Polite request from MNHQ

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello all

We've started this thread in Site Stuff about how we should deal with posts by posters who are feeling suicidal, and we'd be really grateful if we could have your input on there (or on here if you'd rather).

[EXTRA BIT ADDED BY MNHQ:] if you don't want to read the mahoosive Site Stuff thread or are feeling a bit vulnerable, the basic question is: how should MNHQ handle posts or threads by posters who are expressing suicidal thoughts - whether that be 'I feel so low, please talk to me', or posts that actually clearly express an intent to commit suicide. Should we leave them run and allow MNers to offer each other support, even in extremis? Or should we close them and DM the poster to direct them towards external sources of help such as the Samaritans?

Thanks
MNHQ

It's possible to be affected by MH and the other distressing topics discussed on here, and I'd imagine they can go hand in hand half the time. So it does just feel like any action/censorship further than locking live suicide threads would just be discriminatory etc. Just how it feels. I know it's tricky for MNHQ and they've had a lot of crap flung at them this week.

I did find the thread on 'site stuff' a bit brutal - mental health / suicidal feelings seem to be the taboo topic on this forum. The repeated suggestion of 'lock the thread and give the Samaritans number' seems to 'pick' on MH. You could say the same about a rape thread - close the thread and give Rape Crisis number or go to policy / hospital.

I agree with what Snowy and everyone else said. I did see the other thread but didn't really want to post on it.
I don't think you can lock the threads on suicide on the basis that they are triggering without looking like you are singling out MH. Even if that wasn't your intention. Lots of stuff posted here is triggering for people and those threads stay.

I agree with no to methods but most other stuff is OK.

Ok so i risk getting banned here but having become so upset by the other threads i de- registered. I found that couldn't cope without this lifeline and my anxiety rocketed. I have emailed mnhq srveral times but for some reason they have not come back tome. I NEED this life line as mnetters have helped me so much and I didn't realise how distressed I would feel. I managed to register under a different email address.

My contribution to this thread is this - i looked on netmums but needed to know I could talk to old "friends" .while iwas there I noticed a number of online advisors that stepped into threads offering kind words and numbers and links to useful organisations.

If that is not possible could you possibly include direct links and phone numbers for samaritans , mind, etc as i have never been inclined to go searching for links at my lowest but if the information is on the page then id more likely use it.

Surely the samaritans and other mh organisations have been able to advise on this.

PLEASE don't ban me. I just said what i felt on the other thread and wonder if that was why i wasn't allowed back but at no point did i break talkguidelines. Iam being honest about using another email to register. My old name was LEMmingaround

(((Squeeze))) LEM.

(((hugs)))

Fwiw I don't think they can reregister you once you've de-regged. Or at least it's very difficult so they don't often do it. I don't think they will have banned you. They should have replid to your e-mail bit it's possible they're a bit snowed under at the moment.

I don't think they are any more triggering than other threads about sensitive topics. Sometimes when you're very depressed you CAN'T talk - to anyone, the person sitting next to you or Samaritans on the phone (especially on the phone tbh). You can type though. It's less effort somehow.

Perhaps it's worth considering having a way that people can hide threads from Active convos with certain words in the title. A filter of sorts.

I suppose I feel strongly about this as I've twice been horrendously ill while I member of Mumsnet, as well as many times without. What was written on the threads didn't make me worse. I didn't at any point think that MN had a duty of care to me and I certainly didn't expect MN to fix my problems.

What it did do was give me somewhere to talk, where it knew there were people who'd listen and actually give an opinion - which Sams doesn't. I also thought I'd be believed, when the second time I was ill, I'd already been knocked back for home treatment even though they'd not assessed me. (I've since complained properly about that in RL as that was WAAAAY more damaging than anything someone posted on here, and certainly contributed to the 3 sodding months as an inpatient!)

After the hoo-haa last week, I've spotted threads from folk who hardly dare mention that they're feeling suicidal. That's such a crappy situation for people to now be in, when before this, people were able to speak more freely, which was much more helpful.

The thread I posted as Jecede wasn't my greatest moment on MN or in RL either, but it helped keep me going until I got proper help the next day. Closing it down and pointing me to services I already know about would have made me feel horrible.

You have no idea what the MH professionals when I was an inpatient thought about Mumsnet. They thought that Mumsnet and the people on it were bloody amazing. I was given internet access so I could still come on here, even when I was on constants as they recognised how helpful it was to me. The fact that random people gave a shit about some nutter in a psychiatric unit, when MH still carries as stigma and misunderstanding (as demonstrated by some on the other thread) meant a lot and still does. (Actually getting a bit teary now).

That's why when folk with no experience or understanding of mental health - although a mate of theirs or a friend of a friend or second cousin once removed once had a funny turn, therefore making them an expert - start wittering on about what's best for people who live with it all the time, it really gets on my tits.

The discussion about troll hunting and the discussion about mentions of suicide should never have been put together on a thread IMO. I'm also a bit disappointed that it was reopened before a decision was made as the same blah blah blah is going on, but not adding anything.

HQ, you and your site are just grand. Sorry for wittering on.

The mumsnet mh threads have been a life saver for me over recent years. As others have said there are very few "places" where you can be open about the hell of mental illness and others who have been in a very similar boat to you can empathise and understand. I agree about removing posts where suicidal methods are mentioned/discussed, but please don't remove the others.

And what screamer said.

I think there's an opportunity here for Mumsnet to team up with a mental health charity or authority and come up with a groundbreaking policy about how suicidal ideation is handled on internet forums. Leaving the trolling issue aside for a moment, I'd love to see Mumsnet advocating and campaigning for parity of esteem for mental healthcare. Yes as if you haven't got enough to do :)

No I idea what threads have caused MN to post this.
I do think MN can offer support in a way other places do not. There are other people who have been there and taken that anti depressant! That helped me.

Just to repeat something I said on the other threads.
I was really disappointed in some of the comments from other mumsnetters (not MNHQ.)
A few posts said 'this is a parenting site not a mental health one' whereas no-one would dream of saying 'this is a parenting site not a cancer/abuse/domestic violence/relationships' site.
I was genuinely shocked that some people still have the view that mental health issues exist in a separate little 'mad' box away from everything else.
Might as well have a big Red Cross on the from page of the website saying 'not wanted here' :-(
Anyway I'll stop now rather than just repeating everything I've already said :-)

What blossomy said, its not so much MNHQ but other mumsnetters.

A really good quote from TIME TO CHANGE (an orgnaisation that campaigns against MH discrimination) is We ALL have mental health

Saying "this is a parenting site not a mental health one" has to be the single most ridiculous quote i have ever read. Do new mums not get PND then? or are we only allowed to post for support if our children are small? My PND wasn't diagnosed until DD was two, oh and it was MNET that gave me the support and push i needed to go to my doctor. I needed help, but i couldn't see that, mnetters helped me realise that it was ok to ask for help.

Don't sweep mental health under the carpet - after all, we all have it!

Saying this is a parenting site not a mental health one has to be the single most ridiculous quote I've ever read.

I totally agree LEM. One in 4 people will have a problem with their mental health. That's a quarter of the site not able to ask about something that directly affects them or someone they live with or care for.

Is this a parenting site, not a relationships site, or a feminism site or a rape site or a health site or a bereavement site or an any other topic that doesn't directly involve the bringing up of children site?

No. It's a site by parents for parents and parents have more to talk about than parenting and parents can have poor mental health.

That line stuck out for me as well. Along with one about threads about mental health being moved to the mental health section. Although I'm not sure that's what that poster meant to say. She might have been referring to suicide rather than mental health in general.

If this is only a parenting site for parents then I'm going to have to leave. And I'd rather not because I do quite like it here.

Evening all,

So we've spoken to Mind and the Samaritans about this and they both suggest that we continue to allow threads in which users talk about feeling very low and having suicidal thoughts but remove threads that are clear statements of intent ('I am going to kill myself'), suicide notes, 'live' suicide threads. ('I have taken an overdose and am waiting for it to take effect'), or anything that involves a description of methods.

Looking at the this thread, this chimes with what the majority of Mumsnetters want us to do also, so henceforth that's what we'll do.

In cases in which we remove threads, we will post to explain to the OP that we are going to delete it, and signpost the Samaritans; PM the OP (supportively, obviously) to signpost the Samaritans; and explain our actions in the deletion message.

In cases where we leave the thread up (the feeling low threads) we will post links to our mental health webguide and to the Samaritans' online and telephone support.

We know there are some who feel extremely strongly that threads that express suicidal intent should be allowed to stand, and we do understand your reasons, but the consensus was so strong on this one - from both MNers and from experts in the field - that it really did feel there was only one way forward.

I feel mixed now having read the posts on here. My initial feeling has been that threads which state intent/methods should be locked as seems to be the MNHQ consensus.
I came to this as both my DF and DB committed suicide and if I see a thread where a poster is suicidal, there's a, well, compulsion to post, to try and make that difference I was unable to make with my own DF & DB
Now that just feels like I'm being selfish and not permitting people who are really genuinely low, to reach out for help
There's no easy answer I suppose. I tried to convey this on the site stuff thread but there's a difference when people post about rape/Dv/miscarriage/stillbirth and its triggering, well yes of course it is, but you CANT MAKE IT NOT HAPPEN.
Suicide threads are different. They just are .

I think that is sensible and pretty much the only option.

I'm not reading ANY comments on ANY threads as I have been suicidal and fear the comments may make me feel crap and/or trigger me.

I just want to suggest that it is always worth posting a link to this page entitled Suicide: Read This First www.metanoia.org/suicide/ (on phone and not sure how to link sorry). They have SEO-d this so it comes up if people google for methods. It quite literally saved my life on one occasion.