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Mental health

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Original poster

Being put in a police cell as a "place of safety" - experiences?

30 replies

RowTheBoat · 20/06/2013 21:25

So it seems that being held under Section 136 and placed in a police cell is not such an exceptional occurrence
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22979198

I was held in a police cell for many hours one evening and it was one of the most scary things I have experienced. Admittedly I had been behaving a little strangely in public but I had no suicidal intent and really just needed to get home to bed.

I was picked up and told that they would take me home but then sectioned when I was in the car. I had to go through searches and a full check in at the custody suite with so many questions it made my head go even more fuzzy. I was then put in a locked cell with a cctv camera. I was alone and scared and this was so far removed from what I needed. After many hours of me sitting on the floor and crying the on-call doctor arrived to assess me. The local hospital unit was full and it was a Sunday night and he told me it would be difficult to arrange an ooh appointment with the next closest unit. He told me just to contact my CPN the next day. So I was released (!)

Back out (not taken home) I was pretty much in the same state as I was taken in but now I have a police record (albeit not criminal) that I guess will now show up in any CRB checks I have in the future.

So is this a common experience? This incident has made me nervous. If I needed help that night I certainly don't think putting me in a cell was helpful or appropriate.

OP posts:

TWinklyLittleStar · 20/06/2013 21:33

You absolutely don't have any record that will show up under a CRB check. That only happens if there is a 'disposal' after a crime (caution, possibly penalty notice). You weren't arrested or under suspicion of an offence at all. There is a record of you being detained, for force records no more.

A police cell is very much not ideal for people detained under S136, sadly most MH units won't take detainees if there is any hint of alcohol/drugs whatsoever, and there aren't many other places of safety. MH provision in this country is shit. The police shouldn't be dealing with people suffering from MH issues at all, ideally, but outside of 9 - 4, Mon - Fri there isn't an alternative.

Original poster

RowTheBoat · 21/06/2013 10:02

Is that definite about the CRB check? There would be NO record? This really worries me

OP posts:

Tiredtrout · 21/06/2013 10:07

There will be no record that would show up on a crb of your stay, the only reason all those questions are asked when people go into custody is so that the assistants can look after you. Also no officer likes taking anyone in to custody with mhi when they need help, it's not the right place at all to get the needed support but the provision for places of safety is constantly being cut

burberryqueen · 21/06/2013 10:14

i was also wondering about CRB since being held under the Mental Health Act (with no good reason apart from giving some rookie practice IMO, I was not even behaving/talking oddly) - released with no further action. Yet when questioned for routine traffic stuff, this came up and I had to explain what had happened on that occasion.
I work as an English teacher and may need to apply for an enhanced CRB check.
OP sorry to highjack your thread!

Tiredtrout · 22/06/2013 08:45

Sorry Burberry, the checks carried out by police at traffic stops are not the same as crb checks, it is just info that officers are made aware of sometimes for safety reasons. If a check is carried out and someone has got mhi officers are made aware if there is a record of it for the safety of the person stopped as well as the officer

burberryqueen · 22/06/2013 10:07

well i know that they are separate, but stilll i am worried - i have never had MHI, ever, so i am more than a bit fed up

Tiredtrout · 22/06/2013 10:30

Then that is properly weird

Tiredemma · 22/06/2013 10:36

Whether it comes up on a CRB or not is very much in the hands of the Police Force that you were 'detained' by. Its very unfortunate that the Pplice still view a police cell as a 'place of safety'.
Our Trust has a specific 'ward' now called 'place of safety' that Police bring people straight to.

QuanticoVirginia · 22/06/2013 10:55

tiredemma It isn't the police who view a police cell as a place of safety it's section 136 of the Mental Health Act 1983 which defines a place of safety as a ?hospital, police station, mental nursing home or residential home or any other suitable place?.

I think everyone would universally agree that a police cell isn't a suitable place for numerous reasons but the reality is that at 3am on Saturday it's nigh on impossible to find anywhere else to accept (I have before now in these circumstances been told by a DR in A&E to bring the person back at 9am on the Monday!!!)

A place of safety ward would be nirvana for all those involved.

Tiredemma · 22/06/2013 10:57

Sorryt I should have elaborated more- The police will often use a cell because its more 'accessible' than trying to locate an appropriate bed in any of the other establishments you have described. Its very difficult to find a 'safe place'.

Tiredemma · 22/06/2013 10:58

and I'm not criticising the police by the way!

Tiredtrout · 22/06/2013 11:03

Sorry Emma, but quite often officers have detained someone who is unwell and spend a very long time calling lots of suitable places of safety in a unit sometimes for my area over an hours drive away and they are turned away. Officers are often left with no choice but to take ill people who need help to custody when they know its not suitable. I have sat in a cell with a severely ill person who had self harmed on more than one occasion for my shift to keep them safe until someone more appropriate will come out

Madamecastafiore · 22/06/2013 11:17

I was unaware that you could be sectioned by the police so am not sure that this is what a really happened. You need an assessment by am AMHP to section you as we'll as a section 12 approved doctor.

It would be ideal if we had lots of provision for out of hours detained patients but in reality these are few and far between as it would be extremely costly as would only need to be used on an as and when basis but staffed constantly.

If you are building a new unit then you maybe have 20 beds but only 1 136 bed as you will not receive any revenue from your section 136 bed and so the impact in your coatings would be prohibitive.

So police cells are a place of safety, the impact may not be great but if you are detained due to being a danger to yourself or others then this is taken out of the equation.

Maybe the police need more training but to be honest whatever training they are given it would not be enough and the risk to the person who presents as me talky ill or others is too great.

And your insight into your presentation. And the appropriateness of your detention may not be entirely reliable if others suggested that you fit criteria for detention.

Tiredemma · 22/06/2013 11:20

Yes- thats what I am saying- A cell is all too frequently the only option- despite the terms laid out in the MH Act. Its very frustrating- (I'm agreeing with you!!- not disagreeing!)

FannyFifer · 22/06/2013 11:25

You can not be sectioned by police.
Two doctors needed to be detained under mental health act, afaik.

burberryqueen · 22/06/2013 11:27

well i was detained under the mental health act by police, when the doctor arrived after some hours, i was released as i patently did not have a mental health problem. sso...

Purple2012 · 22/06/2013 11:33

Police don't want to detain people with mhi but the reality is they often have no other option. Where I am we are meant to take people to the local mh unit. The majority of the time the unit won't take people. Various reasons, they have been drinking, unit full up, not enough staff etc. They know that the police will not just
Let the person go because of a duty of care so they can refuse as often as they like.

If the police don't detain someone and they go on to self harm or worse the police would be held accountable and slated by all.

dontrunwithscissors · 22/06/2013 11:35

I thought you can be detained by the police for a particular period of time in order to give time to conduct a MHA assessment? Also nurses can 'hold you' for a certain time to do the same. Not an expert at all, just what I thought to be th case. I'm in Scitland, where the rules are
Slightly different so don't know how it works here.

Tiredtrout · 22/06/2013 11:36

Police officers can detain under 136 for someone to be taken to a place of safety where amhp's attend to do an assessment and do the paperwork for a section. Quite often they have a different opinion to the officers that carried out the detention

FannyFifer · 22/06/2013 12:00

Didn't know that, detained for safety so not technically being sectioned.
Wonder if different in Scotland as never knew police could do that.

FannyFifer · 22/06/2013 12:03

Sorry RowTheBoat, I hope you are doing ok now, police were obviously acting in what they thought was your best interests and must have been worried about your behaviour.

Madamecastafiore · 22/06/2013 12:05

Being detained and being sectioned are very different legal states though.

nenevomito · 22/06/2013 15:23

I was in the back of a police can under a 136 for quite a while, while they decided what to do with me. Wasn't great. Doesn't show up on a crb though.

mrsdrew · 24/06/2013 15:14

Hi, I work in MH. S136 is a Police power which means they can take someone that they have concerns about (in terms of their MH and that person is in a public place) to a 'Place of safety'. It is not being detained under the MHA. It does not show up on an advanced CRB check. X

burberryqueen · 25/06/2013 09:05

ok mrsdrew, that sounds good, but when i was detained the police officer said 'i am detaining you under the mental health act'. Later I was released with 'no further action'. Would that show up?

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