Angry at depressed mum

[ScarlettCrossbones]

I started this thread a while back about my mum: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feeling_depressed/1291487-Is-there-anything-that-can-be-done-to-help-my-mum

She's been depressed all my life and I can't see anything changing soon, or ever really. She's incommunicado for a lot of the time and tells me sometimes that she doesn't want me to phone her, only text. And I'm rarely allowed to go to her flat. The last flat she lived in, I wasn't allowed in for 11 years. When I can't get hold of her for a couple of days, I get worried, preoccupied, distracted and irritable with my DC, until I finally hear from her again and can relax. It's always been like this. She's not been round to see the DC since a couple of days after Christmas (same city).

For the last week or so, she's been texting asking if she can come round the following day, and then each time something has happened and she's texted halfway through the morning to say she has a chill, or a headache, or feels "wobbly". I'm used to this, happens all the time, and she usually ends up visiting eventually, about a week or ten days after she originally planned to. It can be inconvenient, e.g. if I've said no to plans with a friend because my mum's supposed to be coming round, and then she doesn't.

This morning, she texted saying she would have to wait until the post arrived before she'd know whether she could come over or not. I'm sorry, but I'm fairly sure this is rubbish, just going on previous experience, and I can't see how something in the post would be more important than seeing your DGC for the first time in two months. Well, ok, it's possible, but I'm 99% sure she's just making excuses. So I text back, saying "OK, no problem, why don't I bring the kids to yours - can be there about 3.30pm". Finally, after two hours, when I just KNOW she's sitting racking her brains desperately to think of another excuse (so yes, I'm aware it is cruel of me to do this to her), she came back with "Sorry, I have to do paperwork to catch the last post." I have no idea what kind of paperwork this is, but it's often used as an excuse too. I'm sorry if this seems uncompassionate, but this kind of thing happens SO often, and I just feel like she's insulting my intelligence. I'm getting angry on here because I just don't feel there's any way I can be angry to her face - her illness is not her fault, and it would make her feel a million times worse - really guilty - if she knew I was so cheesed off. But there are many times I want to get angry to her face and ask her to stop making silly excuses that I can see right through, and just be honest with me. But I can't do this, can I?

Does anyone have any advice, or is this something I just have to put up with? Should I continue to let her mess me around with flimsy excuses, should I tell her that I know they're mostly rubbish or - I suspect - say something in between? But what?? I will totally accept opinions saying yes, I just have to keep my mouth shut. I know I'm lucky never to have been depressed myself, and I feel so sorry that her life has been ruined by depression, but I'm afraid I still want to vent at the same time. Sorry. And sorry for the length.

Hard to say what is going on - whether she is being manipulative, or whether she is really wanting to come over but just cant face it when push comes to shove and then makes an excuse.

Thanks, madmouse. Sorry, I didn't make it clear - I know that she is absolutely desperate to see her DGC,, but she just can't bring herself to come round. It would be different if she genuinely wasn't bothered if she only saw them once every couple of months. But I know she would ideally see them almost every day if she could.

From the point of view of someone who has had mental health issues myself, I would say it's quite possible that your mum could be really frightened of the post coming. I think it's quite a common fear with people with mh issues as is any kind of communication. It sounds as if she has spent her whole life trying to manage her mh - I guess the thing now is how separate you see yourself from her. My advice would be to seek counselling for yourself about how her illness has affected you over the years. There will be a way forward - be kind to yourself. She's an adult and you're not responsible for her happiness or lack of.

Thanks, violets. It had never occurred to me she might be frightened of the post coming. I'll have a think about it, but I honestly think it's just an excuse; I'm almost certain of it. She doesn't work (hasn't for nearly 30 years due to depression), so it couldn't be anything important because it was work-related; she has all her bills on DD etc.

What I really want to say to her is something like, "I feel like you're trying to fob me off and I wish you'd just be honest with me. I can't believe something in the post could have been SO urgent that it couldn't have waited 24 hrs, when you've not seen your DGC for two months."

But she'll get really angry with me, I just know, and deny it. So on one hand I feel "what's the point?" but the other "why should she just get away with fibbing to me??".

But then, she's ill, so I just don't know if I'm justified. Opinions gratefully received ...

Hi scarlett I think the last line of your last post says it all really. It sounds as though your mom has had chronic depression through her life and it ust have been very tough for you, growing up with a mum with this illness.

However depression is a truly horrid illness and can only be understood by those who have suffered from it. I might be way off course but I do wonder if, over time, your mum's horizons have become narrower and narrower and she may even be a touch agrophobic. If she lives a fairly solitary life, then she may well be afraid of going out and though she wants to see you and the GRC she just can't face going out and so has to make some excuse to you. The more she stays in the flat in her comfort zone, the less she will want to go out. It sounds like she even sees telephone calls as instrusive - or is she afraid of this contact, even from you. Maybe she's afraid you will invite her round, and she won't have time to make an excuse.

I think if it helps you to talk to your mum about this situation, then you should do so. However you don't need me to tell you that you will have to tread carefully, as you mention she will get angry and defensive if you challenge her on this. Rather than any sort of confrontation, could you approach her by way of saying you are concerned about her, as you know she wants to see you and the GRC but "something always seems to get in the way" or something innocuous like that. Could you ask her how it would be easier for her to visit you or you visit her - is there anything you could do - offer to pick her up or whatever. But it really does sound like she is anxious at the thought of any break in her routine, and anxiety is the medical name for fear - so IF that;s what is the root of this problem, you might be able to be more empathetic with her.

You sound like you really do value your mum's company and that's a good thing. Has she lost confidence - does she have low self esteem - depression can make you feel like that, especially if she has had it for so long. Would it work if you were more nurturing to her (yes I know that daughters shouldn't have to nurture their mothers) but sometimes that is what is best.

I don't think she's scared of the post btw - I think it was just a way of putting you off to give herself more time to think and to make up excuses. Really hope that you can help your mum to do what she probably wants to do but is too fearful to do it. Again sorry if I am completely on the wrong track.

Thank you for your wise words, NanaNina. You were helpful on my other thread too. Your wording of what I should say to my mum is just perfect, and I think I will broach the subject next time I see her - though she busies herself with the children almost entirely and it's very hard to get her alone ... another defence mechanism. Yes, I think she's very probably agoraphobic to some degree too.

Thank you for your kind words Scarlett they came at a very good time, as I have been called condescending on another thread! Be interested to hear if you can "reach"your mum, emotionally of course.....although it might be physical as well if she needs you to pick her up for a visit.

Your description of your mum sounded just like my DILs mother (S), who has agrophobia and doesn't like to leave her flat. Unfortunately she is also an intensely irritating person as she turnds every conversation to something about herself; she is also something of a hypocondriac. My DIL and her mother have a very poor relationship and "spark each other off" within minutes sometimes. I try hard to be kind to her because she is the same age as me and her quality of life is more like that of an 80 year old.

If S is invited anywhere (only to one of her daughter's or son's place ) and they all live near to each other, or a day out or whatever, she immediately says NO, she's not feeling well, has a cold, pain in her feet or whatever. Sometimes my DIL cuts through all this and says "I'll pick you up mom at about 2.00" and she is almost always ready when myDIL arrives, or her sister, or my son, or whoever goes to get her (it is about a 5 minute walk fromher place to 2 of her daughters)

S is always in the victim position, she has it tougher than anyone else, no one visits her, no one cares about her, she lives alone (husband died 5 yrs ago - he was 20 yrs older than her and had a good life) no one understands what it's like to live alone. Her eldest daughter is a specialist nurse on an HIV outpatient clinic and often works a 10 hour shift and has 3 boys and a DH, her MIL (aged 86) living with her - then S phones her in the evening to complain about a headache, and then wonders why her daughter is not sympathetic!

Sorry I am going on about something that may not be of any interest to you. It's displacement activity - Sat is big housework day and I am putting it off!!