EMDR

[thebody]

Hi my dd was involved in a very traumatic fatal coach crash on a school trip. A teacher was killed, she saw this, and 2 close friends were very seriously injured and are still in hospital, 1 suffering life changing injuries
We have been obviously concentrating on her physical injuries and as these are now mending well we are dealing with the psychological fallout.

She was seemingly doing ok but had a big panic attack last night telling me, dh and her grown up siblings that we don't understand what she has been through.

The school have provided counselling but she says this isn't helpful as she can't talk in a group situation.

A friend has recommended emdr and wondering if anyone has knowledge or has had this and could advise us.

She is 12. And this happened 5 weeks ago.

EMDR is very very useful for PTSD

I have had it but that is as an adult. A close friend has also just experienced it after car accident trauma.

Have you read this??

I've had EMDR for very complex trauma and it worked miracles. I do not know if it is suitable for children.

5 weeks is a very short time and the feelings she is expressing are normal and appropriate, if painful. If she does not find school counselling helpful you may want to stop it. It's very early for counselling. Especially with children it is often worth seeing if they will bounce back themselves.

If you remain concerned ask the GP for a referral to CAMHS (Child and Adolescent Mental Health).

Sorry did not express myself very well - so far from what you have said it does not sound like the has PTSD but that she is processing an incredibly shocking experience in a normal way.

Only if persistent nightmares, avoidant behaviour, flashbacks and panics persist for a few months it is called PTSD. 2/3 of people will be 'ok' again without help, the remaining 1/3 will end up with PTSD.

Thanks all, yes I guess it is early but people keep telling us that we shouldn't let it bottle up now as may come out later, not sure if that's right or wrong but just want to do the best for our kid

Thanks for the link never, very useful.

The not letting it bottle up is a bit of a popular myth. Talking about it is often helpful, but usually talking to friends and family is enough. And some people need to talk much more than others. Chances are that if you create an athmosphere at home of 'We will never grow tired of listen to you talk about it' (which I'm sure you do) that will be enough.

Thank u madhouse, that's very reassuring but it's so hard to listen to her talk about it without us becoming emotional and I wonder if that isnt a good environment for her to open up iucwim.

I'm sure that was a Freudian slip thebody in your last post "thank you madhouse!!" Sorry this is no time to be flippant, and Madmouse is very wise, so I am sure she will be back.

I can understand why you become emotional too, as you must have been seriosly traumatised yourselves. I think the best thing is for your daughter to talk to you, in her own family where she feels safe. I'm not sure that it will do any harm if you do get emotional, in fact it would be bit odd if you just soaked up what she was saying without showing any emotion. Of course this needs to be kept in check to some extent so that you can listen to your daughter and allow her to feel that she is being heard (you know what I mean I'm sure)

I may be way off track and have no knowledge of this, but have read about the guilt of survivors in these cases, especially as 2 of her closest friends are much more seriously ill than she is.

I have a grand daughter of 12 and she has a "foot in both camps" at the moment, child one day and teenager the next or both in the same day. I know 12 year olds are too old to be "colouring in" etc but maybe drawing, painting etc could be helpful. My friend is an art therapist though with adults, but I don't think there is any harm in anything that helps your daughter to express what is inside her. It may well come out in bits at a time and of course you will need to listen to her, support her with this for many months to come.

Sending good wishes

Apologies madmouse very red face!! And stupid I phone.

NanaNina, yes everything u say makes sense, dd does love art and think that's a really great idea, thank u so much for taking time to reply everyone.

iPhone...ah!! Lightbulb moment, is that why I forever get called madhouse

As long as you don't overwhelm her with your feelings a genuine emotional response from you can validate her feelings. There's nothing wrong with being tearful while saying Oh sweetie I'm so sorry this happened to you.

If she loves art maybe you can encourage her to express what she feels in paint, drawing, whatever she likes. And she doesn't have to show it to anybody.

Don't get me wrong though, if you instinct tells you she needs professional help, get it. But being traumatised by a genuinely traumatising event does not automatically mean needing therapy x

I have a little experience of the aftermath of traumatic events on children of your DD's age. My DD, who is now almost 22, had PSTD after an event here. The emotions your DD is displaying sound very normal, we were told that it is ok to cry yourself when she talks to you as it may help her to cry too. My DD uses her craft-y side to get her through the diffcult days she still experiences from time to time. She also writes stuff down in a journal, sometimes she burns or buries what she writes, very ocassionally she'll share it with us. DD also suffered from the guilt, she worried that she didn't 'protect' her friends.

I know it sounds trite but time does help, I'm not sure the pain lessens but the ability to cope with it grows.

Thank u both above so much for your help, dd is currently drawing the coach and putting names to seats, I guess this is ok as she very very Intent on doing this.

Guess just have to let her lead us.

Thank u both above so much for your help, dd is currently drawing the coach and putting names to seats, I guess this is ok as she very very Intent on doing this.

Guess just have to let her lead us.

Really glad your daughter is interested in drawing the coach and putting names to seats - maybe she could have a special file (pretty coloured one) ot something similar to keep her art work. Have spoken to my art therapist friend and she thinks it's a good idea for children to express some of their feelings in drawing, painting. She did advise not to ask your daughter questions about her drawings. Let her lead and be interested if she wants to talk about her art work, but not intrusive. I guess it will be like walking a tightrope for some time to come.

You are so right that you must follow your daughter's lead. I am sure you will cope well, as you sound so sensitive to your daughter's needs.

Yes, it will help her get a clearer picture in her mind of what happened which is important when your memories are all over the place. One of the signs of being traumatised is that the memories are in shards and not in any order.

We also developed a sign for when she needed to talk but couldn't say. Sounds ridiculous now I suppose but there were times when she needed to talk but life was running away with us, she would leave a ribbon attached to a clip we have on the fridge door.

My DD then aged 8 was having terrible flashbacks and behaving aggressively 8 weeks after a traumatic event. I'd had EMDR for PTSD myself and it was fantastic, I can't recommend it enough. As I knew about the subject and felt that DD was suffering from PTSD I discussed with GP who recommended I sought a private child psychologist (find one who is also employed for sessional work with CAHMS) who was qualified to practice EMDR. Obviously, I had to pay the full going rate, but this woman was exactly what we needed.

I'd had EMDR where you watch the therapist's fingers moving back and forth very quickly. You can also have finger tapping (I know it sounds odd) which is what the child psychologist did for my daughter, apparently that can work better with children. I think we had 5 sessions and she was pretty much OK after that and ever since. She still thinks about what happened, 3 years later, so if necessary we will see the same psychologist again, but so far, so good.

I'm not saying that's what your DD needs now, but just that if you do decide you need help, I would recommend it. In the meantime, you can always ring the Parent Helpline at www.youngminds.org.uk - they are there specifically to advise you on child mental health, really good charity.

Hope your DD is ok.

Can't stress enough how much each poster has helped.

Dd is now just asleep, we spent all evening with cut out counters of each child involved and she manipulated them into the coach as before and after the crash, seat belts broke and lots if the girls were tossed around the coach, she was most upset as she was trapped under the luggage rack, coach on its side, and so one if the last out, she thought she had been forgotten.

I feel drawing has helped break chat barrier and we will c how it goes, it's so hard though as we paid for her and wanted her to go on the trip and
Feel so guilty, guess that's normal though, thanks again everyone

thebody,
if you get chance make sure you too get chance to talk to a good friend - detatched from the situation, to be able to voice all your feelings about it as well.

It is your daughter who was there but you have had a heck of a shock as well.

You sound like a fabulous mother. this is exactly the sort of support that will help your daughter process this horrid experience.

Yes you are so right NeverKnowingly, I think I do need to talk to someone I think as I feel guilty and an having trouble sleeping and eating, feel anxious most of the time and guess that's the way it will b for a while.

Dd is much calmer this morning, I brushed her hair for ages, and her dad gave her a shoulder massage, we plan a shopping trip on Sunday as its her birthday next week so trying to plan nice but calm activities.

Thanks again to everyone, it's great to get support.

Yes I can see why you are feeling guilty and probably is related to the fact that you weren't there to prevent this awful accident and keep your daughter safe which is what we want to do for our children (it doesn't get any better when they are adults in their 30s and 40s as I know from experience!) Your head will tell you that you couldn't have been there, but your heart will continue to ache.

You are quite rightly putting a lot of energy into helping your daughter, but you are as you say very anxious yourself. I really think you need to find a good therapist for you to talk about this experience. This will be good for you and hopefully enable you to go on supporting your daughter. Thing is you will probably have to pay and you need to find a counsellor/therapist who you can "connect" with and feel safe and supported. You may have to try one or two before you find the right one (charges are around £50 an hour dependent upon where you live, so not cheap. I do think however that you need help, as you are not sleeping and eating and I think your first port of call would be to a GP who may prescribe something to help with the sleep problems and the anxiety.

Don't neglect yourself - your daughter's recovery depends on your being able to continue to support her and you won't be able to do this unless you look after yourself.

Sending warm wishes your way

Check your shopping plans for Sunday, it's easter sunday and lots of places will be shut. I know plans changing unexpectedly could push DD into a major wobble when she was first recovering.

Thanks nanna, yes u right do feel like we didn't keep her safe as was our job description, such a shock as older dss have left home and as u say u sort of focus on them as they out of your control and that's scary. We thought dd was safe!'

Have made an appointment to c gp on Tuesday to chat, just me. Thanks for advice do helpful.

Hellhas, thanks good advice and will do.

Great to have such support xx

Im assuming that you are in the West Midlands? if so I can recommend an EMDR counsellor - I think its one of the most groundbreaking treatments for PTSD.

Glad you have made that appointment thebody and hope the GP is empathetic. Many of them aren't but I have one who is, but it is difficult to get to see her, so she always give me an appt for next time, so I don't have to rely on the receptionists, who are often unhelpful. Keep on posting as there is lots of support on here. Just being on the site, both reading and posting has got me through many a dark day.

I know what you mean about the job description but you must try to be logical and think that the only way you could have saved your daughter from the trauma was not to allow her to go on the school trip with all her friends. And how would that have felt for her and you......and you probably didn't give a thought to a serious accident, just the usual "oh lord I hope eveyrthing is all right" - my 12 yr old gr/dghtr who means the world to me, went away on a school trip last year and I was anxious on and off all the time. It's called being human!

Look after yourself as well as your daughter - how is your DH coping btw. Maybe not able to show emotion so much - sorry I am making a presumption here. It's just how most men are.