Mother and baby unit??

[martha2013]

Does anyone have any experience of such places? I'm 39+3 weeks pregnant with my very much planned and wanted second child. I have a diagnosis of bipolar and due to risks to baby have recently stopped my anti-psychotic. My psychiatrist thinks my mood is becoming high. I disagree. She is talking about mother and baby hospital after birth. I'm terrified and thinking of doing a runner!

[SnapCackleFlop]

Martha - hope you are alright in all of this. Hope that you're getting some rest and being kind to yourself

Working9while5 - thanks for articulating that so well

[martha2013]

Working and snap, thank for being so incredibly kind. Your support is really helpful and I'm astonished at the selfless way it keeps coming! As I read through there is so much I would like to say but when it comes to it, I feel all jumbled up!

One of the reasons I am so tired is that I don't feel comfortable with my daughter being out of my sight. I am so scared something awful will happen to her. I keep seeing it over and over.

I don't think I can improve without meds but am too worried about side effects for my daughter to take them. feel very stuck.

[SnapCackleFlop]

Martha, I'm glad you've posted again (just had to get ds back to sleep and now am awake and can't get back to sleep!).

I understand what you're saying about how difficult it is trying to balance everyone's needs, the benefits and risks of medical care, your deep love and desire to do what's best for your daughter and to look after yourself.

It sounds to me that this horrible illness is warping the already immense fears and anxieties that most mothers face when they have a baby.

I think it's very positive that you've decided you may need some medication for a while to support you and to help you not to be overcome by this illness. You mentioned up thread that you would prefer to take depakote as it had fewer side effects for you. I did a quick search of some of the general resources and this seems to be a good medication to take while breastfeeding. I would be very happy to contact our (lll) professional liason to find some more detailed research/information about taking this while breastfeeding so that you can read it and decide if you would feel happy to take it for a while.

You know this anyway but when breastfeeding (and indeed just when being alive!) everyone is always weighing up risks and benefits and hopefully making the best choice they can under the circumstances. There's powerful evidence about the benefits of breastfeeding even when the mother smokes or takes all sorts of drugs and even some very compelling stuff about how positive breastfeeding can be when the mother is Hiv positive.

Looking after yourself is in turn a way of loving your children and doing what's best for them. You know best what's right for you and for your family.

Would you be happy for me to gather some info from the professional liason about breastfeeding and depakote? Are there any other medications I could also try to find out about for you?

Take care. x

[DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved]

Well done OP you are hanging in there.

Are you still seeing the community health people/ medics? Do they know how difficult everything is for you? Any ideas from them?

Are you able to think ahead at all (I know it's really difficult), when would you think about phasing out breast feeding? It's so difficult as its really really good for your baby, but it's also really really good for your baby to have a mummy who is well too - such tough choices, my heart goes out to you x

[working9while5]

How are you doing Martha, any further on with meds? For me I needed the breastfeeding from a mental health point of view as much as anything because it was protective of my bond with my baby (as it was quiet cuddle time that I valued and that gave me some space with him as it was something I needed to do, it couldn't be taken away by someone else to do so it was a regular time of deep contact every day). It was also protective of my sleep.

I did take the drugs though. Not the exact dose they would have wanted but more than I was initially comfortable with. It is a balancing act. Your worries about the medical side effects in terms of risk are just your illness talking, they are very small but it's so hard to not inflate that when you are ill.

You can definitely take the drugs safely and continue to breastfeed so if it is for you as it was for me (which it may not be of course) then I would take that giant leap and just trust that you can take the drugs to support you back to wellness and that they won't harm your little girl. It is a massive and hard decision either way, just sharing my experience.

[martha2013]

I breastfed my son for 15 months and not only did I really enjoy the closeness but felt proud that I was doing something right for him. I worked full time throughout this period too, couldn't afford maternity leave! I am really lucky to have 9 months this time to enjoy my daughter so it never even occurred to me that I wouldn't feed her myself for as long as possible. There is also a fair amount of pressure from my family/in laws to breastfeed.

Got a couple of parties to go to today. Feeling so worried about taking her to them I can barely breathe. I keep deliberately thinking the worst has happened just so I don't have to feel so anxious anymore. Does that make any sense?

[SnapCackleFlop]

Martha - are the parties children's ones or grown up ones? If it's a kids one you older dc has been invited to could your dh or someone else take him so you can 'babymoon' at home? The illness isn't anyone else's business but it would be very understandable that a woman with a very young baby is going to stay home to rest/look after baby.

Otherwise I'd personally think nothing of declining the invitations unless you're keen and happy to go.

Regarding the breastfeeding, I know how great it can be and I remember some interesting research that it can actually be helpful for the mother's mental health (could try to find references if you'd like). Having said all that I hate the thought of someone feeling awful about breastfeeding and feeling they have to be it because of pressure etc.

I really think it's fine not to go to the parties if you don't want to - I'd had a caesarean with dd1 and didn't go out much in the early weeks at all - definitely no parties that were going to cause me more worry and stress. I think there's also a worry when a baby is your second child and you try to do a lot to ensure dc1 doesn't feel pushed out and that everything's changed. To be honest I think a lot of parents make life very hard on themselves - if I was doing it all again I'd put a lot less pressure on myself but I think it's easier looking back to appreciate that this time is so fleeting - harder when you're in the middle of it.

[working9while5]

"I keep deliberately thinking the worst has happened just so I don't have to feel so anxious anymore. Does that make any sense?"

I think this was essentially the entire drift of my OCD in the postnatal period (and there's a lot of overlap with depression). I had this whole thing where I would obsessively read blogs etc written by people whose babies had died to give myself some reassurance I could survive if the baby died. Sick, literally... my poor, poor mind was so addled it was concocting all sorts of strange rituals to try and stop natural fears of harm coming to my treasured baby. It was explained to me that part of this is to lower your mood to dampen the anxiety so you are choosing it in a way as the lesser of two evils.

I went to a wedding when ds2 was 6 weeks and I can remember standing in a circle of my husband's friends with ds2 strapped to my chest and feeling a) that I couldn't breathe and b) that there was this massive whooshing sound roaring through my ears and I was sure it had to be noticeable. Dh later told me that he thought I was really relaxed! Ha! To get me through I used to really try to feel my feet - the little toe, big toe, the toes in between, the sole of the foot, the sensation of the contact with the foot and the floor etc. I found that anything that could keep me in the present moment even for a second was a help, and breathing into and around these intense feelings. It often helped me to watch my breathing and/or ds2's breathing (and in a non-judgemental panicky way, as opposed to the frantic watching of ds1's breath where I was convinced each space between was "the moment" I'd been dreading).

I really feel for you Martha. Ds2 was due a year ago tomorrow (he was 10 days late) and some of those moments I remember like they were yesterday. Just remember it will pass.

One thing I'll say too is that any focusing you can do on the present moment in terms of sensation has the added benefit of being more likely to be remembered later. I have nice memories of lying with and feeding ds2 listening to Mindful Motherhood mp3's because I had to focus and so I was able to transfer these to my memory. Other memories are a blur. I won't pretend it was ever easy to focus on the present moment with the thoughts, fears, whooshing, imaginings, intrusive thoughts etc.. but I am glad I persevered for my own sake.

[martha2013]

I think I have come to the end of what I can cope with.

Both my babies are awake, have been since 1am, it's now 4. I'm on my own with them and I'm just so tired. I don't know how other people do it. I feel so hopeless. I'm such a failure.

[dontrunwithscissors]

oh Martha, I remember being there with my second. One night when I just went between one room and the other. Truly that was the worst night of my parenting life. It will get better. I know that's not much help right now.

[dontrunwithscissors]

I know you don't want hospital, but perhaps this is the point where you have to make some tough decisions.

One thing the mother and baby unit let me do was slow down and care for my youngest without the day to day distractions of domestic life. There was a nursery where they cared for her during the night so that I could sleep in the knowledge she was OK. They came and woke me up when she needed feeding. There was a nursery nurse who looked after her during the day if I needed a nap. It was far from ideal, and certainly not home, but I know that I could not have coped with everything. It let me prioritise bonding with my youngest for a while. They were also super-supportive of my decision to breastfeed, and then to stop feeding.

If you're so focussed upon breastfeeding without medication, perhaps that might be one compromise you need to ensure that will work? Just for a while until you get over this hump.

I remember that they showed people around the unit for them to think what they thought.

It's just a thought. I would do anything in the world to avoid going in to a regular psych unit, but I would choose to go in to another mother and baby unit without hesitation.

[working9while5]

"If you're so focussed upon breastfeeding without medication, perhaps that might be one compromise you need to ensure that will work? Just for a while until you get over this hump.

I remember that they showed people around the unit for them to think what they thought.

It's just a thought. I would do anything in the world to avoid going in to a regular psych unit, but I would choose to go in to another mother and baby unit without hesitation."

I agree, Martha.

I was lucky that ds2 was actually a good sleeper and my ds1 was 2 and a half and sleeping through in his own room and could be put extra days into nursery if there were nights like this during the tough times so I had some reprieve and could nap in the day and do my mindfulness stuff to get me through without this sort of thing.

I would not have been able to do nights like those when I was feeling like you are, I just wouldn't. That doesn't make me a failure and it doesn't make you a failure either.

In some ways, what you have to think of it as being like is that if you had good social support, this is what would get you through. You would have a mum or sister or aunt who would do what the staff at MBU would do and you probably wouldn't bat an eyelid at needing that or feel a failure, it would seem normal. It feels hard when you need people who are paid to do this care but it is what it is. You just need that extra support - it particularly feels hard if you are grieving that you don't have those types of supports that others seem to have as well as in the grips of this illness.

You will be okay, this will be okay, But self care is the first step to being a good mother. I have only recently clocked that. You can't be the mother you need to be FOR YOU, to fulfil YOUR dreams of being a mother if you don't take care of yourself... and if you can't be that mother, you will suffer.

You need extra support, be it meds/MBU/other sources. You can't be doing nights like this. Your sleep has to be protected.

Would you think that someone who was in recovery after an operation was a failure for not being up for doing a marathon? That's all this is. You need rest.

[martha2013]

I feel really confused. Maybe you are right and I need help or maybe you are trying to get me too. My husband might be able to read this so I'm not sure I can post anymore.

[working9while5]

Oh dear Martha. Please call someone ASAP.

[working9while5]

Martha if you are reading this still, you are in a severe state of mental distress and you need some real life support right now. Is there anyone in real life you trust who can be with you now and you can confide in about your confusion? It is really hard not to feel you can trust anyone and I understand why you would find it hard to trust anyone here.

If you are feeling paranoid now and that you can't trust anyone, think to yourself if you might like to call 999 and get some emergency help.

I'm looking up the thread and I can see that it might seem like everyone suddenly changed from saying that you were doing brilliantly to saying you need to be in hospital or suggesting ff but this isn't the case, it was just lots of people cross posting.

For me, I think it's just that when I see how far you've come and how brilliant you've been doing when I know what it feels like when you are so scared, I think God, I couldn't do it without sleep. It seems so unfair for you to have both children up for three hours in the middle of the night, it's just not reasonable. I can't think of any other situation where someone in that sort of distress should be expected to do that, it is only after birth that we are put under such pressure. I can cope with lots but to be that distressed with those feelings you describe and have no sleep is just hell on earth. I think it was just pure luck for me that ds2 wasn't like ds1, if it had been the other way round I would have had to go to hospital just for the sleep.

Can someone take your older baby for a night and can your husband mind your young one?

I just want you to get some sleep. If someone could just let you rest it would really help you through this and then the confusion might lift and you would be able to make a decision. I hope you are still able to read this.

[working9while5]

Keeping everything crossed this passes for you and you are safe xx

[dontrunwithscissors]

Martha, I was just responding to what you yourself wrote--that you don't know how much longer you can take the stress of sleep deprivation. I was trying to make the point that the M and B unit saved my sanity because it gave me that support with DD2 that I just couldn't get at home. I could say "I need to sleep" at any time, and they would look after DD2. (And they were the nicest, most professional nursery nurses I've ever met.) Just think about that: an absolute luxury. It became a peaceful, supportive haven.

While I missed DD1, they let her and DH visit at any time for however long they wanted. They were so welcoming. They fed them both, played with DD1 and even looked after the girls so that myself and DH could get out for a meal together. It let me recuperate and actually enjoy DD2 while she was small. If I had stayed at home, the sleep deprivation and stress of caring for both of them would have made it a living nightmare, where I wouldn't have had a moment of pleasure.

My thinking is that, if you can intervene now to get a bit of rest, you should hopefully be able to avoid a crisis. Please listen to your body and you head; I think they're telling you to get some time out before you collapse.

[scottishmummy]

if in distress you can present to A&E ask to see psychiatric liaison
you're known to services call the out of hours team,or in work hours call your team
help and support is available, I wish you and your family the best

[SnapCackleFlop]

Martha, I'm so sorry you're feeling like this. Please get the help you need to help you feel better.

Regarding the breastfeeding - I've taken lots of medications while breastfeeding and I'm certain that in the developed world almost no-one will have breastfed for any reasonable amount of time and never have taken any for of drug. You've said before the the Depakote (sp?) is better for you re side effects. It is recommended by the American Academy of Paediatrics and American Academy of Neurology as being compatble with breastfeeding. If I were you (sorry I know that is probably quite unhelpful) I would take the depakote and feel confident about continuing to breastfeed.

You are more to your children than a pair of boobs. I really admire you and how hard you work to care for your family. Sometimes it can be hard for us to see a situation clearly when we're right in the middle of it - especially when we're exhausted and unwell. I really feel that you would benefit from taking the medication and it doesn't have to stop the breastfeeding it you don't want it to.

Please go easy on yourself. x

[martha2013]

Please can someone delete all this. Please?

[lougle]

Martha, you can report your post on the right hand side of the message. That way MNHQ can see it.

Whether you do that or not, you really need to think about getting some help now. You are absolutely at the end of your tether. You just need to let someone help you.

[martha2013]

I have asked for real life professional support this week. I have shared that I am not coping, that my thoughts are strange and I am not sleeping. Nothing has changed. I can chose to take quitiapine or not and I could go into hospital or not. I'm not sure what I was hoping for or expecting but I am scared that I now face 3 days with no contact from anyone, no one involved works fridays. I feel on the edge.

[lougle]

Well done for taking that step, Martha, it can't have been easy.

Do you feel that either of the options will help you?