SAD and vitamin D? Or light box?

[Fingerbobs]

Hello
My DP suffers from SAD, we have (finally, doh) realised. I really want to avoid another descent into full-on depression so i'm looking for advice.I've seen some fairly limited research that suggests vitamin d may help, but nothing reliable about dosage. Has anyone tried this? What worked? We've started takAlso has anyone found light boxes to help? How did you fit the time into your day?
Many thanks in advance.

Matesnotdates, not sure if you knew, but if you have high bad cholesterol then treating the vit d deficiency should help. Your body stores it to help turn sunlight into vit d when you are deficient in vit d. Btw, any idea why you might be so low in vit d and have high cholesterol? Ever had a thyroid test?

Honestly, Ted, it's great you're so passionate about vit d, but don't overdo it either. I read a study last month which I will never find on my phone but could try to link to another time about negative health effects when nmol is over 160 or 180 can't remember which. Sorry it's a bit vague. Also, if people go out and buy supplements which are high dose over the internet, there is a danger of ending up with high serum calcium or low serum calcium, both of which are dangerous conditions. You'd never get that with the lower doses. I had low serum calcium and wouldn't wish it on anyone. Just for others reading the thread to be aware

mercibucket - interesting thank you so much. I have NO idea why I have the cholesterol/Vit D thing - what is the link with thyroid? When I last tested thyroid it came out 'normal, but when I looked at my results I had low TSH and low T4 (when i say low, I mean borderline).

ted - thank you, and I hear you about trying to research and help yourself. Nothing annoys me more than people who say 'oh don't google. Don't research'. If you are sensible you can weed the wheat from the chaff on the Net.

merci - I just looked up my blood tests and I have low 'corrected calcium' whatever that means? I also researched low serum calcium and that sounds grim - sorry.

I got dp a lightbox as he's a nightshift worker but he only used it twice. Cost around £130 and that was in the sale! If I could find the box it came in I'd sell it as I doubt I'll use it?

I hope you find something that works for your dh. Has he talked to the GP?

ted - sorry to hear about the polio and it's an entirely fair point about doctors and generations. I've come across it myself, when doctors in their 20s and 30s miss something that a grizzled old 60-something consultant spots at 20 paces.

And had the misfortune to end up in A&E in August when you get the baby doctors - thank heavens for the experienced, middle-aged state enrolled nurse who recognised cellulitis - which is not the same thing as a sprain at all (thanks, baby doctor, fgs) and could get nasty very quickly without antibiotics.

edam - was reading an article about the August doc phenomenon recently. Glad for you that nurse was around.

Matesnotdates - do you feel ill with the low t4? It could be worth another thyroid test. I only know about hypo (high tsh, low t4) but the tsh is not really that important, it's the t4 (and t3) that affects your body. With low t4 (and t3) your body isn't working properly so it can't synthesise the sun into useable vit d. Could be worth investigating further (maybe another thread too)

ted - I'm sure you think you know better than your DNA ...

I haven't said or implied this at all. I've questioned bad science and "nature's always best" gullibility idealism. It was the idealism that prompted me to comment on the Amazonian tribes, who lived in perfect harmony with their rich natural environment. Bad science takes isolated scientific discoveries, extrapolates them unscientifically and makes irrational claims based on flawed reasoning. Conventional medicine claims neither to have all the answers, nor to know of any universal medicine. If there were such a thing, surely humans would have found it by now. We'd all be consuming diets overflowing with Vitamin K (or whatever 'miracle cure' is in vogue). Strangely, this has never happened in millions of years' evolution. And there's never been a disease-free population.

Irrelevant, but: How long would you survive in the Amazon jungle relying only on available resources? I was only there for a month. Survived very well, thanks. I did take beer and fags, though - they really don't grow on trees

Oh dear ted
I think perhaps you are under the impression this is a BMA forum or similar. In fact, it is just fine to be a bit vague and fluffy at times.
Are you always quite this tense?
I'm also really not sure you get my concern with serum calcium levels. It is nothing to do with how much calcium you take in your diet or as vitamin pills, although there is the separate issue of course of adcal as a vitamin d supplement. Taking vitamin d can cause serum calcium levels to rise or fall beyond a very narrow range. This is a rare consequence but it is why you will find it recommended to check serum calcium levels when taking high dose vit d (see gpnotebook as an example of this protocol). Hypocalcemia is rarer still but can happen when treating a longstanding vit d deficiency that has made bones soft. Treatment of vit d deficiency used to be overseen by endocrinologists for this reason.

merci - thanks you! Will have another test I think. I feel pretty rotten but have lots of other health issues.

Matesnotdates - yes, do chase it up. Another thread on here could be useful. It is possible to be hypothyroid with normal tsh, there are other posters on here who have suffered from this. It would also be very useful to find out what your t3 is. This is harder to get as a GP test but easy to do privately.

And back to you, Ted ...
Just for you I have spent a long time on my rather crap phone and guess what, I was wrong, it is 140 nmol. I will attempt a link to the study
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.com/gwt/x?hl=en&u=jcem.endojournals.org/content/early/2012/05/09/jc.2012-1176.abstract&client=ms-rim&q=copenhagen+study+vitamin+d&sa=X&ei=XMlDUM3nBoWg0QXEr4C4DA&ved=0CDAQFjAF" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/gwt/x?hl=en&u=jcem.endojournals.org/content/early/2012/05/09/jc.2012-1176.abstract&client=ms-rim&q=copenhagen+study+vitamin+d&sa=X&ei=XMlDUM3nBoWg0QXEr4C4DA&ved=0CDAQFjAF

The study I hopefully link to was done this year and found that both low and high vit d are associated with negative health outcomes aka death. It appeared the healthiest level was around 50nmol. Now of course, in this country, we have a much greater problem with insufficiency and deficiency. However, as more people are taking high dose supplements, previously prescribable and with follow up blood tests of serum calcium levels, it is quite possible to end up with levels above 140nmol. Mine went from deficient to 120nmol in 6 weeks on high dose vit d. So perhaps other posters would like to bear this in mind when buying high dose vit d

Wrt my knowledge of serum calcium levels, perhaps you missed, or didn't want to hear, the part where I said I had personal experience of vit d supplements affecting my serum calcium. It is rather unpleasant, dangerous in fact. Rare, yes, but that's not very much comfort. I'd have chosen the slow but steady approach to vit d supplements if I had been made aware of the possible 'side effects'

Finally, it is all very well comparing sunbathing with vit d supplements, but as you know, your body regulates vit d through sunbathing and it is not possible to produce too much vit d this way. With supplements, it is possible. I would simply like people to be aware of this.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.com/gwt/x?hl=en&u=news.ku.dk/all_news/2012/2012.5/too_much_vitamin_d_can_be_as_unhealthy_as_too_little/&client=ms-rim&q=copenhagen+study+vitamin+d&sa=X&ei=Oc9DUNyKBYj80QWDvYHQCg&ved=0CBgQFjAA" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/gwt/x?hl=en&u=news.ku.dk/all_news/2012/2012.5/too_much_vitamin_d_can_be_as_unhealthy_as_too_little/&client=ms-rim&q=copenhagen+study+vitamin+d&sa=X&ei=Oc9DUNyKBYj80QWDvYHQCg&ved=0CBgQFjAA

This is a summary of the article (I have resisted the urge to post a link to the daily mail version)
I liked this one because the researcher is quoted as saying it stirs strong passions, similar to global warming. I wouldn't have believed that to be true til I read this thread. Mumsnet is always an education

Admittedly I'm not following your many links, Ted, as I'm sure you can answer any directly-phrased questions on the subject of Vitamin D. Here is my direct question.

Do the rural populations of very sunny countries - the majority of the world's population, I believe - enjoy statistically significant lower rates of cancer, diabetes, dementia, etc? Not per-population - which may be influenced by diet - but agglomerated for all out-of-city tropics dwellers, compared to all those living with diminished sunshine?