Ok this is getting desperate. What works on OCD? Anything?

[RandomCitizen]

This is about my mum.

I have had a few threads wondering what is going on with her - she is very religious but also very obsessive, she's had OCD since before I was born. It is all tied up and tangled up in knots.

There have been a lot of things where she has been overscrupulous and it's affecting our relationships with her badly - now she has started doing it with ds1.

Today they went to the beach, with ds2 and my dad. Ds picked up a pebble (no larger than an inch) and put it in his pocket. They went back to my parents' house where he made a small bonfire with my dad and burned it, so it got blackened, and then wanted to bring it home.

My mum said no, she was going to put it back as it belonged to the council

He really wanted it and she kept saying no. He told me this when he got back and I rang her to ask what happened.

She confirmed it, and said she is going to clean it first then take it back.

I said how do you know it's the council's and not just washed up from somewhere, she said she RANG them to ask because she saw some children selling hand painted pebbles one day and bought some and then felt like she should not have done

so she rang to check and apparently it was against the law to take pebbles, or to sell them, luckily the children were no longer there or I dread to think.

She is going nuts. I have told her this, we have had calm discussion, she insists she is following the letter of the law.

My dad just goes along with it. They are both lovely people but this is insane.

What sort of help can I try and get for her. I don't want her going slowly mad.

Oh and we had a laugh too, because I said the council will have her on a blacklist and she said, but I don't say who I am each time. I said they will KNOW who you are because no one else rings them about this stuff.

I said she should change her voice like the man on the cheese advert.

Inositol (a b-vitamin) is supposed to be good for OCD.

If you type into google "inositol" and "ocd" you will get a lot of information.

I think it needs to be taken in quite high dosages for maximum effect but you can bulk buy the powder and you can get the pills in any health food shop/online.

Oh wow, thankyou. I wonder if it might be caused by some sort of deficiency.

I doubt she will consider taking something like that but you never know.

Does CBT work for this?

I have had CBT myself and thought it was very good

and also - how to approach it with the children, because it's going to be something that upsets them, there's no way around that.

And I need her to have them occasionally, and I want her to know them and she is otherwise quite wonderful with them.

anyone?

OCD is diagnosed as OCD if it has a significant detrimental effect on an individual's day to day life. In other words, OCD behaviours are part and parcel of most people's make up (checking irons are off, intrusive thoughts, counting rituals for example) but it's the amount of time these take up plus the distress they cause to the individual (and others) that gives the diagnosis.

Is the pebble thing part of lots of other behaviours? Does she recognise this behaviour is irrational? Most OCDers are very aware that what they are doing isn't 'normal', but are powerless to stop it. It sounds to me (I am not a professional, just have lived a long time with OCD as my er, companion) that she has a type of OCD which fixates on rule/law breaking. Most OCDers are very law abiding, overly conscientious people.

Cognitive Behavioural therapy can really help, but only if she recognises the issue and wants to change. Some anti-depressants, particularly sertraline and fluoxetine can work wonders too.

Good luck and lastly, don't collude in her behaviour, if she wants to take the pebble back let her, but no-one else should carry out these compulsions on her behalf, as this will strengthen her belief that this was the right course of action to take.

Gosh thankyou Bill. That is a really great reply and I am very grateful to you for taking the time.

i have had similar issues myself - anorexia, and anxiety and so on but not really OCD to a great extent - I went through a period of it as a child and she told me it was silly and kind of steered me out of it somehow - though I don't know how, I think she pretended not to have it so she could help me.

She is a good mother
I always end up discussing it with her in detail and it doesn't get us anywhere - in fact I almost end up agreeing with her that logically it makes sense, it's just, it is hurtful to me, and now to ds - I get the feeling that I am never good enough to pass her very high standards, if that makes sense?

It's part of a long pattern of stuff - she has had huge issues over the legality of her electric bicycle, and things like that (many letters to the authorities etc, she seems to seek regulations, or knowledge of the absolutes of legality, in order to try and meet them and thus feel 'safe')

She had issues around her religion also - big time. She rings me up wanting to discuss sexual matters, a family member is gay and she has a huge problem with this, though on the surface is the most liberal parent ever and it creates a big conflict for her, not wanting to hurt any of us, but having to follow the guidance of the church/law before considering our feelings.

She goes from one extreme to another, being ultra controlling and weird and then ringing me to apologise.

I am getting pretty concerned for her. Dad is struggling too, his mother just died, he doesn't know how to cope with this except let mum carry on and support her as best he can.

I am starting to accept she may just stay like this forever but it is making me want to withdraw contact and that's just awful.

Thankyou again for your help - she used to have psychotherapy regularly but stopped and then got into the religion again. Not sure if she would go for CBT as she doesn't want to stop at the moment but I am glad to know it can work.

Sorry in short, no, she doesn't reckon it is irrational at all. 'A bit odd' is something she is happy with.

She cannot find the distinction, the line is very blurred for her between righteousness and just plain weirdness.

That's tricky. If she's reasonably happy with her eccentricities and not causing harm to others I'm not sure there's much you can do to change her behaviour.

The only thing you and your DCs can do is protect yourselves from distress, so maybe identifying future flash points around rule breaking so you can have a pre-planned response to her to pre-empt behaviour? For example, if you're going to another beach, raise the issue again and agree that your DS can take home pebbles or you're not going at all.

Or coming together with your Ddad and your DC to agree you will not put up with this behaviour and have an agreed response when she does behave in this way, walking away, shutting down the conversation etc. Sounds harsh but possibly the only way to send her the message you won't collude with her as it's affecting you all too much.

Yes - I am not sure what counts as collusion though, it is a bit tricky - I want to respect her feelings and her religion but she takes it way too far.

And it is hard to predict what the issues will be...for example I gave her a bag filled with giveaways once, as they offered to take them to the shop (they were going anyway) and Mum went through the whole bag, taking things out and reappropriating them, keeping some things, not for herself but for my children - and returning one thing to a shop, it was really weird - she had never done this before so I had no idea she even might, iyswim.

It feels like the only way to avoid it happening is to have no contact with her at all and that would be horrid, as she is a kind and lovely person, but she seems to hurt all of us quite often, without even thinking about it.

I might talk to Dad but this is the last thing he needs right now.

My sister is great and we are onto it, in a way, we talk about it etc but she lives miles away and isn't so close to Mum as I am. Also me and Mum are very matey and talk on the phone a lot - I wonder if I should cut back on this, maybe it makes it worse.

Thanks so much again for your words, just knowing someone understands what it is all about is very reassuring.

Random, thanks so much for replying on my other thread. I think you've probably realised now that traffic on this board is a little bit lower than Chat or AIBU, so think we've both had to be patient!

I don't have much advice but my DM is similar in a different way IYSWIM! She also has 'eccentricities', about things like hygiene - she is obsessive about it though also lives in a very cluttered house so it's a funny mixture of untidy but very clean. She uses a lot of disinfectant and has done things like, when I met her in the library once to go on the public computers, she pulled out crinkly plastic gloves to put on before she could touch the keys. There's lots more I can't think of just now but I think she's comfortable with that side of her personality so I'm not inclined to get her to change.

Just the "turning on me" in my other thread is totally out of character . She is up for CBT but I think the therapist has just referred her on somewhere else, and she won't be doing anything - not a thing - right now as I know she'll be utterly consumed by this dispute with me.

Thanks Artemis (it's me, sorry, namechanged)

I'm really sorry. I can't imagine my mum turning on me like that, it sounds frightening, and I am not surprised you are shocked by it.

Reading your thread again I am wondering if it may, and please don't be upset by this, but may be a symptom of confusion - age related, or possibly something like dementia?

I was thinking this about my own mum, but she has made a gradual decline into overscrupulousness and it isn't a sudden change.

I think it is definitely worth mentioning everything that you can to her GP. Including her aggressiveness.

God it is so sad.

I just spoke to my Mum to try and thrash it out for an hour and a half - a lot of that time she was crying I feel such a shit daughter. We got nowhere. Rules are rules and she cannot pick and choose, she must follow them.

Thanks for that Pato/Citizen and sorry for hijacking your thread!

Unfortunately I don't know who her GP is, or even which surgery, and she's obviously not communicating with me at all just now (and I really don't think she'd tell me atm, even if she was). She's always been a really private person.

Not sure about the dementia thing, though I will have a think about it, thanks ...

Sorry you had such a crap call with your mum. You're absolutely not a shit daughter! Coming on here, trying to find solutions ... if she's going to change at all I'm sure it'll be with your help and love ... but it's absolutely no reflection on you at all if she never does.

Thankyou so much Artemis and please hijack as much as you like - I think save for a few very dedicated and lovely people, who have replied to us, this part of the forum is rather given to tumbleweed

It is a shame she is on her own (your Mum, I mean). At least mine has got my Dad, which takes the pressure off a lot for me. And I have a sister as well.

I cannot imagine facing this if it were just me.
You sound like you absolutely have her best interests at heart. I understand she is a private person, so is mine. She sees a 'spiritual advisor' from time to time but does not trust them entirely, or anyone really. She is seeking reassurance really.

But you cannot go on being treated as though you have done something awful to her - because then if that gets intensified it will break down the only relationship she has really got. She really needs you.

I don't know what you can do apart from maybe talk to your own GP about it? Maybe they would have some advice.

it's so bloody hard. I am sorry.

Thanks again Pato. I have drafted a letter to her but haven't sent it yet. It basically says that I'm sorry she's been so upset by what's happened ...I'm not taking her words personally, and that I think her reaction is so extreme that I have to conclude she's not very well at the moment, and have implored her to make a GP appt. Does that sound ok to you? Hopefully that, plus giving her lots of space (no choice in that matter, really!) will eventually make it sink in that I wasn't being horrible to her.

Yes, it's kind of hard doing it alone (only child) - I do kind of feel so responsible for her happiness. I know, rationally, that it's not my responsibility but if, for example, we ever moved away (like, even 20-30 miles away) she'd be devastated and to use her words "would never recover". It has caused occasional problems in the past, with DH suggesting we move away for jobs etc. But the guilt would just kill me

It is difficult to know whether she will interpret that too as a threat and get very cross - only you know how she is likely to respond.

But OTOH I think it is all you can do.

God it is so hard.

Regarding the guilt trips she has given you about moving though - that sounds a bit more deliberate to me. I don't think it is fair that she has essentially stopped you going for jobs and so on because she would not 'recover'.

You're right, it's not fair, Pato, but at the same time, it's honestly not manipulative of her, or deliberate. It's so complicated to explain, but she's never said "You can't move away" or whatever ... she's just so fragile that I know she couldn't handle it. A few years ago, in fact, I mentioned in advance that there was just the possibility that we might be moving to a new house on an estate about 15 miles away. Her face fell, she pretended to carry on doing what she was doing for 15-20 seconds, looking through some paperwork, but then she got up, apologised and said something like "I can't do this" - and left my house abruptly. She wasn't storming out in anger, but fleeing in total distress. She then phoned me about 10 mins later in a state of agitation claiming that she thought DH was manipulating me into moving (her assumption being that I would never want to). This was utter fantasy, totally fabricated and she had no reason to think this at all. I'd love to live somewhere different, tbh! I really felt she'd had some kind of minor breakdown again that day and it took a while, again, before she felt able to talk to me.

Yikes, sorry again for droning on about me on your thread, Pato!! And thanks for your opinion re my letter - yes, I don't think there's really anything else I can do.

Oh pet yes I can see entirely that she isn't putting it on, I am sorry for suggesting it (ref: my own family and their weirdness!)

It sounds like she really is struggling.

I really hope that you can manage to get somewhere on this and that it calms down a bit. You sound like you're trying as hard as you can not to upset her and all credit to you for that.

Take care xx

Please don't apologise, Pato, you've given me loads of fab advice on this (i.e. YOUR! thread)

Think we all have weirdness in our families to some extent, don't we? . My cousins and I (children of my DM's sisters) frequently congratulate each other on managing to stay relatively normal with the slightly odd mothers we've had ...

Ikwym

Thankyou for all of your advice too, you have been great