experiment) and shoved into services, how would they act that would make services realise they didn't fit the BPD profile? It's impossibe. Because the dismissive and judgemental way the person would be treated would lead to (a) suicide, or (b) a reaction that would 'confirm' BPD. Psych not listening/twisting things and coming to bizarre conclusions? - no matter how politely you explain (thinking they'll want a clear picture), you get called "manipulative" or "argumentative". Concern over treatment (because you're not getting any)? - you're "disagreeable" or "unwilling to engage". All this making you suicidal or driving you to self-harm? - you're "impulsive" and "attention-seeking". Honestly, treat someone like they've got BPD and you'll have someone who starts displaying 'BPD' behaviours. Or is dead. Well done!

Oh, and then there's the fact that it's impossible to 'get it right' in the view of services. Ask for help and you're "needy", "attention-seeking" etc. Resort, in desperation, to destructive coping mechanisms like self-harm, or break down completely, or lose a relationship because the person is so frustrated and angry with you for not functioning... and you're criticised for it. So what, precisely, are they expecting? Surely being able to ask for support before things completely unravel is the first step in the right direction? Sure, ultimately we should be fine without dodgy coping mechanisms or psych support, but that's why we're asking for help!! All the "help" for BPD seems to involve basically telling the person to "just be fine"and punishing them if they're not.

Hi have been following thread with interest. Sat here at the moment crying because everything rings so true. I need help but because of 'emotionally unstable disorder/bpd' I am seen as being impulsive. I am scared to ring CMHT because I know very little will be done. I am thinking about 'actions' to take because I am so fed up with the way my life is going.

I have a bipolar diagnosis rather than BPD, but MH's interpretation of 'impulsive' is bizarre. I've had a detailed and planned suicide plan that involved a lot of research and preparatory action. When I acted upon it, it was deceived as impulsive. I'd previously explained that I was identifying a time because I was waiting for the 'best chance'. WTF? It seems that unless you have it written in your diary weeks in advance, anything else is impulsive.

BTW, I was given a co-morbid diagnosis of BPD when the pdoc told me I was his 'project' to get better. When I didn't, he added the BPD diagnosis without telling me. I found out when I got a copy of my notes. He was shocked I challenged him on it. I told him I was most upset that he did this behind my back and I couldn't trust him to involve me in my care. He said he was 'hurt' by that comment. He mentioned my 'traumatic' childhood--I told him I'd not had any trauma at all. His response was 'well we will talk about that.' The guy had an over inflated ego that was hurt when he couldn't 'make' me better, hence I was made to feel it was my fault. An absolute tit. I complained and asked to be transferred to the consultant, which happened. He said he'd take a bit to review the diagnosis and later said that there was no evidence of BPD. He wrote a strongly worded letter to my GP that this it was incorrect and should be removed from my records. (Made me wonder if it was flagged somewhere.) The one thing that Dr Messiah did was start me on a new type of AD, which proved to be the 'magic bullet' & turned everything around. The only reason I got that is because he didn't know that it was a med that NHS Scotland refused to fund. The consultant was able to get special funding becaus, by he time the mistake was realised, I was back to 'me'.

Anyway, I feel for anyone under the yoke of a BPD diagnosis. I completely dosagree why the idea of a PD at all.

Jeez, sorry for all the typos. I'm on my phone. It should have said I 'hadn't' identified a time.

This may bore people, but in the nature of PD's. I'm researching African American prisoners during the 1960s and their membership of the Nation of Islam. I read the prison psychiatrist's report of one prisoner who became a famous activist later. Whilst he was attending classes, going to therapy, following racial segregation, he was viewed as a model prisoner. Then he joined the Nation of Islam, became a devoted follower of Malolcm X, and challenged segregation. In the very next report, he was diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder and schizophrenia. It was advised he shouldn't be released whilst he was a 'danger' to society. I think the whole concept of PD's are predicated upon following social conventions (hence the gendered aspect of BPD). Pdocs will claim this is no longer the case, but the whole point of it is that such discrimination is hidden. The pdocs in the 1960s thought they were being scientific/detached, too. They weren't.

Sorry to digress a bit, but psychiatry's treatment of 'troublesome' black prisoners during the 1960s is horrific and largely unknown. Almost every single prisoner where I've had access to their psychiatric records were diagnosed with a personality disorder (& often schizophrenia).

Yes, these are thoughts that I have myself dontrunwithscissors. The account of African American prisoners is, I feel on a gut level, on exactly the right track. I have often wondered ... what if I just ditch this diagnosis, refuse to accept it - because once we accept it, it really is accepting their definition of us as fundamentally flawed isn't it. And I'm not sure I fancy handing over that responsibility to anyone else, especially not some social construct that is really about what?? Conform or there's something inherently 'wrong' with you? I read a very interesting account of how shamanic cultures deal with what in the west we call 'mental illness'. It's here: thespiritscience.net/2014/06/16/what-a-shaman-sees-in-a-mental-hospital/ and whilst I appreciate that some aspects may be a bridge too far for some to entertain, I think the most interesting aspect of this is about how living in community can heal. Not drugs, not hospitals, but living in community.It strikes me that the one thing that many of us didn't have growing up was that kind of support. The medical system cannot provide that either - it can only offer people paid to pretend to care, who will dish out pills, and if you're lucky, listen to you in exchange for a salary. That's the reality of it. There's no real caring as such, from what I can see. And it strikes me that that is what is needed here. I watched this too the other day - also very interesting: www.thesacredscience.com/screening_watchnow/ - I wondered how this might work with people with 'mental health' issues?

It also seems to me that perhaps how so many of us feel is simply just a normal reaction to what we have had to deal with, or with a society that quite frankly is high pressured and more than just a bit sick. Slapping a label on those who aren't 'lowest common denominator' is one way of social control isn't it? And diverting attention away from how effed up society is? Just thoughts.

Seems to me that the system (and diagnosis) actually disempowers us, not the other way around. I was certainly a lot more 'me' before diagnosis. I wish in a way I'd never asked for it, and had just carried on doing things my way, because that's what I've had to end up doing anyway, as there's a 22 month waiting list for CBT where I live, and DBT isn't even on offer, not in any shape or form. DIY as usual then.

Wonder what would happen if instead of us all feeling judged/made to feel crap about ourselves we all said no actually the way YOU lot treat us is the problem, the system is fucked.

But of course if we said that they'd say 'ah there you go again, you bpd-ers' ....

I rest my case.

Ah, here's longer blog post: www.jaysongaddis.com/2010/11/the-shamanic-view-of-mental-illness/

Not saying I agree with this ad verbatim, but some interesting ideas here, and food for thought. Because the Western system of diagnosis and dosing up isn't exactly a rip-roaring success ...

This:
'' Alex was an 18-year-old American who had suffered a psychotic break when he was 14. He had hallucinations, was suicidal, and went through cycles of dangerously severe depression. He was in a mental hospital and had been given a lot of drugs, but nothing was helping. “The parents had done everything–unsuccessfully,” says Dr. Somé. “They didn’t know what else to do.” With their permission, Dr. Somé took their son to Africa. “After eight months there, Alex had become quite normal, Dr. Somé reports. He was even able to participate with healers in the business of healing; sitting with them all day long and helping them, assisting them in what they were doing with their clients . . . . He spent about four years in my village.” Alex stayed by choice, not because he needed more healing. He felt, “much safer in the village than in America.”

A few years back, I spent some time living fairly communally. I was living on savings and spending time on creative pursuits.

I was also writing bits and bobs about my experiences and how services had made it so much worse - this writing wasn't intentional, it just happened.

After four or five months I had a very emotional couple of days, I hit the lowest point. Then I experiened a spontanous remission of all symptoms. It was amazing. The pain finally left, the heaviness I carry was gone. I've never felt anything like it - I still had normal up-and-down human emotions but... the terror had been removed.

Gradually it came back after my return to the real world.

ps. the writing I did... I want to write a (fictional) book based on my experiences, but want it to have a happy ending and don't know how... :(

Caravanstar79 - Wonder what would happen if instead of us all feeling judged/made to feel crap about ourselves we all said no actually the way YOU lot treat us is the problem, the system is fucked.

I think it is the unconscious knowledge of this truth is what makes them treat us so badly in the first place. We show them up. We feel, collectively and communally we'd be society's conscience, if they listened.