Question about medical treatment and faith issues

[Becca19962014]

I've no idea if this is the right place for this, I've only just found this part of MN.

I'm being asked to do a therapy by the mental health team that is in conflict with my beliefs, I won't go into what it is or exactly which community im a member of simply because it will out me to people in RL but I am an Anglican who is a member of a religious community living apart from the community sharing the same lifestyle, philosophy and teaching my sisters there do.

I've been told to abandon my community and church and do this therapy (it is very long term so it isn't a case of just a few weeks). I've learnt through my sisters (as in those in the community) that if I was a catholic (others who are members are Catholics which is how they know) i would not have to do this, there is a massive conflict. I know people of other faiths in my local community who have not been made to make this choice.

Those not made to make the choice have been allowed other options for treatment/support.

I don't understand why it's okay for them to ask me to abandon my community when they don't ask the same of others. For me this is a massive thing to do, removing structure and valuable source of support. I wanted this for most of my life and spent many years studying to become a member of this community. I do not view it as being detrimental to my wellbeing. Their argument is other Christians do it so I should to, though I'm a bit confused about Catholics, aren't they Christians too?!

I struggle a lot with the mental health team and am terrified of them, I'd appreciate if anyone here could offer me some advice on this issue. This issue comes up frequently and I'd appreciate some other opinions if possible.

I need to get some sleep now, but I will come back to this thread when I can. Thank you for any advice you may be able to give and apologies if this is in the wrong place.

I really cannot offer any advice but did not want to read and run.

Is there anyone else you can talk to about this, such as your local GP or leading members of your community.

I am really sorry I cannot advise you on medical issues but I hope you find someone to talk to who can help you through this.

I don't understand what you are talking about but I thought one of the main tenets of mental health was respecting the patients' point of view and empowering patients to live as they want to (as long as not endangering anybody)

Is there someone in your community who can support you with them?

If you know that there are alternatives just tell them that you are not happy to do the therapy suggested and want to try the alternative instead . Unless you are sectioned nobody can force you to do anything .

Sorry for causing confusion. They won't let me do the alternatives, I asked. My gp supported me and explained but they told her I had no choice. They refuse to speak to my religious community because of 'confidentiality'.

I didn't really expect anyone to know I was just wondering really. I don't understand why one religion is recognised and others are dismissed. I do the therapy or I am removed from all services, which means no home and no benefits.

Thank you for responding and again apologies for causing confusion it wasn't my intention.

Well, you do have a choice- you can't be forced to undertake any therapy unless you are sectioned.

Is it possible there has been some sort of misunderstanding? Could you talk to your key worker, perhaps with a member of your community with you? If the therapy might rally benefit you, could you talk it over with somebody senior in your community and see whether it can be reconciled with your beliefs?

Becca surely this is religious discrimination if other religions or denominations are allowed choices and you are not. Would you feel able to talk to you local MP about religious discrimination if others can access services but you cannot?

presumably they mean that they cannot talk about your confidential issues with another party on the phone. Can you ask to schedule a meeting and bring one of the leaders of your community with you to hear the situation for you and assist you.

If they are 'threatening' to stop services because of something you will not do which you consider unreasonable then this is a very big issue and your GP and community leader should be involved to be fighting on your behalf.

I had an advocate with me for the last appointment and she was so shocked at how I was treated and what was said, about this and other things, that we left and she immediately began helping me make a formal complaint. That has turned very nasty.

I don't have a key worker anymore that was taken away. With regard to the therapy I and my gp were told they get extra money for each person who does it, it's very expensive for the patient due to high attendence at hospital being necessary and as long as patient really believes it will work and totally adopts all of it every day it's 100% guaranteed . The parts that were not in conflict were done via private therapy many years ago and made things worse. The private therapist has since died and their practice dissolved so they cannot be contacted, unfortunately.

The community is an enclosed order, with people living in the community, it's a bit hard to explain (Im independent in the community to a certain extent but live my life as if I am enclosed, I'm not enclosed due to my disabilities (physical disabilities)) so they cannot attend a meeting with the mental health team.

My gp is trying to help stop services etc being taken away but the problem is she is being dismissed she is very angry about it. Discharge will have a very serious impact on me, that's why I feel there is no choice. I've been fighting this a very very long time.

I will try my MP and AM as well, thanks for all your suggestions!

I have no contact with others who live in the community, though that is possible, people are spread throughout the world. I know there is no one near me who is a member of my community otherwise I would ask them to help.

That should read live 'outside the enclosed community'. Sorry I meant to hit preview and hit post instead.

I am a Christian too and there are certain therapies that I wouldn't be happy to undertake, although that possibly has more to do with being a bit cynical about alternative medicine.

I assume you don't wish to share which therapy it is on here? It would help to know what sort of community and what sort of therapy, although I appreciate that you may not wish to share this on an open forum.

Is it because the mental health team believe that the community in which you live somehow contributes to your problems? Do they consider it like a cult?

Apologies if I'm way off the mark, but your story is so vague it's hard to get a true sense of your situation.

I have to agree with diving. The Christian community could be anything from a conservative mainstream set up to an out there cult. The therapy could also be anything and may be helpful or may not. Without knowing more I don't think that you will get much constructive advice.

"With regard to the therapy I and my gp were told they get extra money for each person who does it, it's very expensive for the patient due to high attendence at hospital being necessary and as long as patient really believes it will work and totally adopts all of it every day it's 100% guaranteed"

It sounds like you are being railroaded into a treatment you don't want simply so they can get this extra money. If I were you I would get this thread moved to the Mental Health section as there are likely to be more people who have relevant experience of how to deal with a situation like this.

Is it something like Franciscan order? If you are an Anglican can you appeal to your diocese for support. Even if they are not a member of your specific community they should know the details of you community and be able to support you.

Sorry for being so vague. It is a conservative mainstream well known, enclosed contemplative Christian order, usually people who are members are Catholics. I've not given more information as I'm terrified of people working out who I am.

I will try and get the thread moved to mental health, once I work out how! (I wasn't aware there was one, I'm fairly new to MN, you are quite right I should have placed this there).

I've emailed my MP and AM and I've also contacted the diocese as well. Thankyou all so much for your help and advice, I really appreciate it. Please accept apologies for being vague!

We're just going to move this to our Mental Health topic at the request of the OP.

Hi, if you have been offered long term and hospital based mental health treatment then that is usually hard to get, has long waiting lists and only given to people MH teams thinks would need and benefit from it. No matter what the treatment is.

Do you want the MH long term treatment? I was offered some mindfulness a few years ago, as part of a package of treatment. After 5 group sessions I really struggled with it, it did not sit well with my beliefs and my research and talks with medical staff showed it was unlikely to work for me. I was very critical of how it was organised ( leader reading from a text book), to say the least. For me the aspects and homework tasks set were so far from my core beliefs it was not going to work, as I had told the medical staff who had to agree. I also was told it was. New treatment for my area and they needed numbers to fill it! Not a positive for me!!

If you want the MH treatment then it is your right to that treatment. If you want different treatment can you ask for it? Would your community find treatment they approved of if NHS cannot provide it?

Is it the MH team who are asking you to abandon your way of life? Or your own order?

Is it because MH services see your way of life as part of the problem and want you to stop it? Which surely must be illegal. Or is it because you need to do group therapy activities or be in patient for treatment and therefore need to do what the inpatient team dictates? Of it is inpatient treatment then I imagine you will have to do all group sessions, attend individual sessions when asked to and do your share of any tasks in the place. Apart from that what you do in your own time is up to you - ie live your life according to your order.

Inpatient care is very different. If that is the case it is often for 6monthw. But they cannot stop people from praying, reading holy books etc.

Oh you say if you refuse the therapy you lose your home and benefits.

I think this is a key thing to challenge. Patients have a right to accept or refuse treatment unless they are under a mental health section for treatment. As with physical health treatments consenting adults have a right to refuse treatment. People do not lose their benefits if they refuse for eg cancer treatment that may or may not work. Benefits are not linked to medical treatment.

Mental health treatment is not guaranteed to work.

You say you have physical disabilities ( which is why not live in an enclosed community). Therefore you should get benefits and housing support due to physical benefits alone.

Taking an advocate along to record these threats is useful. Make sure this threat is recorded by an advocate and then you can get the advocate to help you make an official complaint. They know how to. However many MH teams do not take kindly to such criticisms.

The MH team probably can refuse to offer you other treatments - at least until official complaints ( which can take many months!!) have followed.

Would you be happy to lose support of the MH team?

Damn. Wrote a reply but just lost it. I'll have to come back later as I have an appointment at 11. Sorry.

It isn't for inpatient treatment. My landlord will kick me out if I am not being seen by mh team anymore and I don't have anywhere safe to go. I have no way of applying for benefits without mh team either as there is no CAB or other charities that can help me apply where I live.

Becca- I think you must somehow find real life help- or trust people on here with more information (I can see why that woud be hard). But your situation sounds very difficult and complex- and I honestly don't think you'll get any helpful advice based on what you've said so far. Is there anyone in real life who can help you? The leader of the community, perhaps? Your GP?

Hi, if you live in the UK and are claiming benefits how can they be stopped? You can apply for all benefits by yourself, you do not need a MH team to claim.

I have never heard of a landlord saying they will throw someone out if they do not do xyz. They can terminate rent at any time according to their contract, but no rental contract is based on someone doing what a landlord says.

If you rent there will be other places to rent. May be worth asking around.

As the treatment is not inpatient and is hospital based then you must not be too isolated so therefore there will be other accommodation and centres to advise you.

May be worth posting on relevant bits of MN board - re benefit claims and landlord. Am sure some good legal advice and people able to share experiences to help you. Could you start a separate thread in right area ( sorry not sure whether money matters or somewhere else more relevant?!)

Many people apply for benefits themselves. Your physical health issues will be documented with gp and any other medical professionals overseeing that. You can use all MH letters for claims even if not seeing you. Insist on them writing to you to explain why they withdrawing services.

You have got yourself an advocate - so why not use them to make claims for benefits when yours run out? In the UK they tend to interview people for benefits like PIP which will be good for you as you can prove yourself your illness and tell your story of MH team. For benefits like JSA, Housing Benefit they are linked to income and situation which will not change.

This all sounds very complicated and I doubt you're giving the full story here.

From what you describe it sounds like you're going to be something like DBT or more intensive PD therapy. You wouldn't be offered such therapy unless you were in need of it. Places are limited and reserved for the most in need.

The rules of an enclosed order may make this kind of therapy valueless if you wouldn't be able to commit 100% to the programme due to the rules of the community.

Are you in some kind of sheltered housing that requires you to work with the MH teams to qualify? I can't think of another reason why they'd evict you if you didn't comply.

If you don't want to do the therapy as the rules if your community mean more to you, then that's the route you have to take, warts and all.

Thanks for the replies. I've not given the whole story and can't (legal reasons).

Just to clarify, I'm physically unable to do my own forms that was why I had a social worker (I don't anymore), I live over an hour away from a hospital, or any kind of advice (it's in a different county to me). For me that is isolated.

Regarding the landlord the mental health team contact is mentioned in my contract.

There is no waiting list at all for the therapy, they are trying to get enough people to get funding. I was advised by a private therapist not to do it, they also challenged my diagnosis, but the psychiatrist said they were private so their opinion doesn't count.

I'm sorry if I have confused anyone it wasn't my intention but I can't give out more information.