Help without Anti Depressants

[SugarHut]

I'd really like some (kind,helpful) advice please, as I've seen some very harsh and condescending things written where people seem to genuinely be seeking help.

I have a 5yr old boy, and being very honest, I've never really even liked him...I feel like if I could press a button and it would take me back to never have fallen pregnant then I would press it like a shot. I make myself be as good a mother as I can, I hug him and tell him I love him, but I feel nothing. I don't feel repulsion, or hatred, but I feel nothing towards him. It makes me so sad...mainly for him, although I feel I hide it well and he's none the wiser. I long for the 2 days a week my mother has him when I can be me. I'm not a drippy "woe is me" failure, I'm a very strong woman, he's in private school, I have a very good job, which is not even very demanding...on the outside, I look like I have it made....but I wanted a girl so very badly, and every day I feel disappointed.

He's very smart, he gets outstanding reports, his behaviour is excellent, they are talking about putting him up a year in school...all things other parents tell me are amazing. On the outside I smile and gush and agree...on the inside I couldn't care less. I hate it.

Does this sound like depression? I can't bring myself to take any medication, so please don't advise me too. And please don't lecture me for "you shouldn't have had a child if you only wanted a girl" yes I did...but trust me if I knew I'd be this permanently disengaged and hate it to the extremes I do, then I would not have had him and saved us both. No pointless battering me for a decision I can not reverse, I feel bad enough as it is.

I look at other children at the school, and if I look at one of his little girl friends, I imagine it was my child and I get overwhelmed with these warm loving feelings, I want to pick her up and cuddle her, take her shopping, brush her hair, make cakes with her, read stories with her, I feel overwhelming pride and love even though it's a random child, then I look at him and want to cry. I am looking at him right now, and I picture him being a girl and I feel like there is so much love in me for a girl and he's just this child in my house that I don't even feel related to that's ruined my life.

What do I do??? Are there any non medication routes that actually work if I am depressed? Does it even sound like depression? I know these feelings aren't normal, and I know it shouldn't have taken me 5 years to say something about it. But anyone who has had a remotely similar experience please help me. x x x

[orangeandemons]

I don't know really-just a hunch. You make no mention of your father which is where you would have learnt about males.

I just find some similarities between yourself and me. My dad died when I was very young, and I grew up in an all female household. I was very very close to my mum in my early 20's, she was my bets friend etc etc. But now 20 years later with the benefit of hindsight, she devoted too much time to me and my sister instead of making her own life. As she had no husband she replaced this missing person with daughters as her companions. Not that there is anything wrong with this, but she should have had her own life too and she didn't. Is this what is happening with you?

I grew up in an all female household, and was horrified at having a boy. I cried for 2 weeks, and took me a long time to get over it. I knew nothing anout boys and men really, they were a totally alien species.But he was so lovely. Gentle, caring affectionate and still is. My daughter is very awkward and difficult.

I just wonder if you have properly broken free of your mum and become your own person, because reading your posts it seems that maybe you haven't quite managed that. I think this excessively female relationship which is constantly referred to is stopping you bonding with the male bit of your son. As I said earlier you talk lots about your mum, but don't mention your father at all.

I hope this doesn't sound judgemental in any way, I was just trying to give a bit of insight based on ,my very female background

[SugarHut]

Something has just occurred to me. Having stated the problems started the day I was told "it's a boy" at the 20 week scan. Apart from the initial devastation reaction of crying, a lot, my feelings have actually not changed one bit. I've never realised that before.

I am no more or less engaged at this very present moment than I was at 20 weeks. I have not improved or worsened.

Perhaps when he was born, and the disappointment of knowing what was coming then became a real thing placed beside me, I felt worse, but only temporarily, once I had resigned that there was bugger all I could do about having him now.

I don't have good and bad days either really....as I never get any emotion related to him. My good and bad days all come from other factors x x x

[orangeandemons]

How would you feel if your ds had a serious illness? I know this isn't a nice question, but am just trying to gauge your reaction

[orangeandemons]

Where is your own father in this?

[cabbageandbeans]

Sugarhut, it is amazing that you have acknowledged this and that you recognise things could be different. I also don't think you are alone in this - but it is one of those things that people cannot talk about with other mothers, for all sorts of reasons.

No one going to report you to social services or take away your child for this. So of course you should seek help from your GP OR you can contact an IAPT service which s far as I know take self referrals (it is probably where your GP will refer you to anyway).

I am no completely sure you have depression - it would be important to know how you feel about other things in your life, your motivation, sleep, eating.....Nonetheless, there is something unsatisfying about your relationship with your son and plastering on a fake happy mum face just won't help (ever, so don't convinced yourself that just because you've made it this far that method can get you through the rest of you and your sons life).

No matter how good you think you are at covering this up and hiding it from your son, he will know. You might make it to your deathbed without ever discussing it with him, but he will know. I assure you - deal with this now while he is still a young child - you can have fulfilling relationship with him - it is possible but it will require a lot of effort on your part. (it will probably be less work than pretending all the time, though.

I suspect that in addition to some talking therapy (personally I am a fan of CBT as it can be very practical on a day to day basis, but as another comment said you may need something more in-depth), you'll probably need to find ways to connect with your son now. You admit to not having played with him - but this is the way that children understand and interact with their world. IT may feel like a form of torture but you might like to think about something that you can do together that you might both enjoy. Clearly you are feminine and enjoy those things - but what about doing something with him that neither of you have done before? It can be anything, something simple, but it has to be something that helps you to connect with each other - maybe requiring teamwork. Something that you can't pull out of because it is not your thing and likewise. You can keep a diary for 1 week and note down everything you do with your child - interactions and your feelings during the interactions. Sometimes we need to see things in black and white to really see the situation clearly.

Urgh, I can't believe how much I have written! I really wish you luck, I think it is really important that you can improve this situation.

[showtunesgirl]

Interesting OP. So essentially from the 20 week scan, even from then, your DS ceased to be of interest to you? Please note, there is no judgement in my tone here, I'm just trying to see the background.

[Hoophopes]

Would your dh have custody of your son? Would you want that? Perhaps leave you free to have another relationship and perhaps a dd? Or are you wanting to change how you are so you and your ds can have a different future from now and for you to feel different? Am just unsure what you are wanting, for your situation to change or for family therapy or for help for your son or for help for you? Sorry just thinking out loud, am just thinking back to my question about what referral you are wanting? Would some family therapy with an educational psychologist to work with you and your son be a different approach?

I think working's insight about perinatal support is useful. Right, am rambling so will stop! Apologies for anything you do not like I have posted, not intended to upset.

[Shakey1500]

Sugar Just harking back to how I felt before Thunderbolt Day, I remember continuously panicking that my true feelings would be discovered by family, friends. That I would be uncovered and revealed as a terrible mother. By nature I generally worry about what people think of me (about 90% of the time, the other 10% I seem to catapult to the opposite and really don't give a fuck).

I wonder, how would you feel if your mother read the thread? Would you be gutted?

[Shakey1500]

Orange OP has explained about parentage near the beginning of the thread.

[waterlego6064]

I'll ignore it...in the hope there are some adult education classes available as a distraction....

You may believe that the answer to my question is obvious, but it really isn't.

I have nothing to be ashamed of with regards to my level of education, and as you know nothing at all about me, you would be wise not to judge.

You do seem to have great difficulty in being civil. I appreciate you may not like everyone's opinions or questions, but you absolutely don't need to be so rude, you really don't, especially when people are taking time out of their day to try to help you. Posts that don't say exactly what you want them to say can be easily ignored.

When you ask for opinions and advice on a public internet forum, you will get all sorts of responses. Ones you like, and ones you don't like.

I hope you will seek psychiatric help. All the best of luck to you and your son.

[orangeandemons]

I know, but I can't find any mention of her df

[cabbageandbeans]

Have just read some pages that I didn't realise were there. Sugar, you sound like you just want some simple barebacked advice and direction without all the fuss of psycho analysis.

Go to your GP, ask for 1:1 CBT and I think that will be an excellent starting place. You will get to talk to one professional person and not a mass of mothers on the internet. I promise it will help.

[orangeandemons]

I have read the whole post. I can't find it! I've read it 3 times!

I don't for one minute think your mum isn't happy, BUT is she giving you the freedom to be who you really are, or are you an extension of her. Both of these things can be done quite unconsciously and without any malice. Do you feel you have developed into an adult with your own identity independent of your dm?

[orangeandemons]

I think your overwhelmingly female background are what are causing the bonding issues. But boys are absolutely lovely too.

[working9while5]

One thing I am noticing here is that I think that you are hearing me because I am not judging you.

I don't know if it is depression but in some ways, again, labels are only a very small part of the story. There's always overlap and things that don't quite fit but the most clear issue that we can all agree on is that you have had tremendous difficulties attaching to your son.

I think it might be helpful to have a think about values. When you first decided to have a baby or even to conceive, what were the values you aspired to in imagining yourself as a mother?

By values, I mean those deep and abstract qualities of self that you hoped would enfold in you when you had a child. So nothing to do with specific activities, memories of your own life or hopes for material possession or future events. If you could strip it all down and indeed strip down the relationship you have with your mother to four or five words representing the core values you would aspire to as a mother, what would they be?

I wonder from your posts whether there is a very specific restriction on female and male roles within your family, social or cultural milieu that means that you can't imagine closeness with an adult son. Like Cabbageandbeans, I grew up in a female household and initially felt discomfort about having a son. This was also somewhat made more problematic by a high degree of male alcoholism and previous sexual trauma I had endured. I worried about what having a boy would be like. I particularly worried that if I ever separated from my dh that I would be unable to control boys and they would end up rampant criminals. These were the outpourings of my feverish worried mind. Through CBT I realised there were strange beliefs underpinning this, things my mother had said about boys that I had bought into.

What messages did your family give you about what being a mother of boys would be like?

[PicardyThird]

I have just discovered this thread, and am desperately, desperately sad for your son, OP. You seem to need careful handling but I don't see why I should keep that from you.

I too would be interested in your response to oranges' question as to how you would feel if he had a serious illness. Also, I was struck by how you asked, in one of your early posts, whether he would be taken away if you sought help. If you are indifferent towards him and want him out of your life, why worry about him being taken away?

I would also echo her questions about your bond with your mother. It seems to me as if you are investing emotional energy in her which rightly belongs invested in your son. You are so very drawn to her and so very repelled (and I know you say you don't feel repulsed, but essentially this is repulsion, sorry) by him. How does your mother relate to him (sorry if I have missed this)? Does she love him or is she uninterested too?

Have you ever spoken to other mothers of boys about their experience of having boys? Not revealing anything of your feelings, but listening to them telling you theirs?

I don't know whether you are depressed, but I do know something has gone terribly, terribly wrong here, and it is taking an enormous effort not to judge you. I know you won't want to hear that, but I don't think sparing you the facts would help.

[working9while5]

I also would caution people against calling troll. I was a very angry person on MN once (four days post birth, in the middle of what I now realise was the beginning of a severe depression and in a slightly elevated/hyped up/enraged state) and I know I was called a troll. I was just deeply unwell. I also spoke to people in a way I would NEVER dream of doing when well.

[working9while5]

Oh and another random thing, I once read a quote that what all women most desire in life is to be the subject of their own lives instead of merely the object of others. Do you think that maybe you have some idea that men or males might reduce, exclude or belittle you that you have reacted to in having a boy?

[SugarHut]

Orange....if he had a serious illness, I would care that he was not in pain, but terrible as it sounds, if anything happened to him, I would feel sad, but free to have my daughter.

Cabbage, thank you, I hope to improve, frankly, I need to.

Showtunes, you are correct. Until the day before I was rushing round buying everything under the sun, anything baby related. The day I found out I don't think I got anything else after that. I bought Tesco value baby grows the week before he was being born because I refused to buy anything any more expensive for this child I didn't care for. No judgement taken, it's a perfectly reasonable question.

Hoop, no his father would not cope with him full time. If he could I would love nothing more than to give him over to him, but I know my mother, grandmother etc would never speak to me again. Also I could live with the guilt of knowing he was growing up so unwanted by his mother that she gave him away. I have no choice but to try and improve my mind, because there really is no alternative. Do I want a future with him in it? No. Do I have any other choice, realistically. No.

Shakey, the 90/10 thing. Oh that's so me. That's why it's so refreshing to be so open on here, you are all words on a screen, I am anonymous and in that I feel safe to be brutally honest. Would I be gutted if she read this? No, it would break her heart in two. She would probably over obsess and freak out, and try and make me move back home. It would certainly ruin our relationship.

x x x

[orangeandemons]

I think the last 2 messages are spot on.

How is parenting boys viewed in your family, which does sound almost smotheringly female?

And..the emotional energy you should be investing in your ds is being invested in your dm

[Shakey1500]

13.01 Page 1 oranges

working I wish you'd been my counsellor years ago. I'd have loved those types of questions