just can't get hang of cbt.

[blackcaboutsidecafe]

I feel so stupid. Have severe anxiety and am having group CBT therapy om NHS, but it's just not working for me.

Previously saw a counsellor when was like this. We tried some cbt but I couldn't get the hang of it as I never know when my thoughts are rational or not, and can't distinguish between fact and feeling on my own. It just stressed me out more.

Instead we did a lot of other talking counselling. Helping me to make sense of some serious traumas in past and terribly adverse situations in the present.

I can no longer see her (moved away) and have no money to.pay for private counselling, but my anxiety is awful again. Pills don't touch it. Have bought a couple of cbt books and relooked at ones she tried with me, but I just can't do it. Much of my anxiety is due to way life currently is - things that can't be changed such as serious illness / life circumstances.

I understand the principle that if you change how you respond to things you feel better, but is that really possible? I can't make my relative well. His prognosis is as it is - nothing Dr's can do. How do you reframe that? Nothing can make me feel more positive about being badly beaten as a child. There is no reframing that works to make that better. To deny it happened or pretend it doesn't matter is such a lie. Some things just can't be rethought and the past can't help but influence the present .

Even for little things - I can't make it work in practice.

E.g. Kids playing loud rock music - my anxiety is off the scale.

I hate rock music and I hate loud noise.

The noise is driving me insane and am feeling so anxious as don't want to spoil their fun, but it is impacting on me.

I accept it is a teenage thing to play music, but what thoughts can I replace it with?

I can't say to myself "I like this music. This music is not too loud, it is not affecting me... " because that is not true. I do hate it and it is too loud. Nothing can reframe that as to me this is a fact. I accept that others may think differently; I accept we all have different likes and dislikes, but this is how I think.

To me it seems that CBT is about telling yourself things that you really don't believe are true, in the hope that you will become convinced.

It feels that CBT is : if you tell yourself enough times "the grass is red" despite not believing it and the evidence to the contrary being I know it is green that you will eventually change your thoughts to this new idea.

It feels like really warped brain washing.

Is it just me being stupid or resistant to treatment?

I really would like to sort out my anxiety as it does impact my life but I really can't get on top of understanding this.

Would really love to hear from someone who has had CBT work for them.

Is it possible that it just doesn't work for certain people? Am I just too rigid in my thinking to get this to work for me?

My dd had CBT and it worked for her. It only worked because all her fears and thoughts were/are irrational. she had health anxiety and it was ruining her life.

It did feel like brainwashing. Lots of repetitive speech, almost mantras.

I agree with you, I cannot see how it would work for the examples you have mentioned.

I think you are sort of getting the wrong end of the stick with CBT.

So in your example where you hate loud music. A CBT response would be 'I hate loud music. It is absolutely fine for me to have this response. If my friend invites me to something with loud music I am entitled to say no thank-you, I don't like it.I don't need to make myself like it or feel I have let down my friend in any way'

A good CBT therapist would work with you on coping with music that is too loud for you to find your own solution - I can't tell you what that would be but I definitely wouldn't be trying to brainwash yourself into thinking you didn't mind it.

CBT isn't about reframing horrible events in the past so they don't matter, it's more about how you can manage in the here and now, while acknowledging some terrible things have happened to you.

It may be that the group doesn't work for you, or it isn't being facilitated v well.

I had CBT. Found it didn't help much. Rather than CBT can I suggest this website my counsellor gave me. There are lots of solutions for different problems on their.

Www.getselfhelp.co.uk

As for loud noise: earphones or explain that today it's too much for it to be really loud and could they turn it down a bit. You aren't spoiling their fun. My two DS (11&6) know that loud bangs are dreadful for me and so they don't jump off the stairs/bang doors.

I think you maybe didn't have a therapist who explained it properly.

It isn't about brainwashing at all, it's about trying to find a way of coping with your own responses to things.

So to take your example of the loud music increasing your anxiety. You have to bypass the music thing, that's not relevant - of course you hate it. most of us would

It's about why it makes you feel anxious, and how you approach that. So for example, are you afraid that you won't be able to get away from it, are you reminded of being hit round the head because of the sound it makes, are you worried you'll have a confrontation with them, etc etc.

If you can figure out why it makes you anxious, then you can deal with that, eg. fear of the confrontation - that can be managed by thinking of ways to talk to them that doesn't aggravate things. Fear of not being able to get away - figuring out a way in which you could, actually, escape from it if you wanted to.

Then you move on to managing the anxiety, partly by reassuring yourself that you have power to do something, and it may not lead to the anticipated result, whatever that is - ie your greatest fear - that's where the worksheets come in, where you write down what you could do and what would be the likely result, sort of thing.

Managing the anxiety in itself is the final step and it involves various steps such as not 'examining' the feelings, trying to distract yourself, telling yourself it is caused by adrenalin (which is is) and realising that if you actually stop thinking about the anxious feelings, they gradually disappear, and will reappear if you begin to 'check' if they are still there.

Knowing it works and they will go away, is a really important part of it, and once you have grasped that you will be better able to control the reactions you have.

Does that explain it a bit better? I was lucky enough to have a really good therapist, one to one, as I couldn't deal with a group, and I came out of it much better in fact - still have anxiety, but I am not living in terror of panic attacks any more.

I was sceptical initially but it really did work. I also had a lot of psychotherapy prior to that which didn't feel like it was helping but probably did - I think that's better for dealing with stuff you can't change, like past abuse, childhood stuff etc.

CBT is about managing pragmatically day to day with feelings you have which might stop you doing stuff you'd like to.

took me so long to write that that I crossed posts with other people - but I think we largely agree!

Psipsina explains it much better.

We both hate loud music but I get irritated and you get anxious.

The aim of CBT shouldn't be to make you like loud music but to look at the anxiety, what your fears are, are they real fears or just the anxiety talking.

The outcome you are looking for is still hating loud music but without the anxiety.