DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

[Sapphire18]

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

Is he looking for/getting help on managing/eliminating this behaviour?

You can't do it for him.

You wrote It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating

Just read it through again. Pretend I wrote it.

You can't manage his behaviour.

Only he can manage his behaviour.

You can either decide that you are happy living like this or you can leave.

It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating.

Just imagine if your sister or your best friend or your daughter said this to you. What advice would you give them?

X-post - and it's not a coincidence.

You cannot manage his behaviour only he can.

Getting that angry and violently abusive is NOTHING to do with a panic attack.

Maybe he does indeed get panic attacks later - part of the classic 'I'm sorry I'll never do it again' bit of the cycle.

But you cannot accept this as an explanation.

However, we cannot diagnose someone who evidently does have some complex psychological issues on here, whether they are the cause of his abusive behaviour or not.

He needs medical help asap, and you need to be away from him while he gets it as he sounds extremely dangerous. I'm afraid I think the bottom line is that he is a controlling bully who looks likely to become violent with you. The self-flagellation is just another way of trying to control you imo.

Please think long and hard whether your OH is likely to change and whether you want to remain in an abusive relationship. (I would definitely consider it abusive, regardless of what he pins the blame on.) Do you plan to have children? Can you be sure that he would not treat your DC's in this way?

Thank you everyone, I am still really shaken and teary. We're due to talk tonight. He's texted me saying he's looked up Relate counselling and thinks we should go. I hope it is a chance to sort this, and the fact he's wanting help is a good sign. I am considering printing this thread to show him what others make of this behaviour, do you think that would be a good idea?

OP, I don't think Relate would be a good idea. Your partner is either extremely manipulative and abusive, or seriously mentally ill. Relate can not help in either circumstance.

And fwiw, I've suffered from panic attacks in the past, and do not recognise this behaviour. I can only speak for myself, but in the grip of an attack I was in so much panic I could barely move, and certainly could not have confronted someone or writhed around on the floor. I gather that is pretty typical.

That's not a panic attack, that's being an utter bastard, who you should leave. He sounds abusive and relate will not help that. You are frightened of him and that's not right at all whether he is ill or not.

Oh and you cannot manage his behaviour. If you accept this from him (because it will not change) then you will find yourself years down the line either beaten black and blue (cos it will happen) extremely unhappy and with someone who excuses his violence/manipulative behaviour as "panic attacks"
So it's up to you really.

You know your OH best, but from what you've said, I wonder whether showing him this thread would provoke more rage in him--the fact you're discussing him? That in itself would be enough for me to walk away.

This is your decision and your relationship, of course, but looking from the outside in, you appear to be in denial of how extreme and abusive his behaviour is.

Get out of this now.

The mere fact that things are getting physical between means you are in an abusive relationship.

What's going to happen if you get married and have children? How will he behave while your holding the baby and being aggressive.

What if he hurts the baby then starts throwing himself on the floor.

He is either a manipulating arsehole or needs to see a MH team. I would go for asshole.

Sounds bloody dangerous.

You do not need relate or relationship guidance . This is his own private issue.

When will he grow out of these tantrums? When he is 70?! How strange will that look? Do he behave like this in public ? If not, then he is perfectly capable of controlling himself.

please please please read what you have written "having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour"

and then stop.....

aggressive behaviour is aggressive behaviour.... it is nothing to do with panic.

he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it.

I have been in an abusive relationship where this kind of thing was done. It's not a panic response: it's learned behaviour and entitlement (whether through narcissistic urges or a disfunctional past).
He is acting like a spoilt brat, but he is a grown man.
The crux is: does he realise this? If not, he needs to seek help himself.
If so, he is being manipulatively abusive.

BTW I have panic attacks and anxiety myself (including angry ones) - no way does this resemble one. You don't have the faculties to be that manipulating.

DON'T go to relate with him. It is not recommended for abusive arseholes relationships.

I bet he is desperate for an audience to convince that you are the problem and he is the poor helpless victim.

My sister went through something similar. They went to relate and found it really helpful as it helped them to understand why. They are trained counsellors and it does sound like he has mental health issues which they should be able to help with. Hope that helps.

I rang a domestic violence helpline earlier which was v useful. My friends picking me up in a minute. I texted him to explain im just getting some space. He was really shocked, panicky, scared I think. Taking all my strength not to feel sorry for him. I'm scared the conversation will be ten times harder tomorrow.

Well done for taking that step. It will let you have some space.

Thank you everyone for your messages. He was extremely shocked and panicked when I told him on the phone I was going to my friend's overnight. I spent the whole night wondering if I should go back, trying not to feel sorry for him etc. I am dreading the conversation tonight as I feel I've made a huge statement by going away.

I was thinking of writing out my experience of the situation on Sunday night (like the explanation I started this thread with). I was also thinking of giving him the following 4 points I need him to commit to. I am dreading doing this, I think he's going to hit the roof. What do you think?:

1.Accept that your behaviour towards me on Sunday night was abusive.

Physical abuse does not have to involve hitting. By holding onto my legs and preventing me from leaving the room you were being abusive. When you ignored my repeated requests to let me go, I resorted to pinching you and hitting you to try to escape. The domestic violence helpline I spoke to has told me this is ‘reasonable force’ and the law would find your actions to be abusive and mine to be in self defence.

If you feel that your behaviour was acceptable, ask yourself this; if a Police Officer had been in my place, with you physically restraining them and preventing them from leaving the room, would there have been any repercussions for your actions; would they have been considered unacceptable and have had a consequence?

What would you think of the situation if it were one of your sisters with their boyfriend, would you think he was treating her fairly?

2.Accept responsibility for your actions - don’t blame it on a panic attack

As an adult you have control over your actions and can choose not to behave in an abusive way - such as restraining me, preventing me from leaving the room, throwing yourself around the room, writhing on the floor, ripping your clothes off in anger, banging your head on the floor, screaming at me etc.

You may be feeling out of control and panicked when you behave like this, however your actions are not a panic attack and it is unacceptable to blame it on this; your behaviour is your choice. The following are panic attack symptoms and do not include any abusive / aggressive behaviour towards others:
•a sensation that your heart is beating irregularly (palpitations)
•sweating
•trembling
•hot flushes
•chills
•shortness of breath
•a choking sensation
•chest pain
•nausea
•dizziness
•feeling faint
•numbness, or pins and needles
•dry mouth
•a need to go to the toilet
•ringing in your ears
•a feeling of dread, or a fear of dying
•a churning stomach
•a tingling sensation in fingers
•shivering
•shaking

3.Promise you will never again be physically abusive

You held my legs so I couldn’t move, pinned me down on the bed, and trapped me in the room against my will. You continued this despite the fact that I:

•Made my frequent attempts to escape from you
•Made repeated requests for you to let go of me
•Told you that you were hurting my knee
•Told you that you were scaring me

I was not doing anything wrong. I was trying to calmly end a conversation and get ready for bed.

You have told me that such behaviour cannot be prevented, it just happens. You also made an analogy between my bike accident and the behaviour – saying these things sometimes just happen; there’s nothing you can do to control it. It is not acceptable to have a relationship based on the assumption that abuse is unpreventable and could happen. The fact you have said this is extremely concerning to me and I am going to be frank: I will not marry someone who cannot guarantee they will never be abusive or violent towards me.

This is not just about the physical actions: when you have behaved like this previously we agreed that you would not show any ‘menacing behaviour’ (your description of it) towards me. I need you to keep that promise.

4.Go to the GP and get professional help for the anger and abusive behaviour you have displayed towards me.

Relate is for couples to have counselling about problems they share in their relationship, i.e. situations where they both need to modify their behaviour. The problem here is caused solely by you. Even if you would rather I didn’t leave the room, the way you behave or respond to the situation is your responsibility, and what you did was not at all acceptable.

I sincerely think you need to go to the GP and get some help with this. I need a guarantee from you that you are going to address this problem, not just say sorry and you’ll try not to let it happen again. I need to know you are taking active steps to make a change. I know it is not a quick fix or an instant solution, but knowing that you understand this needs to change, and that you are getting help to work on it will help me to feel I can safely stay in our relationship.

Are you confident of how he will react? Personally I would only consent to meet and do this in a place with other people there where you can leave quickly - the worst he will do then is guilt trip you (because it's not panic). Or take a neutral adult with you, with their phone ready to call for help should it be needed.

I would not go back into the house until after any assessments and treatment are underway. He will 'read' you living with him as evidence it's OK really...

I'm with squizita that carrying on as if it's everything OK while waiting for him to take action will hardly be a push to act. If you want to give him another go, I (personally) would state you will not return until he has acted on these points. I think he needs to prove he's willing to change. (Howeveragain personallyI would not give him another chance, but it's incredibly easy for me to say that when I'm not involved.)

Hello Sapphire

Personally I think only number 4 in your list is important and must be discussed now. It is the route cause (and possible solution) of all of the above points you made.

He would come to his own conclusions about points 1, 2 and 3 if 4 happens.

So I narrow down the options. He must agree to and actively participate with professional help to stop his abusive personality. This is not done thro relate (none of these problems are yours or as a couple) and should be arranged off his own back - you don't need to do this for him.

The questions you have to ask yourself -

If he is able to stop behaving abusively (thereby revealing that it was a choice all along), can you actually respect him given how he has behaved towards you?

If he genuinely can't stop (this is pretty unlikely as you have not described him having these outbursts with other people) then is it something you are prepared to risk happening again - and possibly in the future involving children?

Of course, we should all help and support those people in our lives who suffer from genuine mental health problems but this cannot be at the expense of our own emotional and physical safety. Trust me, any ideas of it being your 'lot' in life to put up with this, or being something you were destined to help him through is romantic nonsense that has more in common with Stockholm syndrome than any actual ethical or moral position.