Just when i thought things couldn't get any worse.....

[PaperView]

... had phonecalls with letting agent and met him today. He has given notice to end the tenancy. I have no savings, a lot of debt and no where to go.
merry fucking christmas.

Thats right nananina, I decided that at the time I could not financially support my children and was about to be made homeless so made they very tough decision to let my ex support our children until I had permanent accomodation. This was essentially what was best for our children, not for me him or anything else. Now we seperate the childcare 50 / 50.

I do not believe I am being pesimistic just realistic and as much as pv may want someone to sugar coat the situation that is not neccesarily the best thing and I have always believed honesty is best. And in this situation the case is that she is living somewhere illegally and is geting evicted anf this at the end of the day is not best for her children

Sophia - re your second para - I think PV already knows that she is in a bad situation and this is not best for her children. You may well be being realistic but are you saying she is living illegally in the accdt because the contract was taken out in her husband's name. Can she not just explain this to the lettings agency, and that he has now left the property.

PV any news of new accdt?

She is living illegally in the accomodation, he lives somewhere else so I am presuming he has handed in notice to end the tenancy thus meaning that no agreement has been signed since he moved out. PV has stated that she cannot sign a tenancy due to credit check and reference purposes so has probably spoke to the letting agency and failed these 2 requirements therefore she is living there without a tenancy agreement and is in legal terms a squater.

I am quite confused though as pv started this conversation saying the letting agent has given notice to end the tenancy but if no tenancy has been signed no notice can be given.

I'll post more later as no time just now but I'm neither squatting nor giving my children over to my H. If they lived with him I would never get them back no matter how hard I fought. No I don't want anyone to sugarcoat anything but telling me to give up my children isn't helpful and will be a last resort. If I don't have them, I have no reason to carry on.

And its hard to post so much detail and still remain anonymous on here.

I'll post more later as no time just now but I'm neither squatting nor giving my children over to my H. If they lived with him I would never get them back no matter how hard I fought. No I don't want anyone to sugarcoat anything but telling me to give up my children isn't helpful and will be a last resort. If I don't have them, I have no reason to carry on.

And its hard to post so much detail and still remain anonymous on here.

Just read through all of this and I have to say I agree with Sophia. Things don't seem to add up with your story. But IMO the most important thing here is what is best for your DC's and not for you? You mention affording rent with benefits...you then mention DLA? Surely if your child even had a 'statement' and a diagnosis then all the benefit he would be entitled to would go to him and not to so you can claim to house yourself? At the end of the day they already have a home to go to- they are not homeless. I also noticed you put that your H only see's your DC's at weekends but your son wants to live with him? Which makes me think he must be a good father and surely if you are going to be 'homeless' like you originally stated then surely in the best interest of your children they stay with their father? Rather than be homeless? Because at the end of the day it is what is best for them and not for your mental state or YOU? I completely sympathise with how you are feeling but you have to think of them and not yourself? I just feel strongly about this because similar situation is going on in my family where there has been a breakup and suddenly the woman has turned nasty against the poor dad (who adores his kids) and she is threatening a custody battle because she knows thats where it will hurt him most. In fact I've heard the same story time and time again and everyone seem to forgot that it's all about what is best for the kids..NOT for themselves. Sorry if I seem harsh but that's the truth you need to hear. I do hope you get things sorted so you can find somewhere that will allow DSS or that you can prove income with your temp job so you can then have kids 50/50. I hope you can stay where you are over the Xmas period.

Was your ex abusive at all? If so then don't even go there. Moondancing, what? Someone you know has "suddenly" turned nasty against the dad, so? That has nothing to do with PV's situation. I haven't seen anywhere that she has said she wants to stop the children seeing their father. And it's fair enough not to just suddenly chop and change around which parent they are living with, if she has been the main carer, that should remain the situation if at all possible.

I agree that unfortunately I don't think the council are likely to house you unless you go through the long legal process of being evicted and possible even end up in B&B accommodation for a while. I agree that they should but I think it is unlikely, they are so very constrained at the moment, they basically have no choice but to give the help to people who are already homeless, not those who have a place they can stay in, even if that place is less than ideal. Unfortunately if you go down this route you may well find it difficult to find a privately rented house later down the line.

Your best bet at the moment is to look at private rented properties, not those through agencies, but independent landlords. Look in local papers, post office/corner shop/supermarket noticeboards or windows, gumtree, friday-ad, etc. Word of mouth. If you don't have funds for a deposit, ask at your local council office if they have any kind of deposit scheme, and also ask prospective landlords if they would be willing to accept a deposit paid in instalments. But it will be easiest if you have a deposit upfront - do you have any way of getting credit for an emergency? Overdraft perhaps? You don't usually have to pass credit checks to get a tenancy with an independent landlord.

at Sophia and Moon

When we talk about the best interest of the children we look at which parent is best placed to care for them. And that is not the one with the biggest house or most secure accommodation, but the one most able to meet their needs. As I'm sure you know the most important needs of the children do not center around material matters.

If it has been decided that this is the mother it is not open to the LA to refuse to house her 'because the children can go to their dad'. In my legal practice we would take legal action against such a decision on the basis that it is unlawful and/or unfair.

I think Sophia and Moon would be better moving to another thread, because I have a strong feeling that what you are saying is not helping PV, and as BB says, your response Moon to Rhks is based on something that is going on in your family; completely irrelevant to PVs situation.

I admit to being a little out of touch with the way in which housing legislation is being interpreted by LHAs (probably illegally) but my understanding is that if a person is homeless or threatened with homelessness the LHA will consider whether the applicant is intentionally homeless or unintentionally homeless. If they consider the applicant has made themselves homeless intentionally (and rent arrears cannot automatically be seen as a reason for intentional homelessness )but are in priority need by virtue of having dependent children, then the duty of the LHA is to ensure that the family are provided with temporary accommodation. If the applicant is deemed to be unintentionally homeless and in priorty need by virtue of having dependent children, the duty of the LHA is to provide the family with accommodation.I am aware that some LHAs are using B&Bs to fufil this duty, or telling people they must find a private rent, and whilst they don't advertise the fact, they will loan the sum of money needed for advance rent and deposit.

None of us know the details of the tenancy - what contractual arrangements were made in the beginning, nor the reason for the tenany to be ended, so I think Sophia and Moon you are making assumptions and stating things as fact, when you are unaware of the circumstances of this matter. As a matter of fact Moon it was me that first raised the issue of DLA with PV for one of her children with special needs, but she replied saying that he was not entitled to it, as there was no definite diagnose as yet. I find some of your phrases very unacceptable "this story doesn't add up" and as for your comment about DLA if it was awarded, "going to the child and not to be used for PV to claim she was homeless" this is patent nonsense. DLA is not being paid, so this is academic at the moment, but it is in the future, then the money is for the family to decide how it should be spent. If any family in receipt of DLA are homeless then of course the money should go towards re-housing. How is the child going to be protected if the family are not housed.

I am absolutely certain that under the terms of the Children Act 1989, homelessness cannot be used as a reason for removing children from parents, hence it would be illegal of the LA social services department to do so.

I am aware that some LHAs may make this suggestion "they can go to their dad" as in Sophia's case (though you don't say if this actually happened) but it is not legal, and as Madmouse says legal action could be taken agains the LHA in such a case.

Agree with Madmouse; the best interests of the child are determined by things other than who has the biggest house, or more secure housing, but the one most able to meet all aspects of the child's needs.

PV - hope to hear from you again.

Sorry second line of my post mentions Rhks in error - should have been PV - mixing up threads in my mind I'm afraid.

I dont think it is about material things, at the end of the day pv cannot provide permanent stable housing and the father can, this is what is best for the children, they are obvioulsy happy living there as one has already decided he wants to live with his father full time so he cant be an irresponsible monster.

So their two options are stay in an unsecure property with the possibility of being made evicted soon or staying in a home they know, trust and with someone who can support them.

You say PV that and I quote 'If I don't have them, I have no reason to carry on.'
You have to remember and I know it is hard it is what is best for the children, of course it will be hard I have had to do it but even if the LA will help you they will probably house you in a hostel first and that is not a place to bring up children.

I know nananina that the LA will consider any application no matter what the basis is but I am unsure as to why they are asking for a tenancy agreement with PVs name on it, if the full story had been told they must know that no tenancy agreement has been signed in the first place.

Sophia - I think again there is a danger here of posting as though we know all the circumstances of this case and we don't. How do you know that the father can provide permament stable housing. He could be living in a hostel or one bed flat for all we know. You can't assume that the children "would be happy living there" because one child has said he wants to live with his dad. How do you know that the father's home is one which they know (most unlikely I'd have thought) trust and who can support them. You and I cannot know whether any of those things are a matter of fact.

At the risk of repeating myself, we know nothing about the tenancy arrangements, so we cannot comment. I realise that your children lived with their father and I assume they are back with you? However each case is individual and I sense that you may be thinking that PV should do what you did, without knowing any of the circumstances.

'I dont think it is about material things, at the end of the day pv cannot provide permanent stable housing and the father can, this is what is best for the children, they are obvioulsy happy living there as one has already decided he wants to live with his father full time so he cant be an irresponsible monster.'

Sophie I can only guess you've had a very sheltered life...

Or you would know that there are parents who set their child against the other parent, making the child believe they want to live there. Or the child can only see they will have their own room and a playstation, but not that they will be palmed off on a carer they don't know as dad works all day everyday. Or the child is confused and unhappy about the divorce and finding ways to cope. Or the child has a warped sense of belonging to a parent due to abuse (yes abuse does funny things to children).

How is it better for a child to live with a parent who does not know and understand their routines, who is not around much, who lives away from their other family and their friends, maybe even school. Who has never been their main carer before.

Things are not as simplistic as you seem to think and if they OP is homeless she should be helped to find a place to live, not lose her children.

And if you want to pick up on the fact that OP says her life wouldn't be worth a thing without her kids well shoot me, same here!

The OP said that her DS3 had said he wanted to live with "Daddy" - so from this, him being the third child, use of "Daddy", I gathered that he is quite young, quite possibly far too young to be making such a serious decision by himself. We don't have enough information from OP to know whether the children would be significantly disrupted by moving to live with their father, but if she's been the main carer then it's likely they would be.

Nana I am worried that some of your information may be out of date. As I understand it working now, the council is only obliged to house the family if they are unintentionally homeless, which includes being evicted but not the tenancy ending (for some bizarre reason). I am concerned that if OP moves out at the end of the tenancy and presents herself to the council she will end up in an even worse position. In any case if the council have no houses immediately available, (which is likely), it will be a B&B. And councils do routinely offer rent deposit schemes, but far from a loan, this is a written bond made with the landlord which states that the landlord will receive no money upfront, but if the tenant causes any damage or goes into rent arrears by the end of the tenancy that the council will pay for this. Sounds good in theory, but in practice (not sure if this is true but) the general opinion of them is that they are pointless because the councils never pay up. This was the opinion of many landlords who I spoke to when househunting as I was escaping an abusive relationship. I did go to the council and they ended up putting me in band 2 which is one below homeless - ie you have somewhere to live, but it's unreasonable for you to remain. After a year I got a notification to reapply to be on the waiting list. I never bothered.

I think that people are slightly confused here, could Paperview clear up a few points here so we can get a fuller picture.
Is the fathers house suitable for your children to live in full time or even until you have somewhere sorted? Is he a responsible father and could support your children? And do you have a tenancy for the property?

I think that a lot of presumptions have been made and it will help not only paperview but also other people who read these threads who need advice themselves that a better picture can be made.

I know that this must be a terrible situation to be in and difficult for all involved and my prayers are for you in this difficult time

They don't want to transfer the.tenancy into my name and it is ony recently that i discovered it wasn't a joint tenancy anyway. So at this moment in time no tenancy is held thus meaning no notice can be given and if no tenancy is held then you are squatting. Let me put it this way if you had a house you rented out and someone lived there without a written agreement between yourself and the people is this right? Whether you have lived there for 20 years, if the tenancy was in your Hs mane and his name only and he has left the property and handed in notice which I am presuming he has then you have no legal right to stay in that property.

I said that the LA will suggest the children live with the father, not force them to or remove them.

I thinl that any parent would not allow the children to live in a hostel or 1 bedroom flat for a whole weekend with the other parent in the first place, maybe PV could clear this up, is your Hs new home suitable for the children to live in?

Going to your comment mad mouse ''How is it better for a child to live with a parent who does not know and understand their routines, who is not around much, who lives away from their other family and their friends, maybe even school. Who has never been their main carer before.

From other post PV has put up, H has moved out quite recently so was recently living in the same home as the children so they will know his routine, has been around and still is if he sees them every weekend. A presumption has been made that the H has moved miles away and if the children do live with him they will be uprooted for all they know and either way who can say that if the LA will provide accomodation soon this wont be miles away form their current friends and school. the main priority is to house the family anywhere that is available not neccesarily where they currently live now.
And he must have been a main carer recently if he lived with them in the same house.

Nananina as I previouly stated our children are split 50/50 between us which is best for our children not me our my ex. I do not think that PV should do what I do but looking from an outside pov if one parent whether it is the mother or father cannot provide a stable, secure home then alternate accomodation should be found. If this is with the father then so be it but I feel it unreasonable of PV to say that 'If I don't have them, I have no reason to carry on' Is not thinking what is best for her children it is thinking what is best for herself.
I think betty is corrent maybe PV could clear up alot of questions here and give people a clearer picture.

I'm signing off this thread now. Thank you to all who have posted already.

Just to clear a few things up ....

The DCs are 8, 6 and 3. Living with their father would mean a school move from a school that is brilliant for the 2 that are already attending it and is where all their friends are and if they really would be better off with him full time then he would have them full time.He has moved a 45 minute drive in good traffic from where i am now and another 10 minute drive to the school.

I am TRYING to do what is best for the DCs. Obviously yet another thing i have failed at.

The issue with the tenancy is simply that it is in Hs name and i am a 'sitting tenant' meaning i have lived here. The letting agents will not release H from the tenancy so the tenancy is still current. Or was until the landlord decided he wanted to end the tenancy.

There are things that i don't want to go wrt to H and I - and i am glad i didn't considering that i feel got at and "things don't add up". I am quite happy to give previous posting names if anyone thinks i am making this up! I wish i was.

Anyway, thank you to all for posting.

Paperview - I am not at all surprised that you are leaving the thread, just hope you pop back to see my post. I knew that you would feel "got at" with some of the things people have posted - quite shocking really, when they were not aware of your circumstances and making all sorts of assertions about your tenancy and your children.

You must not feel that you have failed with your children. Please don't take any notice of a few lines of text on a screen from people who are insensitive and so sure they are right.

So sorry paperview that this thread has contained some very unacceptable posts. I would be happy for you to PM me if this would help, but can understand if you have done with this thread altogether.

I hope that this will underline to certain posters the damage that can be done to someone who is emotionally vulnerable already and is looking for support, rather than coming out with stuff like "illegal tenancy/squatting/things not adding up/ your children should be with their father/DLA etc etc" - and posting in a self righteous way about your circumstances when they know nothing at all about them.

Take care paperview and I really hope you can get things sorted out, which I'm sure you will, in the fullness of time. NNx

Take care, PPV

Unfortunately the truth hurts and I do not believe it is a case of being right or wrong just what peoples opinions are and on this thread things do not add up, I have noticed form other posts that pv has left and this situation started 1 month ago so is not a recent occurence if this is the case then why has nothing been done sooner. So many inconsistencies in stories and no questions answered which makes me believe pv has something to hide.
It is the automatic assumption of people on this tread that the father is irresponsible and unable to support the children but from what pv has said he has a home which i am presuming he is not getting evicted from. The mother on the other hand has no job, lots of debt and is losing her home very shortly, everyone will agree that this isnt best for any child.
If you put a post on here it is to ask for people opinion and advice if people dont like other peoples opinions do not post

Funny Sophia how you can say in the same breath that the truth hurts and that is all about opinions. So is your opinion the truth or??

Well anyway, I have PMd the OP and you've managed to make her feel even more shite about herself as a parent so well done you.

I'm leaving this thread as well now.

In general, an opinion is a subjective belief, and is the result of the interpretation of facts or information given. Truth does not come into it it is all about what I an dother people believe.

If I have offended the op the I apologise but if you ask for an opinion on a chat site then expect to get opposing opinions and opinions you do not like. What would op prefer people to say, everything will be ok, she will be given a house by the LA and she can skip off into the sunset all happy when in reality the truth is it will be horrendously more difficult and sacfrifices will have to be made.

I think PV had far more sense than to think she was going to "skip off into the sunset" but what she wouldn't have expected was to have her account of her circumstances called into question by such comments as "things don't add up" etc and you are still quite sure that this is the case without knowing anything more than a few lines of text on a screen from a very distressed woman. You say PV has "something to hide" - I find that a very offensive comment and it may well be that PV doesn't want to give full details, and she said in her last post that she is very glad she didn't now because of the posts that she was getting, and particularly mentioned the comment that "something doesn't add up." You are continuing with your assertions eventhough you know nothing, other than a few lines of text on a screen, about the real situation in which PV finds herself.

Me too leaving the thread and hope that I can help PV in a PM message.

Sophia - I truly hope that you are never in a similar situation. Try going through your whole life turning upside down, and then give up your children.

PPV - something I don't think mentioned so far (!?) is contacting housing associations. Sorry, I don't know a lot of detail but maybe you could look up for your immediate area. Additionally, some might have affordable housing for MH tenants as well as single carers. Best wishes.