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FFS does ANYTHING work for anxiety?

211 replies

orangeandlemons · 06/06/2012 19:50

Beacuse it damn well doesn't for me.

In Jan suffered stress and anxiety form work. Have been off since then. Was on 100mg amitriptilene when I went under.

Since then have been on a whole raft of ad's. ALL of which made me worse, much much worse, Crisis team intervention worse.

Failed ad's include: trazadone, imipramine, escitalopram, sertraline: all made anxiety terrible, or made me want to top myself. Even when I managed to get through the start-ups. Am allergic to prozac and lofepramine

Now on Mirtazapine which seems to be doing nothing at all for anxiety. Nothing. Have seen consultant ho suggested Paroxetine or Duloxetine, bith of which are SSRi or simila type drug. My gp thinks would be unwise to take this bearing in mind previous episodes, and I am terrified of taking them

I had high hopes for mirtazapine, but it just seems like an anti-histamine, made little difference to anything. Anybodyoffer any help?

OP posts:
orangeandlemons · 08/06/2012 21:54

What side effects did it have. After battling on with this shit I'm on, Paroxetine is starting to look attractive

OP posts:
Chestnutx3 · 08/06/2012 22:03

also agree mindfulness meditation worth a go but I am finding it difficult to do as a regular practice, although I have been doing meditation on and off for 10 years!

glastocat · 08/06/2012 22:48

Dunno if zispin is mirtazapine, but it has really been good for anti anxiety for me,but I just use it as a sleeping tab now as I am a long way after my major depressive anxiety thing ( a Year off work, a year ago now). Cutting back on alcohol, and staring to meditate is really helping me, though mindfulness is quite hard to start with, very very worthwhile.

kizzie · 08/06/2012 22:53

Yep thats it cupcake - 'It's almost like the door has been unlocked and never closes again.'
Although I read somewhere once some myth about the chinese filling cracks in china cups with gold because they regard something lovely which has been broken but then repaired even more beautiful

Re work - I did come clean 2 years ago. And had the same response as you oranges - lots of people came forward and thanked me for being so open about it - so in that way it was a positive thing and i havent regretted it. I would never be actively discriminated against in my company but I would be expected to make a rational decision as to whether i could manage the workload full time on an ongoing basis. I wouldnt want to damage my professional reputation by taking on something i couldnt fulfil - and i also wouldnt want to let my colleagues down either.

Although there is a small part of me that thinks - tough sh** company - youve had the best years of me. You can take some of the bad too. In sickness and in health and all that Grin.

Anyway i dont have to make a decision on that for another couple of months at least (could be up to 6 months). Although uf i dont go down that route ive reached a stage in my career where i may not be able to 'stand still' anymore and may need to make a complete change.

Anyway - sorry for hijack.

kizzie · 08/06/2012 22:56

Those people doing meditation/mindfulness. Did you do a class first or did you just get it from books?

Tizzylizzy · 09/06/2012 04:38

This really is an interesting thread. I had no MH probs until birth of my DD 14 months ago. For this reason - and because anxiety would get worse everytime I dropped a feed/ before a period - I think it's hormonal.

Anyone else got that hunch?

Docs and mental health team have more or less refused to accept this and say it's the responsibility etc. I'm not so sure.

Anyhow I started an anxiety thread on here the other day when I was really struggling and although I had very lovely and caring response I felt a bit pressured to go onto ADs. One mum really more or less saying I was being stubborn and wouldn't get better until I did.

Well my suspicions have been confirmed thanks to this thread that they don't necessarily get rid of your symptoms - and in some cases make them worse.

I'll now be sticking to talking therapy and more natural treatments - although I really must cut down on the wine as it doesn't help the next day.

Still watching with interest.

Tizzylizzy · 09/06/2012 04:39
  • That sounds like I think wine is a 'natural treatment'. Ha! Just clumsily worded.
Tizzylizzy · 09/06/2012 04:45

Kizzie - in a nutshell mindfullness is sitting or laying in a comfortable position (I lay on my back). One way is to them soley concentrate on your breathing - feeling the cool air hit the back or your nostrils and then leave again. Everytime a thought pops into your head you gently push it away. At first your mind could become quite chattery but the key is not to get annoyed or judge yourself - that's your mind doing what it does best. When your mind is totally clear that's mindfullness. I had a very blissful experience early on that I've not quite manages to recreat - but every session is different. Enjoy!

cocolepew · 09/06/2012 05:22

My DH is going to go to his Dr on monday. He told me last night he thinks hes having a nervous breakdown.

Should I tell him to ask his Dr for blood tests too? is it different when you're a man?

foxinsocks · 09/06/2012 05:42

No he should have them coco. Anyone can have something like a b12 deficiency.

Anxiety is like locking yourself in a cage, with the key inside the cage but out of your reach. You know it is in there somewhere but you just cannot get it.

It is so so so debilitating isn't it. I can't do pills but I did do therapy and found it v useful. I tried a few people before I found someone who I thought would help and who got me. Every year I do about 10 sessions and just keep it going but when I first did it, it probably did take a year to feel the benefit. I am a big fan of facing fears so maybe that helped too.

foxinsocks · 09/06/2012 05:43

And btw I have anaemia and non existent b12 and it makes a huge difference.

cocolepew · 09/06/2012 05:49

Thanks fox I 'll let him know. Funnily enough his friend needs b12 injections. He was very ill years ago and this is what it was. Him and my DH are very similar in build,Dh finds it hard to put any weight on.

cocolepew · 09/06/2012 06:01

I have looked up vit b12 deficincy (sp) and he has a few of the symptons.

Weight loss, numbness, cold feet, dizziness etc.

Thanks for your help.

foxinsocks · 09/06/2012 06:01

He must tell the doc that. I had similar issues (but not all the time - I have 'something' they can't put their finger on that stuffs up my stomach) - they were convinced it was coeliac disease as all the symptoms fit perfectly. It wasn't in the end but I do have something wrong with my stomach that stops me absorbing things like b12, makes me v sick, gives me diarrhoea (sorry for TMI!). They have never got to the bottom of it but just being taken seriously was a big step forward.

I hope he is ok Sad, you must be v worried. Good that he is willing to go to the doctor.

foxinsocks · 09/06/2012 06:04

My hair was falling out before I even twigged that it was because of the b12. For some reason they won't give me the injections all the time. It's because my stomach thing happens intermittently - and I guess because they are not sure what it is (it's an inflammatory condition as I have the markers just not sure which one).

So I take the pills and omg coco, what a big difference. Takes a long time to kick in though whereas the injections you can almost feel the life flowing in you.

cocolepew · 09/06/2012 06:05

He has diarrhoea all the time. As soon as he eats it seems to come straight back out again (sorry!). i did say a few months ago that he might need his thyroid checked but the fact that he has bowel problems suggest that absorption could be the case.

Thanks again this has been very helpful Smile.

orangeandlemons · 09/06/2012 08:48

Anxiety is like locking yourself in a cage, with the key inside the cage but out of your reach. You know it is in there somewhere but you just cannot get it.
I often think it's interesting how people describe their feelings. I have my "ghost" but that is mainly depression. I would describe anxiety as a ballon tied to a peice of string in a wind. Everytime, you try to get on top of it it blows higher and higher out of reach Sad

To all fellow sufferers on here, hope you all have a peaceful weekend. It's 8.50 and I'm already breathless. Hey Ho

OP posts:
Tizzylizzy · 09/06/2012 09:28

My first thought most mornings is 'how is my anxiety today'

catinboots · 09/06/2012 09:54

Me too TizzyLizzy. And that question is often a trigger in itself!

Tizzylizzy · 09/06/2012 10:11

It's so strange.

kizzie · 09/06/2012 13:10

Thanks tizzylizzy - ive been looking at some stuff online about it - and also reading some Deepak Chopra material. Definately going to give it a try. Ive done relaxation exercises for a long time. But they are more the 'physical type' (so clenching and unclenching muscles etc).

Drumlin · 09/06/2012 13:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thunksheadontable · 09/06/2012 13:42

I was coming on here to say Mindfulness is maybe a way forward, or ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) which is a mindfulness based approach. Both are about recognising the thoughts and letting them go... not about seeing your thinking as faulty as it is in CBT.

I find CBT makes me sort of sad because I know that my faulty thinking comes from my past history, and it makes me really grieve for this despite it being a "current" sort of therapy... I have got a lot out of it and knowing about it (use it at work as well as two courses) but the mindfulness stuff has been a great adjunct to it because it has encouraged me to stop being so perfectionistic/ruminating/beating myself up about my faulty brain and crap past etc.

thunksheadontable · 09/06/2012 13:44

I did some mindfulness sessions (about 4) and otherwise am just practising. I think there is a download on Itunes but I haven't tried it personally.

I have a great leaflety thing on mindfulness on email that explains it all if anyone wants it I can email it to them? Just pm me your email address. I felt huge relief even reading it.

I am 40 weeks pregnant today though so if I don't get back to you immediately it may be because I am otherwise engaged!

thunksheadontable · 09/06/2012 13:52

PS - two other things.

1 - Just a shout out to any of my fellow ladies with perinatal anxiety disorders, I got this great book on my Kindle called "Dropping the Baby and Other Scary Thoughts" and it has really helped me put my fear and anxiety into context. I know it won't necessarily be relevant to others but I wanted to just throw it out there for anyone who might find it useful.

2 - In it, I learned this strategy that seems very mindful to me called "The Six Point Plan" for just accepting the anxiety.. I am going to paste an extract I found online about it below as I think it's very useful at the moment, it is helping me manage quite extreme anxiety (was almost suicidal last week.. Sad)

**Extract from: Triumph Over Fear. -- by Jerilyn Ross.

Six Points of Contextual Therapy developed by Dr. Manuel Zane.

  1. Expect, allow, and accept that fear will arise.
  1. When fear comes, stop, wait, and let it be.
  1. Focus on and do manageable things.
  1. Label your level of fear from 0 to 10. Watch it go up and down.
  1. Function with fear. Appreciate your achievement.
  1. Expect, allow, and accept that fear will reappear.

Point # 1. Expect, allow, and accept that fear will arise. Because of your biological makeup and or your past experiences, certain thoughts and situations can automatically trigger your fear reactions. If you have panic disorder without phobias, the fear reaction can surface "out of the blue." In either case, rather than trying to fight the spiralling process of anxietywhich only increases itrecognise what it is and give it permission to be there. This shifts you from hopelessly trying to escape the panic, toward accepting its inevitable appearance and learning ways to keep the fear from running you life.

Point # 2. When fear comes, stop, wait, and let it be. Once fear or anxiety arises, you usually expect the worst to follow and automatically start to think about and prepare to escape from anticipated disasters. This intensifies the frightening feelings and physical sensations. Point # 2 teaches you to do just the opposite: to remain in the challenging place or situation and simply let the feelings be. As difficult as this sounds, each time you succeed you further reinforce your confidence in trusting that by waiting, rather than running, the expected dangers will not happen and the panicky feelings will subside.

Point # 3. Focus on and do manageable things in the present. When you are in the anxiety-producing situation, it is tempting to concentrate on and react to the frightening thoughts and imaginary dangers, most of which are anticipated. This focus on what might happen, as opposed to what is happening, creates a spiral of catastrophic thinking. Point 3 teaches you how to interrupt this process. It guides you toward focusing on concrete, familiar activities in the present, things that you can think about or do that will keep you involved in the here and now and reduce the distressing psychological and physiological sensations. Examples include diaphragmatic breathing, observing reality, talking, writing, singing, counting, and feeling the textures of things around you.

Point # 4. Label your level of fear from 0 to 10. Watch it go up and down. To help you discover and better understand what makes your anxiety increase and decrease, you are directed by Point # 4 to observe and study changes in your levels of fear. A level of 10 means that the anxiety is perceived as seemingly unbearable (a panic attack), and 0 means that it is absent. From these observations you begin to realise that your anxiety goes up and down and does not just run wild once it appears. You become aware that there are factors in your life, including your own thinking and activities, that affect the changing levels. As you become familiar with what thoughts or activities increase and decrease your anxiety levels, you will begin to develop a sense of mastery over them.

Point # 5. Function with fear. Appreciate your achievement. Experiencing extreme anxiety or panic in a place or situation that poses no real threat or danger is not reason to leave. It is, instead, an opportunity to practice: a chance to see that you can function in spite of even the most seemingly debilitating feelings of anxiety. Once you truly understand and trust this concept, usually through much hard work and practice, you will no longer be afraid of facing your fears. Your fearful feelings and thoughts will instead become a signal for attending to and accomplishing a realistic, manageable task, rather than avoiding a situation or becoming preoccupied with the uncomfortable feelings. Each time you achieve this, no matter how insignificant the task, you're moving closer to recovery.

Point # 6. Expect, allow, and accept that fear will reappear. All learning, including learning to change negative thinking and behaviour, is an up and down process. Therefore, setbacks must be accepted as part of learning, of getting better. Sometimes progress itself brings more difficult goals that can intensify fear. Point # 6 tries to prepare you for such setbacks. As you learn to understand and cope with them, your progress will be strengthened and deepened. Every "failure" is a learning opportunity-- a chance to grow stronger.

How the six points can work for you.
The six points are designed to help you experience for yourself and thus develop confidence in the fact that although you feelings are real and frightening, they are not dangerous. You are not going to lose control, make a fool of yourself, or have a heart attack.
The most frightening sensations experienced during a panic attack or when anticipating a panic attack are triggered by the "fear of fear". The six points teach you how to interrupt the spiralling process that this " fear of fear" sets off. Think of it in this way; In order to begin the spiralling panic process, you must first think about being afraid. The primary thought in your mind usually takes the form of "what if...?" "What if I pass out?" "What if I make a fool of my self/" "What if I lose control of the car?" You mind quickly becomes flooded with additional frightening thoughts--which trigger more frightening and distressing thoughts, In other words, the primary fear thought leads to more fear, which leads to more panic.
It is therefore necessary to interrupt or change the primary fear thought as soon as it occurs. But how?
Point # 3 builds on a simple principle designed to help you do this. If you are trying to think of two things at the same time, neither one can have 100 percent of your attention. So when you find yourself beginning to focus on what "might" happen, bring another thought into your mind, one that shifts your focus back to the present. You can do this by carrying out a simple and specific activity, something that just demands enough concentration to hold your attention but is simple enough that you do not have to think a great deal about it.
The more you concentrate on refocusing your attention away from the fear thoughts and onto activities in the present, the easier it will become for you to remain in the anxiety-producing situation. The longer you remain exposed to the things that frighten you, the sooner you will become used to them. Here are some simple and specific activities that will help you focus on manageable things in the present:

  1. Take out the list of the Six Points and read it. To increase your concentration, count the number of words or letters. Say the words out loud. Say them forward, then say them backward.
  2. Count backward from 100 by threes, sevens or nines.
  3. Count anything you can see--the windows on a building, the buttons on an elevator, letters on a sign, or anything else in view.
  4. Ask someone a simple question such as the time, directions to somewhere, or the price of some item.
  5. Repeat an encouraging phrase over to yourself, such as "These feelings have passed before, and I know they will pass again." or "What doesn't kill me makes me stronger."
  6. Describe in detail all the things you see around you. Notice colour, size, shape, texture, and position.
  7. Repeat the words to a song or poem.
  8. Make up a list of people you would like to invite to real or imaginary party.
  9. Watch the second hand or the changing numbers on your watch.
10. Focus on your breathing. Picture a ball going up and down in your chest as you breath regularly and normally. 11. Tell yourself that you cannot be tense and relaxed at the same time, consciously tense up and then relax specific parts of you body. 12. Picture a place where you would really like to be, such as a beach, country home, or ski resort. Then describe the scene in detail to yourself or to someone with you. 13. Play simple word games such as spelling words backward, switching initials in first and last names, or counting the number of letters in words someone is saying to you. 14. Make physical contact with things around you. Shuffle your feet on the floor as if you were putting out a cigarette, switch radio stations by touching all the buttons, rub your hand on the arm of a chair or touch an item of clothing. 15. Imagine yourself as a rag doll and let all your muscles go loose and limp.

Obviously, some of these simple activities are better suited to one type of situation than another. For example, while it would not be helpful to try and repeat the words of a song or poem while you were attempting to give a speech, it would be helpful to rub the edge of the table, noting the texture, colour, and the feel of the wood. You don't want to look at the second hand of your watch while you are driving, but you can count backward, repeat an encouraging phrase to yourself or focus on your breathing.
The above list of simple specific activities just contain suggestions, ideas that my patients have found helpful. Feel free to use them as presented, modify them to meet your own needs, or create your own.
While you are attempting to complete your Daily Task, it is likely that you will experience varying levels of anxiety. The Six Points teach you that this is normal and should be expected. Put all of your efforts into staying with the task. With practice you'll learn to trust that the less attention you give to your frightening thoughts and feelings and the more you remain focused on something in the present, the sooner your anxiety level will come down. Do not try to control or fight anxious feelings. Let them be while you continue to concentrate on whatever it is you are doing at the moment.
There is a tendency to rehearse the bad feelings, which are based on past experiences or future "thinking". When you find yourself doing this, stop! Immediately on where you are and what you are doing. Use one or a combination of the techniques described above or in the Six Points to change any frightening thoughts. Your aim is to let those negative thoughts die of neglect.

How do you know for sure that nothing will happen to you? By staying in the present and observing what is really happening.
Ask yourself, "Am I passed out now?" "Am I out of control?" "Am I making a fool of myself?" "Are people really looking at me?"
Make yourself aware of the reality of the situation. Notice that your feet are firmly planted on the ground, that your hands are on the steering wheel, or that you are if fact carrying on a normal conversation. Tell yourself that you have felt these uncomfortable feelings before, and nothing bad has happened to you. Remember, people with phobic or panic disorder do not do things they are afraid of doing. You may think that you have come very close to losing control in the past- but remember, there is a big difference between what you "think" you may do and what you actually do.
Have you ever lost control? Have you ever done anything dangerous while having a panic attack? Have you ever passed out because of your anxieties? The answer to all these questions, I am confident, is no.
And you won't.
And the only way for you to truly believe what you know intellectually is to experience it yourself. Each time you expose yourself voluntarily to an anxiety-provoking situation and/or experience a panic attack, you have the opportunity to reinforce the fact that your feeling are frightening, but not dangerous.

**
PPS for anyone with perinatal anxiety, it's interesting that some of these strategies are very like ones recommended by Juju Sundin in her Birth Skills book.... so I am combining all sorts of approaches here to get me through!