Mums...Please don't judge....really desperately need advice. Please!

[LP2206]

Hi there,

So I'm new to this.

I'm not a mum actually, but I figured that seeing as this site was full of women, it would be my biggest 'audience' potentially, and I really, really need some help please. I know this is long, but I'd be so grateful for any advice - I'm living alone with my Boyfriend, and have no female friends to talk to about this. I need the help of other women!! :-(

I've always suffered from depression/some anxiety, and to be honest, life hasn't been the easiest. Too much to waffle on about, but the usual, divorce, family deaths, etc.

Ok - in a nutshell, this is it. A year ago, having discovered that my new, 'perfect' boyfriend was messing around with his ex, I tried to forgive him. I fell pregnant, (we were on holiday/condom broke/morning after pill/didn't work) and I fell into a depression before I even knew I was pregnant.

And this is the crux of my issue. I've been on Trazadone (antidepressant/anxiety) for over 10 years, and not had any issues, lived a reasonable life, went through good times, bad times, and stayed pretty fine.

I suddenly felt this numbing, this awful depression, and realised I'd missed my period. Long story short, I had a termination at 7 weeks, and immediately the numb/depressed feeling lifted. I had no period for 7 weeks, then they came back, and since then, I've been going through hell.

Since October (when the periods came back) I've been suicidal throughout the month, some days I'm fine, some weeks I'm fine, then the depression washes over me, and I'm literally suicidal for a while.

What I want to know - is do you think this is hormone related?? I was having counselling and saw my Doc, who said "oh come off the Trazadone, it musn't be working, we'll put you on Sertraline".

So I came off it 2 months ago, was fine. Then the depression hit.....this month, literally the day I started my period I was suicidal again, sobbing, numb, so low I wanted to die. After about 4/5 days it subsided. Yesterday I was fine. Normal.

Please - those of you who suffer from depression - PLEASE help me, is it normal for 'clinical depression' to come and go like that??? Because I cannot get the Doctor to take me seriously at all. I've pointed out that I've been like this since after the termination, and that being on meds, and off meds, seems to make no difference.

Could this be hormonal? I'm nearly 36 year old, no children, and whilst I understand that I'm probably a bit 'generally' low - my relationship isn't great, I'm still struggling to figure out if I can stay with this guy, work is non-existant etc - I think it's no co-incidence that this extreme depression seems to wax and wane as strongly as it does - but the Dr is just not listening.

Please, don't just read and run, or judge me for the abortion. I'm hard enough on myself, but in all honesty, I couldn't have a child, I don't think I'm 'mother material', and I'd just found out he was messing around.

I would be SO, SO grateful if anyone has any similar experience, or can tell me any more about hormones, PMDD, anything like that. I went back to the Docs yesterday, and a female doctor (who was about 15!!) asked me if I've ever heard of PMT. Er....I've been having periods for over 20 years...I think I know about that!! I cannot get any straight answers. Please help ladies, I need the support of some women so desperately.

Thank you so much.

I have no idea about what is causing the link between your cycle and your depression, though my totally-non-medically-trained knee-jerk response would be not to completely discount PMT, as it can change in intensity over time, and it can be absolutely crippling for some people. But whatever the cause, good on you for trying to get to the root of it, and I'm sorry to hear you doctor isn't listening to you.

And nobody should judge you for the termination. It sounds to me from your post that you made a sensible, thoughtful assessment of what would be best both for you and for any potential future children.

When I was younger I had pmt that would cause me to feel suicidal. I would cry for days and sleep for hours and hours. There was 1 week a cycle where I would be fine the rest of the time it was awful. I had blood tests and they found I was producing too much of one hormone so went on contraceptive pill and was put on anti depressants.
You need to go back to your doctor and talk it through. It could be an imbalance from your pregnancy.

Ask your doctor if you can try a low dose pill & take it continuously for 3/4 months & see how you are. then you will know it is hormonal, & take it from there. it is safe to do this as long as you have at least two "periods" per year to clear out your womb.

No one can judge you, its good you feel you can use MN for support. however I would strongly recommend something like CBT or other counselling as anti-ds alone are often not enough.

I think the two things are interlinked and that depression makes hormonal stuff worse and vice versa. I absolutely know what you mean about doctors often not seeming to take the hormonal aspect of things seriously. I think it's worth you going back to gp and trying to get the meds right.

I have felt generally better with the mirena coil inserted but I think this is only used if you have decided you definitely don't want any more pregnancies ever. Also it makes you gain weight but I'm willing to put up with that for the relief I get from my periods. The pill makes me have a personality change (for the worse) and I could never get the doctor to acknowledge that either.

Ladies thank you, I appreciate any help/advice. All of you have helped, jimblejamble, how long did it take before the pill kicked in?

I've asked my docs for a blood test, so will see what that says.

Miss marples, I agree, I know that I need to get some talking therapy too, there's so much that's happened in the last 12 months, and I feel like cr*p most days, just muddling along and trying to cope.

I've got a really, really important opportunity/interview I'm supposed to go to in 2 weeks, and it also means flying to America. I would happily try the sertraline given to me by the docs, but I'm concerned that the side effects won't have disappeared by then, so I'm kind of stuck just hoping to god that I make it through the next 2 weeks.

Ladies, do you know/have you had experience of that feeling, that numb/depressed feeling when pregnant? I was willing to accept that hormonally I'd feel weird for a couple of months afterwards, but the termination was in August, periods came back in October last year, and it's been happening since then. I just long to be 'normal' again. Thank you guys, it's so lonely having no women to chat to! Xxx

I am utterly convinced that hormonal imbalances play a huge part in many diagnoses of depression and anxiety. Women are far, far more likely to suffer from either (or both) ... why so? Why does perimenopause and menopause see women who have never had any mental health issues in their lives suddenly on antidepressants? Hormones.

I've been through the mill with severe PND, medications, counselling, CBT, the works and my mood dips terrifyingly just before my period arrives. Progesterone only (minpill or Mirena) makes things worse so I think I have an oestrogen deficit.

I'll be having a battery of blood tests for hormone levels and thyroid shortly and will go down the artificial hormone route before I'd go on antidepressants again. Because I'm not depressed, I suffer hugely for a week every month, that's all.

I noticed a slight difference in a month of starting the pill but it took about 3 or 4 for a major difference to be noticed.
I found seeing a different doctor to my usual one helped almost like a fresh pair of eyes. If you are at a largish practise it might be worth seeing if there is a particular dr that specialises in women's health. The dr at my practise that does is amazing and if she doesn't know the answer she knows exactly where to find it.
Good luck

For the short term, can I recommend getting yourself some very high strength Evening Primrose Oil and some starflower supplements?
Both of those will help to address any hormonal issues that are happening.
Good luck.

Thank you (again!) ladies. Violator, agreed...I think it's shocking that it isn't taken more seriously.

I'm already looking at the calendar, and dreading being away, as it falls when my period is due. :-( I'm literally scared of how I feel.

Problem is though - I do think part of it is general depression, I feel a bit numb/quite low a lot, in the last 12 months I had to move, lost my job, abc my relationship is pretty....complicated.

My female GP actually rolled her eyes at me yesterday, I explained this to her, and she said 'go on the pill or antidepressants'. I enquired about blood tests, and she rolled her eyes!!

I worry that the tests won't show a deficiency though, if they're not at the right time?? Jimblejamble, did you have yours at a specific time in your cycle?

I wanted mine doing last week when I was at rock bottom, but there was no one available. They are doing them tomorrow, when I feel completely different - surely the issue/deficiency would only be picked up when I'm low, and something has changed?

I don't know. I could be clutching at straws...I just think if you have depression, would it change so much in a month??? Anyone?? Xx

The tests weren't done at a specific time. It showed at slightly low level of one hormone (can't remember which) the level was at the low end of the normal range but my doctor said it was obviously too low for me. I would really push for a different doctor if yours isn't helping

LP2206 it's shocking that the standard response is to hand a woman a prescription for antidepressants.
I'm not knocking them, they are very useful for some people. But the more I dig into this subject the more cynical I become.

Today I am feeling 100%. Life is good, I'm looking forward to the weekend and a night out.
Last week it took all of my mental strength to get out of bed and face the day, I was incredibly down, agitated and negative. Then my period started and all was good in the world - until it's due again.
I also find myself checking the calendar for 'that week', this rollercoaster is taking over my life so I'm determined to get to the bottom of it.

I was researching this today for a friend who is bipolar and some months really suffer before her period. There is a definite link between mood disorders, thyroid problems and pmt. The first thing my psychiatrist did when I started to see him was send me for a whole battery of blood tests! I am not in the UK and from reading these boards it appears to me as if it can be difficult to see a specialist, but you really need to see a gynae and a psychiatrist.

Thanks, lastinglight and violator, yes I agree completely.

There seems to be a reluctance to really investigate, I know this sounds like an angry woman statement, but let's be honest, if men had periods and hormone illnesses, there'd be a hell of a lot more research and support!!! It's just clumped under 'PMT', and dismissed as 'a bit weepy before a period'.

It's not at all!!! I told 2 doctors in the last week that I was literally suicidal at times, and they did nothing but tell me to take antidepressants.

Thing is, Violator, I don't have that much faith in the blood tests. My mum has thyroid disease, and they tested her twice and classed her as 'normal'. Only when she collapsed did they test again, and it showed as abnormal. I suffer the same symptoms as her, yet all but 1 of my tests came back normal, the other 'borderline'.

I found an interesting article, if you google 'When is depression in women a matter of hormones - by Professor John Studd' , it's an interesting link.

Please let me know how you get on, I just don't know what to do, I know something isn't right, and I agree Lastinglight, I will go see one even if I have to pay privately!!!

I came across John Studd recently, I nearly cried reading his website because he could have been describing me.
There's strong history among the women in my family of so-called "breakdowns" around perimenopause - and also underactive thyroids - so I took the bull by the horns and made an appointment to see a gynae privately.
Luckily I'm well informed on all this so I refuse to be fobbed off. I'm due to see the gynae early next month so I'll report back. I expect I will have some bloods done first.

With my 3rd DD I got sever depression whilst pregnant and became suicidal. When I fell pg again after birth control failed I had a termination at 5 weeks as I was terrified I would get depression again and be unable to look after 3 dcs. I have never had any depression prior to this pregnancy and no post natal depression with other DCS whilst pg or any post natal depression. As soon as I gave birth to dd3 the depression went and after the termination all I felt was relief.

Violator - do please let me know how you get on! Honestly, I'm just at my wits end...it makes it worse that things aren't great in most aspects life-wise, as well as this. I just can't seem to get one thing sorted...because it's a cycle of trying to sort out work/relationship, but the depression kicking in, so not being able to, so then I feel depressed and stressed about the work/relationship! Nightmare.

I'm seeing a counsellor privately on Monday morning, I couldn't bear the waiting lists on the NHS any more, and so I've booked in with someone - hoping it may help a little.

CoreyHaim- I know exactly what you mean, that's what I was like. It was awful, the depression was how I knew something was wrong, it just kicked in. I think I'm really sensitive to hormones, which makes me scared to death of ever having children in the future, as I can't bear to go through it again. I just don't get why Doctors are more sympathetic to this - having suffered both physical and mental problems in my life, I can safely say I'd take physical in a heartbeat! If you so much as sprain your ankle, a doctor will fix it there and then.

I was on waiting lists, it took 3 months before even seeing anyone from the mental health team, I was then just told to take more pills. I've been to my GP twice and told them I was suicidal, and they just said they'll put me on the waiting list to see a counsellor.

It's ridiculous, makes me so angry that in this day and age, mental health is just so absolutely draconian. Violator - I hope for both of us we get to the bottom of this, I just can't bear it. Please do keep me posted as to your appointments etc?? x

LP2206 I promise I will update after my gynae appointment. I completely understand how you feel. I'm devastated after realising my 'bad week' is going to happen just as we leave for a much-needed holiday shortly.

I haven't been right since my son was born, it's like I'm a completely different person, and not all of that is down to 'becoming a mum' and the lifestyle changes that go with it.

LP - I am convinced hormones can cause depression and anxiety, particularly after a pregnancy, it is as though a switch is flicked. My mental health was fine up until I had my second pregnancy, I was a bit of a worrier but nothing major. As soon as I stopped breastfeeding, hormones came back and I went so anxious it was hard to function at all.

I had CBT and during this, we figured out there was a pattern by looking at my score sheets I completed every week to assess my depression and anxiety levels. I had one week a month, maybe a bit more when I felt fine. The rest of the time I was a nightmare, constant panicky feelings. It was so obviously linked to PMT.

Yes there are CBT techniques that you can use but I wanted to stop the anxiety. I never got anyone to carry out blood tests, they all offered me ADs like you say, but I can't take them due to side effects. To cut a long story short I went on the contraceptive pill and am now almost fine. I get side effects from the pill but I'm happy to put up with this compared with the horrendous anxiety. I think the John Studd stuff needs to be more widely known about.

Wow, (it's LP the original poster btw, just got properly registered so changed name!!) Purplejelly, that's a nightmare. I really feel for you, and understand.

Do you mind me asking your age? My GP said to me that you "don't have PMT until you're mid 30's" - and said that I must be getting now at 35 nearly 36, and it was just one of those things.

Which pill did you try? They gave me Yasmin, but I was too scared to take it, as it lists depression as a side effect!!! Plus every time I've tried a contraceptive pill over the years, they've made me worse, and made me feel low.

Violator, yes, do let me know. I think it's shocking that we're all so fobbed off, the blood testing really doesn't give me much hope after reading the John Studd stuff, I know from having my thyroid tested that the ranges if 'normal' are so broad, just as Dr Studd says, it's not a one size fits all!!

I'm like you, in that I had a couple of good weeks, and I booked a trip abroad, for a potential job interview. At the moment (who knows if this is hormonal or circumstantial) I've plummeted again mood wise, and can't think of anything worse than a 10 hour flight alone, and interviews at the other end. Have cried my eyes out today, I just don't know where to turn. X

"You don't have PMT until your mid 30s"

Er, wrong!

Of course I cannot know if it is the same feeling as you experience, but yes I did feel depressed during early pregnancy and periods. Mine was due to undiagnosed hypothyroidism/hashimotos and associated anaemia. At that time the link between hypothyroidism and pre-eclampsia wasn't known. I had this in 2 pregnancies and believe itvwas linked to my thyroid function and hormonal changes.

I started a support thread for people with thyroid disorders (under general health). It is interesting reading.

If you go for a blood test again, I'd recommend you time it for when your perid has just started, as that is the time when you need to find outvwhat's going on.

I'm 36 Albark. All this started when I was 34. I did used to get PMT for as long as I remember but it was only a week or so of feeling irritable and a bit tearful. This recent thing was a whole different game.

The pill I'm on is called Femodene. I've tried lots of pills over time and had some minor side effects which have meant me having to try other pills, but they haven't caused depression for me.

Could it be this - Premenstrual dysphoric disorder? (Sorry for Daily Fail link) Seemingly it can be controlled by certain kinds of hormonal birth control. Hope you feel better soon.

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2625054/I-branded-mentally-ill-20-years-I-bad-PMT-The-severe-hormonal-disorder-affecting-five-cent-women-GPs-never-heard-of.html

Promised I'd update. I saw the consultant gynae yesterday.
A lovely man, he listened to me.

In a nutshell, this is what he said.

Testing hormone levels is pointless, because they would come back within regular range. It's not hormone levels that's the problem, it's that the hundreds of ovarian hormones (cos there's far more than just oestrogen and progesterone) affect the brain in pulses. And it's the pulses which cause hormonal ebbs and flows and the brain does not like disequilibrium.
So women in their 60s, who are post menopausal, don't suffer mood swings even though they have no oestrogen, it's because there is equilibrium.

He said women with severe PMS are more likely to suffer PND, and those who had PND more likely to suffer mood disorders premenstrually.

The pill can help some women but it can also induce depression so it's not a fail safe method to tackle cyclical depression and anxiety.

So the upshot is he's given me oestrogen patches to use for the second two weeks of my cycle. I haven't started them yet but will report back on how they're working out.

Forgot to add he told me to get my thyroid checked too, we've a strong family history of under active thyroid although mine was fine a couple of years ago.

I know I am coming a bit late to this thread but wanted to contribute my experience. Towards the end of last year and beginning of this one I suffered with same symptoms as described upthread. Just before period and for first couple of days during I felt wretched, full with self-hate and overwhelmed with angst.
I went to a natural health shop nearby, a small independent one, and described what was going on. I was recommended to take omega oils, vit B6 and magnesium. I took in large doses to begin with but less now. I feel it has made a significant difference. I still feel tension, I am a bit more grumpy, etc, on those days but I am not the crying heap I was before. It takes the edge off the feeling.