My partner and I think her son may be a psycopath

[Samuraisam1]

Hi

My partner's 15 year old son was diagnosed with ADHD some years ago and he has been medicated for this. However, recent events have made us contemplate that he may be psychopathic; we certainly feel that there is a possible dual diagnosis here. He no longer lives with us because of the domestic abuse he was engaging in e.g. being violent towards his elder sister - he has threatened to kill her several times i.e. has told her he will wait till she is asleep and then slit her throat. He has also punched our dog and shot at it with a BB gun. Things came to a head last September when we had a family holiday. For no reason at all he would goad his sister from the moment he got up. He threw her on the floor over a chess game: he was playing his sister's boyfriend and she said "I'll play the winner". When he lost the game he became violent towards her because he didn't want her to play. He also kicked her in the face in the pool and refused to apologise. One night he tried to assault her just because she turned a light on while she was having her dinner; he tried to throw her dinner over her and went to put a heavy metal chair in her face - he has done this before when my partner and I have been away and she now has a scar on her face as a result. He threatened to burn the villa down/burn our house down when we got home and to kill my cats by "breaking their necks". He is utterly defiant and won't do anything for anyone unless he perceives some personal benefit in it. We asked him to tidy away the glasses and plates he'd used and heard him throw them in the sink. He then told his mum he'd got an electric shock off the water and she should come and put her hands in herself and see. She thought it was strange and eventually noticed that there was a broken glass in the sink with an enormous jagged edge; if she'd have blindly started washing up she could have been seriously injured - you know how we all just stick a hand in a glass and start washing it? That particular incident really scared me and we began sleeping with the bedroom door locked after that. He threw away a whole box of his ADHD medication on holiday and became non-compliant in taking it; we literally had to stand over him to make sure he swallowed it. It was during this holiday that my partner and I decided he could no longer live with us. He also shoplifts, has smoked dope and has come home blind drunk before. Even as a small child he was violent towards other children on a regular basis. During a trip to the US last year he punched his sister full force in the face in front of other holidaymakers for no reason (his sister is a sweet girl). We went through his Facebook messages and found out he has been telling people the most awful lies; these lies are told to girl he fancies, I suspect in an attempt to manipulate their emotions to feel sorry for him. He has said that our dog has died and he is upset because the dog was his best friend: he hated our dog and was cruel to it; he said his auntie and cousin died from drug ODs: his auntie died of cancer, nursed by his mum and his cousin is alive and well. He adds random girls as friends on Facebook and tries to chat them all up at the same time, often getting caught out by them, and then becomes abusive if they dare to look at another boy (even though they are not in a relationship with him). He takes no responsibility for his actions, preferring to blame me for most things because his mum and I are in a gay relationship - he is using this scenario to gain sympathy, saying she told him she was gay and then moved me in 2 weeks later - this is not how it happened - and he had no problem with me until he was told to leave. He has vivid torture fantasies that he revels in and wants to join the army so he "can kill people". He's a bright lad but refuses to do school work and is failing everything as a result. My partner has tried everything to get help re his ADHD diagnosis and these recent discoveries re his behaviour and no-one will listen/take our concerns seriously. He's very good at playing the innocent and telling people what he thinks they want to hear. He hasn't tried to apologise at all since he went to live with his father, other than a letter where he had 1 line of apology and then 6 lines of all the stuff he wanted out of the house. Unfortunately, his father is very dysfunctional too: he is a violent alcoholic drug user and continues to harass my partner 11 years after their divorce. My partner's parents, particularly her mother, are also highly dysfunctional and homophobic and are siding with the ex-husband against us in everything. My partner and I are currently living apart because of the stress of all this and, as much as I understand her guilt in closing the door on her son, I am also very concerned that if she does meet up with him he will physically harm her. I wondered if any other mumsnet users had experienced anything like this with a child diagnosed with ADHD?

This does not sound like ADHD.

I am NOT a doctor, but I have a daughter with ADHD, and I have taught teens for nearly 20 years.

Your partner needs to get some professional help, as this is way beyond the realms of normal teenage behaviour, particularly if his sister has had the same upbringing & isn't anything like this.

I think that she should start with asking for a ref. from her gp.

It's not really helpful to speculate about psychopathy, but he does need to be seen quickly for a mental health assessment. This can be arranged if you see your GP (he may need to see your partners son too). The thing to ask for is an urgent referral to CAMHS.
Please tell me that the lad is not living with his "violent alcoholic father"..........,

If he is, that is a child protection issue.

Presumably your partner's son has been seeing a doctor if he has been getting ADHD medication. Were none of these incidents mentioned to that doctor? I am surprised he hasn't been referred to CAMHS by the doctor or by the school already. It needs doing urgently.

I did a professional development on this kind of behaviour but have the info at work. If my memory is correct there are different levels of behaviour beginning with your son sounding on the extreme defiant dangerous side. I would take this issue very seriously, the biggest predictor is violence towards animals and playing with fire when young. Your son has abused your animals and could have done worse without your knowledge. I'm shocked you have been dismissed by professionals. I would not want him in my house to protect everyone. He needs help and medication.

Yes, he is under a paediatrician and we have informed social services re our recent concerns and all they did was refer it back to the school. And yes, he is living with his alcoholic father because, as 3 women living together, we did not feel safe to have him under our roof anymore. As I said, my partner's family is completely dysfunctional so getting them to get him the help is like banging your head against a brick wall. Our son, his father and grandparents are all very accomplished at not telling the truth and accusing us of lying re his behaviour. My biggest concern is trying to get my partner to realise how potentially dangerous he is because I would fear for her safety if she met up with him. I understand it's her son and it's not easy to walk away but I wonder how serious his behaviour has to become before she does.

Oh and he has been to CAMHS but as I said, he tells the professionals exactly what they want to hear and the issue is swept under the carpet again.

Social Services are aware of what his father is like, as are the school - they don't seem to regard it as a child protection issue.

OP, what happened that you no longer live with this child's mother? Are you still in a relationship with her?

I haven't labelled him a psychopath ... my partner and I have just found that our research has led to this as a possible diagnosis. He has not been brought up in a dysfunctional family, despite the divorce ... I actually really resent that insinuation. My partner and I have various elements to consider in this ie his sister, ourselves and our pets. We are all different and live in different circumstances ... my partner and I are not prepared to risk the safety of our daughter, ourselves and our pets for the sake of her son. If he comes forward with an apology and a realisation of his behaviour then we have grounds to work on. We are in agreement that this is unlikely to happen. My partner has raised her issues with all of the services re his violence and torture fantasies and it's been fobbed off every time. I'm grateful for everyone's advice on here but, like I said, we've done it all and got nowhere. Maryz ... I understand what you're saying but i feel you have judged me ... I am not talking in isolation, I am talking on behalf of his mum also. If you choose to support your son in his behaviour that's great, but please don't expect that everyone else is able to do that. I don't want to come home and find my partner/daughter/cats dead. I'd appreciate it if you have nothing positive to say that you leave my thread

He's living with his 'alcoholic, violent' father. How is that not dysfunctional?

how long have you and his mum been together? how does he feel about your relationship? how long have these severe problems been going on?

you need to stop guessing and diagnosing an adolescent. stop your online research it's not useful

given you've seen camhs and gp why are you so intent on refuting their opinion and convinced otherwise?

the environmental and social factors such as alcoholic dad ,and chaos you describe needs further assessment

you're touchy about being judged,but hey bit of "research" and teen is psychopathic. really?

It's very late so my brain is shutting down, but I am completely confused about differing relationships here.

OP are you a woman living with another woman (or were before you split up)You refer to "our daughter" - who are the girl's parents? Re the 15 year old boy - did you and his mother make the decision that he moved back to live with his violent alcoholic father? I don't understand where the boy has spent the past 15 years, and with whom. Maybe you think that is irrelevant but I'm trying to build up a picture of the boy's background.

You are clearly concerned about your partner's safety related to her son's violent behaviour, but you also presumably feel the loss of your partner. The "sister" that you refer to - I still can't work our who are her parents, but whatever, it sounds like the boy is extremely jealous of her and that could explain some of his irrational behaviour towards him. Is she older, I assume so as you mention her boyfriend. How has the r/ship between you and his mother impacted upon his behaviour.

You may well tell me to leave the thread too as you did to Maryz which I think was most unfair. She is a regular poster and talks a lot of sense, and has as she has mentioned has and is still having a very tough time with her son. She wasn't judging you, she was merely stating her view in a straightforward way which is perfectly acceptable on MN and was not in any sense making personal provocative statements about you, which are of course unacceptable.

Sorry but it is all too easy to pull the wool over mh professionals' eyes - they have so little time to evaluate, and as OP says, their patient often knows what to say to head them off at the pass.

I am not a psychopath but I have presented my bipolar to my psychiatrist in the way I wanted it to be judged - notably I carefully faked being better than I really was in hospital so as to be discharged (ex (then oh) wouldn't let me see DC and I was desperate, in an ordinary kind of way not a mh kind of way.)

The set of behaviours described do sound psychopathic, whether or not the son actually is a psychopath (whatever that means). So does the lying and manipulation (yes I know I just said I'd done it too).

The situation sounds horrendous OP. Sorry I'm not much help.

I think Mary's comments are fair. You are afraid of this man and have every right to call the police to ensure you are protected. And yes I think the cruel aspect of his behaviour is psychopathic but it might not be innate due to the violence he has experienced.

Children with disabilities are told what to do all the time and often don't feel they are listened to. This can drive them into self-destruction.
He only has his Mum and it is essential that their relationship is maintained. You must do everything in your power yo enable this to happen. He needs to be heard but you, his Mum and sister and possible partner also need protection. He sounds dangerous but damaged however not beyond repair.

I think some people don't understand that you and your partner are not dysfunctional but your partner's ex is...
I saw an episode of dr Phil about a son who sounds similar, see if you can find it. The son was removed from the house as the family's safety was most important. I think the father married a woman with daughters and the son was violent and threatening. Hope that helps you google. Good luck

Good post Maryz.

The original post does not strike me that way at all. It says 'we' when mentioning decisions.
Op I have no practical advice beyond agreeing with others that DS should not be with his father. Maryz, having had experience of something similar would be able to give you relevant advice and support.

How come it's 'our' daughter but 'her' son, op?

My Ex husband has a borderline personality and was privately diagnosed with ADHD as a child. His Mother deliberately kept him in the private system so she could choose which information was available - which became apparent when his medical records had to come into court after irrational behaviour. Consequently he has grown up and for a while was very dependant on me and when my gaze shifted from him (dying Mother and having a child) he completely imploded. They still now deny there is a problem, even though I have subsequently found out he was thrown out of several public schools for theft and violence and ended up attending a special private school for children with emotional and social problems. He was also offered a period of in patient assessment as a teenager but his Mother refused it. Their shame about the way their son was meant he was unable to get the help he clearly needed. I knew absolutely nothing about this when I met him and they chose to keep it from me too - they did tell me he had speech and language problems as a child and that he had had a few 'behavioural problems' when he was very young but nothing that would ring alarm bells.

I only know about all this because we have a protracted and vile childrens case going through the courts (for over 4 years now) and we have been subject to psych input and examination. He is actually very dangerous, has almost killed me in front of my children on one occasion and has also been arrested for assaulting another woman. He has also lost jobs for threatening a co-worker and for theft and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. My point here is that unless those people closest to that person are prepared to get help for that person than they can muddle along for a while and look as if they are ok, particularly if they have a partner/parent who makes things easier for them. It is also very easy to cover up bad mental health with professionals - my Ex is extremely perceptive and manipulative - a really nice guy when he chooses (people I know sometimes find it hard to believe how things have turned out for him)

Really I would urge you to support your partner in seeking further help, it is a very hard thing to do but it does not go away, people do no 'grow out' of this level of dangerous and destructive behaviour, there can be lulls in it but it does tend to resurface, which it has done in my Ex's case - honestly he is terrifying. Who knows what the outcome could have been with help. He is now living on benefits in a bedsit (he did have a HA flat but lost it all), bankrupt because he cannot stop rash spending, he hasn't seen his children for four years, no happy personal relationship (he has had quite a few live in relationships but the seem to go up in smoke) - in short his life is shit and he seems unable to help himself to make it better. I really am waiting for the call one day to say he has taken his own life.

Please do try your absolute hardest to get this young man some help. I do agree that safeguarding your daughter partner and pets is very important - I have been in that situation with someone dangerous and you know when it has crossed the line. This boy needs help if he has any chance at all at a happy life and he is young enough for it to make a great difference in his outcome.

Agree entirely with your post Maryz and as some of us know, and you point out that you are actually dealing with similar issues with your son, so speak from experience. I also agree that OPs reaction to your post says far more about her , than about you. Also interesting post from BSB

Anyway the OP seems go have gone quiet. I suspect by detailing all these atrocities about the boy, she thought everyone was going to agree with her. This is clearly spelled out to Maryz "If you have nothing positive to say will you leave the thread" - says it all really.

It all sounds a terrible mix up with a disturbed and disturbing 15 year old boy in the middle of it, who is desperately in need of help and support. I can only hope his mother starts to support him now that she and the OP are separated.