Help without Anti Depressants

[SugarHut]

I'd really like some (kind,helpful) advice please, as I've seen some very harsh and condescending things written where people seem to genuinely be seeking help.

I have a 5yr old boy, and being very honest, I've never really even liked him...I feel like if I could press a button and it would take me back to never have fallen pregnant then I would press it like a shot. I make myself be as good a mother as I can, I hug him and tell him I love him, but I feel nothing. I don't feel repulsion, or hatred, but I feel nothing towards him. It makes me so sad...mainly for him, although I feel I hide it well and he's none the wiser. I long for the 2 days a week my mother has him when I can be me. I'm not a drippy "woe is me" failure, I'm a very strong woman, he's in private school, I have a very good job, which is not even very demanding...on the outside, I look like I have it made....but I wanted a girl so very badly, and every day I feel disappointed.

He's very smart, he gets outstanding reports, his behaviour is excellent, they are talking about putting him up a year in school...all things other parents tell me are amazing. On the outside I smile and gush and agree...on the inside I couldn't care less. I hate it.

Does this sound like depression? I can't bring myself to take any medication, so please don't advise me too. And please don't lecture me for "you shouldn't have had a child if you only wanted a girl" yes I did...but trust me if I knew I'd be this permanently disengaged and hate it to the extremes I do, then I would not have had him and saved us both. No pointless battering me for a decision I can not reverse, I feel bad enough as it is.

I look at other children at the school, and if I look at one of his little girl friends, I imagine it was my child and I get overwhelmed with these warm loving feelings, I want to pick her up and cuddle her, take her shopping, brush her hair, make cakes with her, read stories with her, I feel overwhelming pride and love even though it's a random child, then I look at him and want to cry. I am looking at him right now, and I picture him being a girl and I feel like there is so much love in me for a girl and he's just this child in my house that I don't even feel related to that's ruined my life.

What do I do??? Are there any non medication routes that actually work if I am depressed? Does it even sound like depression? I know these feelings aren't normal, and I know it shouldn't have taken me 5 years to say something about it. But anyone who has had a remotely similar experience please help me. x x x

[SugarHut]

Working9... Unconditional regard and compassion....again, very interesting point to think on....
I wouldn't say I need to feel that the way I feel is fully accepted irrespective of how crazy it sounds. With whoever I see with regards to this, I would say I have no time for useless advice. If someone can't understand what I am saying, fails to interpret, through either my lacking explanatory skills, or their lacking brain power, it is impossible for me to take their advice/views/diagnosis with any degree of importance, because they can't possibly provide constructive assistance when they have misunderstood the fundamental basics of the problem.

Again, how many times...getting sick to the fucking back teeth of "mummy issues" "daddy issues"....how much more simply do I need to state that this is NOT a problem. Perhaps as I write this for the 10th time someone might allow it to sink in. It's not defensive, it's not denial, it's getting sick of people thinking they know my situation better and being too ignorant to HEAR that they are barking up the wrong tree. There are lots of points that I perhaps wouldn't have put as contributing factors that have been raised on this thread, some I agree with, some I am reluctant to agree with as it's not a great reflection on me, but see that there is a lot of truth behind them and admit that they probably are part of my problem. Parenting experience. Is. Not. One. Of. Them. If you want to write to someone with childhood issues I'm sure there are plenty of threads you can join, and stop clogging up space on here, when I am actually receiving some platinum advice on the real issues.

x x x

[Salbertina]

A little empathy goes a long way...

Am feeling angry and very sad in equal measure and will leave this thread now.

[SugarHut]

Salbert...repeatedly telling someone that they don't understand, and yet is too ignorant to acknowledge that I know my own mind and feelings are not what they "textbook" diagnose is not lashing out. It's telling someone repeatedly that they do not get it. It's wasting time and space on a thread that has been such a wonderful tool for me and some incredibly helpful people have posted on.

I'm wasting time now, addressing the point to you talking about these people. Let's stick to the issue in hand please....

I don't need a hug, as I don't really feel physically sad. I feel appalled at some of the thoughts I have, and some of the posts I've typed on here that are particularly stripped back to the bone have made me tearful, but I don't actually get sad on a daily basis...Working9 very aptly used the word numb. I don't feel like I'm not coping with him, I just don't feel. I've had a very happy day in many other areas.

x x x

[working9while5]

Sugar, you really need to keep posting here so try not to speak to other posters in ways more suited to Am I Being Unreasonable because it will not add anything to the thread and I don't think you fully grasp how unpleasant it is to read and to see.

I would say that it would not be typical for people who are depressed to wish misery on their children. The description of complete apathy and indifference is much closer to the state of severe postnatal depression than anyone wishing misery. It is a sort of deadness inside. I think that wish to feel something, anything is one that many people who have experienced severe postnatal depression could empathise with.

Again, I'm not diagnosing you. Just dispelling myths here.

I think the fact you recognise this and that something is abnormal is really positive. I think there are many people who feel as you do but never realise that it is as strange and unusual as it is. My own grandfather told my father that the moment he saw my aunt (his second child), he disliked her and felt nothing for her. People react particularly strongly to mothers expressing this lack of love but I don't believe you are alone. I just think it has gone on a very long time and has become entrenched.

I'm interested in what it is you feel that your mother did in helping you feel loved, special, cared for, mannered, disciplined, generous, healthy that you feel is gender specific. What was she DOING that you couldn't do with a boy, for interest's sake? What is the loss here, the future you imagined that you lost even before your son come into this world?

I also have another thing for you to try.

If you were to imagine your current feeling about the situation as an object and place it outside of yourself, can you describe it? If it could move, would it be fast or slow? What size is it? What would it be made of?

And then, if you have cared to try that, you might like to try making an object of your resistance to your son... what would that look like/be?

[orangeandemons]

Sugar, I remember feeling a bit like this, especially when my ds was little. But one day I realised I loved him passionately. It happened slowly

I wanted a girl too. My ds is now 19 and is one of my best friends. He is as sensitive, caring and as easy to talk to as any woman

I also have the dd I wanted and wanted to share my life with. She is willful, stubborn and determined. Ds was much much easier. I think you perhaps might one day realise that you are very attached to your ds, but it may be a slow realisation.

[EstelleGetty]

Working is making some incredibly wise suggestions, Sugar, do heed what she says.

One thing I'd say about childhood issues is that they don't necessarily have to be the most obvious absent/distant parent ones. I had an idyllic childhood and yet here I am, with a very painful anxiety disorder. If anything, perhaps, I'm remembering it as perfect when it wasn't. My DM and sister recently brought up a couple of incidents from my childhood (not to do with the family, but rather with external factors). I had totally forgotten them, blocked them. And when I think back I can see clear connections with a lot of the issues I have today.

If a therapist does ask you to delve into your past, don't be put off. The way we are now is in so many ways a product of our early socialisation, whether that's in the home or elsewhere. Allow yourself to take your time to find some answers, and let yourself accept the help you need.

[SugarHut]

Working9...I would have to agree with you that I don't grasp how unpleasant it is....I would say when you politely say something once, for it to be ignored and continued to be told that "black is blue"...for you to repeat, no, it's really not the case, for it to be dismissed and yet again told "black is blue"...by the 7th time round when I'm frankly ( and probably deservedly) irate with the pure superiority and ignorance of it all, to say that I'm sick to the back teeth and spell things out, no I'm afraid I don't see that as unpleasant in any shape. I doubt it needs saying, you are clearly not in this category...and I certainly don't feel like you are diagnosing me, I am quite touched by how precisely you seem to have taken aboard and understood to a tee.

The things my mother did, were perhaps not gender specific, she took me shopping a lot, horse riding, swimming, gymnastics, I was funnily enough a tomboy (looked like a Barbie doll, but played in the mud with transformers) to about age 14, then became super girly and have been since. What did she do to make me feel so many things? Nothing I can put my finger on, it was just effortless love. She wanted me so badly, and just had so much time for me. I just remember always having fun. My loss is more what our relationship has become, we are virtually identical, like best friends, identical tastes, love spa days together, love having our hair and nails done, love sewing together, go to cookery days together. She is not as girly as me, quite Audrey Hepburn. I'm much more frilly. None of these things interest a boy, and I wouldn't expect them too. I suppose the visualisation of what we won't have in the future makes me not care now. It's not that I think I'll lose him to a wife and feel alone, I just don't like anything to do with boys, and just can't find anything to like about him...even though I see "on paper" so to speak what a fantastic child he is.

My future always had a child in it. A daughter, that I will never have now, for I actually feel I will start being nasty to him if he gets in the way of a daughter I may have. Then the vicious cycle of not only am I stuck with a boy, he's ruined the dream of me ever being able to have my beautiful daughter. Would I resent him being here more with or without what I want?

With regards to the objects, the first would be big, slow, grey, circular, smooth.

The second my mind goes blank. Although I'm not too sure how my feelings about the situation are a different thing to the resistance to my son.

You my dear, are worth your weight in gold for the things you make me face up to and question x x x

[waterlego6064]

I am a woman and have never been interested in spa days, sewing, interior design, nail decoration and what have you. There is no guarantee at all that your hypothetical daughter would like any of things, nor that you would have been able to 'shape' her into someone who likes those things.

Can I just ask, what is different about the way your mum behaved towards you and the way you behave towards your son? You 'go through the motions' with your boy, to make him believe he is loved. You say he has no idea of your real feelings. In what way is your treatment of him different to how your mother treated you? That isn't a rhetorical question.

[waterlego6064]

And you are wrong to say 'none of these things interest a boy'. My son loves cooking and baking. I know boys who enjoy sewing and making clothes.

[Hoophopes]

Sugar, have you decided what you want to ask your gp to refer you to refer you to? The NHS waiting list can take 2-4 months so might be helpful to ask for a referral ASAP (I only suggest that as I had to wait this year 16 weeks to see a psychiatrist about medication and it was a frustrating wait and had I realised the wait I would have asked for the appointment sooner). Also depending on where you live, here a standard psychiatrist referral results in an hour assessment, usually by a SHO who has a list of standard questions. I found that frustrating, and it asks all sorts of questions that one may not consider relevant to them. Then several months later I saw the consultant for a 20min appointment to consider diagnosis and medication. I only share my experience to let you know that hoping a psychiatrist can totally understand someone in a short meeting can be unrealistic. As you point out here many posters have frustrated you and not provided you with helpful comments. I just want you to be prepared to not get a lightbulb moment immediately with an NHS system. It can be a lengthy and frustrating process.

It is helpful if you can have clear goals and talk openly from the onset to get your needs met. I will admit that I was so low that I could not share what my issues were so got the standard, take these drugs and come back in 6 months. If you know what you hope for you can ask for it, whilst being aware it may not be possible.

[calypso2008]

Did you want a daughter in order to have an extension of yourself, like you seem to be an extension of your mother? You seem very concerned with appearance, did you want her to be a 'mini-me' a 'Barbie Doll' as you described yourself when you were small.

What if she hadn't been your idea of beautiful?

Aswaterlego says, she may have hated Spa days and painting her nails, just like me she may have wanted to have been a doctor or a foreign aid worker or a lesbian. Would you have been disappointed if she hadn't fitted your ideal. You sounds very fixed in what you wanted your daughter to be like, even planning future Spa trips. I do find it a Little misguided.

Of course boys love to cook, plant seeds, play with dolls even.

[SugarHut]

Ignoring the foolish and sodding obvious....perhaps people should try reading the whole post before you make such a well informed comment...

Hoops...I kind of don't know what to ask for...I don't seem to have many symptoms of depression. But I have a lot of faith in Working9's views thus far, and she suggests quite a deep post natal depression. I don't know if I'm depressed or even what I do feel...no idea at all what camp to throw myself in

x x x

[SugarHut]

Also, the karting suit and helmet arrived today....looks rather cool. He is beside himself. I'm less excited than when the idea was first presented for me to try, but I'm going to persevere x x x

[Hoophopes]

I think a peri-natal psychiatrist sounds ideal, but am unsure if you can get referred to one. I was referred to one by a psychologist but was refused access to one ( on NHS) unless I had diagnosed pnd or psychosis post pregnancy. Here they only treat parents on NHS until child is 18mths. That is why I think if you can afford private you are less likely to be disappointed and I would be concerned with your reaction if you saw any of the MH workers I have seen!!!! You may have an excellent NHS provision but as you have a very specific issue and good insight into what your issue is I just thought targeting it with your request for referral would be helpful.

[calypso2008]

Perhaps your lovely little boy can teach you some manners? Some self awareness even?

Good Luck OP.

[Hoophopes]

I agree with working's posts too but lack her eloquence!

[Shakey1500]

Hello again

Can I ask about your son's father? Does he have/has he had any involvement since the 18months? Does he support you (emotionally/practically) from a distance etc?

[orangeandemons]

I also think that perhaps your relationship is maybe a bit unhealthy with your mother. Perhaps this idealisation is preventing you from bonding with your little boy who does sound lovely

[SugarHut]

The child's father has little to no involvement. Pays full support, voluntarily. Not a bad person, but can not separate me, from me and The Boy, and it all gets very heavy and not a positive thing when he enters his life, so we have a sort of "gentlemans" agreement that until he is over our relationship that is no longer, and can spend time with his son rather than concentrating on getting us back together, that he doesn't see him at all, as it is not good for him to appear and disappear so sporadically.

I felt this from prior to the birth though, so whilst it probably isn't helping much, the problems were well there already before we split x x x

[SugarHut]

Orange, why does it sound unhealthy to you? This is a serious question, as I find nothing I would want to change? x x x

[showtunesgirl]

OP, when did your DS's father leave?

[waterlego6064]

OP, I am going to ask this question again, since it is not always clear who you are addressing in your responses:

What is different between the way you interact with your son, and the way your parents interacted with you?