Blips and Beyond

[kizzie]

I posted this in another thread - but thought it might be better to start the bkips thread we talked about a little while ago so everyone can post here:

Sorry to bring the Blippity blip thread down - but not sure where else good place to post this.

Ive been trying to deny this for a few days - and know lots of people here are struggling so dont want to affect anyone else.

Anyway - Going through bit of a horrible blip. Very nervous that this is going to lead to 'crash'.

Basically I slowly reduced to 35mg to 50mg over 3 months because my driving was being very affected by that dose. Significant drowsiness no matter what time of day I took the dose and 3 days a week I do a 120 mile round trip for work.

Its a month now since Ive been on 35mg. This is a very low dose of this partic ad (its a tricyclic) but I was ok on this dose and lower in 2007/08 and 09.

Im swinging between thinking that i should really try and give it longer - and throw everything i can think of at it. (cbt, relaxation exercises, gentle exercise etc)

But then being worried that if I dont do something more radical (change to another ad) then I'll inevitably go downhill and end up in much worse position.

Sorry i know this sounds melodramatic. But when I have 'crashed' in the past I go from good mum, successful career, all good at home, confident etc. To being in a complete state. not able to work etc.

My 'kind of' plan is to try and give it another month - and see how things go over that time....

Hi Kizzie - so sorry you are having a blip. I know exactly what you mean when you say you think you are going to crash. Remember we are very often scared of crashing in a blip. We have always recovered from blips though. I think if it were not for the reduction in meds, you would probably just think of this as another blip, horrible as it is but would know it would go away again.

The thing is of course you don't know whether the blip is just out of the blue like they come or is associated with the reduction in meds. Given that the tryclic AD is making you drowsy, I can see your point in wanting to change. The drug of choice for GPs seems to be one of the SSRIs, citolapram, sertraline etc. They apparently have fewer side effects, but as always in mental health, it does not act on person A the same as acts on person B. IT's all bloody trial and error isn't it.

Also an SSRI I think takes 2 - 4 weeks to kick in and you won't know what side effects there are - I have heard many people on here saying that the side effects last about 1-2 weeks and many people think they are a wonder drug.

Oh wish I knew what to advise you Kizzie - you are between a rock and a hard place. Maybe give it 2 weeks to see if the blip blows out and if it doesn't go back to the GP to talk about change in meds? Think your blips are usually less than 2 weeks aren't they, but there again we never know that either do we. Longest one I had last Nov was 15 days. My CPN keeps asking me what the triggers are and I don't know.There don't seem to be any. Cons Psych came last week on routine follow up visit and put my tricyclic (imipramine) up from 150 mg to 200 mg to see if that helped matters. fortunately I don't have any side effects only weight gain and dry mouth. I am not however optimistic - have learned not to be with this horrid horrid illness. It all seems to be trial and error.

I would try hard not to get into a negative thought spiral about crashing (easy to say I know) but it is difficult to think a 15mg reduction could cause a crash. It's just that we are so scared of that happening aren't we.

Sorry I can't be more hopeful.
Be kind to yourself during this blip and remember all the others have blown away and this one may well do the same. If not, you do have another course of action (to change meds) but obviously would need to discuss this with GP as it sounds like you've been on the tryclics for some considerable time (you mentioned 2007/8)

Keep in touch Kizzie and let me know how things go....NN x

Thanks for replying NN. It does really help to hear from others who have been through similar things.

I think the waiting 2 weeks is a good idea and the best thing for me to do. That way I'm not leaving it too long before intervening.

Im very very nervous about changing medications because whichever one ive been on (ssri or tricyclic) Ive always been much much worse at first (for the first couple of months) which means I havent been able to work etc.

But going to try very hard not to think about all of that and just deal with the day to day.

Thanks again NN x

Ps. sorry meant to say - hope the 200mg works well for you. will keep a look out for how you are doing x

Am a bit confused Kizzie cus there seems to be 2 threads on the go......not sure which one to use.

This one NN - sorry !

Shaky & low again today - but managed to have some time 'at ease' last night.

Oh Kizzie - I know that shakey and low thing so well. On bad days I usually get bit better through day and usually more or less ok by evening, so you may be the same. I can't remember whether you have children Kizzie - I think it might have bee you that told me I was always thinking it was worse for women with children than it was for me, but sometimes I feel I can't cope with the cats!

Have you got a little plan to get you through the day - during a blip I just have to go hour by hour but really do believe that a short walk helps. I have walked around the local park and streets on cold, wet, grey days, sometimes feeling like I just want to run in front of a car and end it all. But when I get home usually feel a teeny bit better.

Have you any family/friends who could come and support you. I have a couple of wonderful friends who come sometimes when I'm blipping, and justlet me moan and cry and then I am sometimes able to perk up a weeny bit - well not exactly "perk" up but feel a bit more 'at ease' as you put it.Have you got a CPN you can contact?

Thinking of you Kizzie and hoping the torment of the bloody blip will blow out sooner rather than later............keep in touch and be gentle to yourself......NN xx

Hi NN.
Ive got 2 sons. Nearly teenagers now though so not little ones. Also work 4 1/2 days a week.

My DH is v supportive now (he wasnt when I first had it - couldnt understand what had happened to the feisty woman he had married.) I know im really lucky with that.
Now that the weathers better and evenings a bit lighter im going to try and do more walking.

Thanks for the supportive messages! Im really hoping too!! x

Hope no-one minds me rambling away on here. Ive kind of put a plan in place for the next few days to try and calm down the 'anxious' thoughts and hopefully let things calm down. Still feeling shaky and scared that will lead to a real downturn.

Notes to self:
Need to work harder at CBT thinking etc.
Go to bed earlier
Reduce sugar
Do breathing exercises at least twice a day

Well done Kizzie, that sounds like a good plan hopefully it helps you feel better xxxx
Sorry I'm not great at the advice just want to let you know im thinking of you xxxxx love maddie

thanks maddie x

Hi Kizzie (and Maddie) - I think it's good to have a plan Kizzie. Can you get in a walk (even if just a short one) in your plan, as I think that really does help, especially in this nice spring sunshine. Hope you will start feeling a bit better soon. NN xx

Thanks NN. I agree re. the walking - the other thing that seems to help is to 'make' myself to relaxation/breathing exercises. Even though at first they dont seem to help t all - seems to have a cumulative effect over a few days/weeks

Hi Kizzie - how is the blip? Hope you are managing to get through as best you can. I woke up feeling flat and crap today and it's lasted all day and just a bit better now. Am especially upset because I was just daring to think that the increased meds just might do the trick. I know I must not get too negative and have been trying hard not to. Went for walk in lovely sun today but walking through the park everyone seemed happy and smiling and I felt so envious - bit ashamed to say it cus I'm not an envious person. Called on my lovely friend but she wasn't in. DP being very loving so I am lucky I know, but as always when like this dread waking in the morning.

Take care and keep in touch and maybe we can "blip" together! Love NN x

Hi NN - only just seen this but posted to you on other threads too. Am very nervous to say but found today easier .... always worried that I might tempt fate with these blips!
As I said in other thread - i think lovely sunny days can make things feel worse when you are low/detached - because you feel so cut off from everyone else enjoying the weather.
Hope tomorrow a lot better for you xx

Hi Kizzie - thanks for message and on other thread too. Glad you found today easier but I know what you mean about tempting fate. I was just daring to believe only yesterday that the increase in meds had done the trick so more upset cus that does not seem to be the case. Mind this is only the 3rd bad day I have had in March but it's just the not knowing isn't it - that you never know when one is coming or how long it will last. I like the sun when I can sit in my lounger chair in the garden, but yes when in the park it's hard because everyone seems so happy to be in the sun. Don't have any expectations about tomorrow cus rarely (or ever) have just 1 bad day, but suppose it could be a bt better and hope it is for you too.

I've been answering a few other posts as it makes me feel more like myself to offer support to someone else. Maybe this is true for all of us, cus sometimes I see someone posting sounding and obviously feeling terrible but reaching out to others. I have just been posting back to a young woman with PND single mother with 18mth baby and terrified of going to GP. Just hope she can overcome her fear enough to get there...........

All for now............am sure we will be in contact again...........NN x

please feel free to ignore this - im just going to ramble on to myself to try and clear my thoughts.

In last couple of weeks have had some better days and i thought the blip was over.

But last two days very shaky and low again. Its 7 weeks now - nearly 8 since i reduced down to 35mg of clomipramine. (reduced over 3 months from 50mg so very slowly).

Have been ok on this dose in the past - but it is very low and so dont know if its just not enough anymore to keep my symptoms 'bleeding through'.

Ive been on ad's so long now. 11 years!! Following PND.

The best ive been in those years was on this partic ad - at between about 25 & 35mg. Was very well for over 2 years 07/08/09. So it is possible. Ive just got to keep telling myself that.

And despite my fear that Im 'risking everything' (I know in CBT it would be called 'catastrophising') in reality if I try and stick to this dose for another few weeks at the same time as trying really hard with relaxation etc. Im not really doing any harm.

Going back up on the dose isnt really an option - because the side effects make it difficult to drive - and switching to another one is v difficult for me because when I start I new one I seem to get much worse before I get better.

So 'hold your nerve' Im telling myself.

Sorry for rambling on so long.....

Hi Kizzie - I've probably asked you before but why did you reduce from 50mg to 35mg. How were you on the 50mg dose?

What were you on for the 11 years since your PND - oh sorry just noticed you were on 25 & 35 mg. Were you only well over 2 years, 07/08/09 during those 11 years?

I'm sure you aren't going to do any harm by sticking on your present dose but the thing is you want to feel better of course. Were you unable to drive on the 50mg. Do you have to drive far - I get a bit mixed up with posts - do you have to drive a very long way on 3 days a week - sorry if I'm getting you mixed up with someone else - I probably am! Are you able to hold down a job Kizzie.

I'm asking all this just to get a better understanding of your situation.

I was on imipramine for 14 years after my first severe episode of depression after death of closest friend but made complete recovery and had no more trouble for 14 years. I then decided I needed to come off the meds and under the supervision of a psychologist I did - it took me 10 months and I was pleased to be off them - July 2009. But by December 2009 just a few months later I was getting dep/anx symptoms but didn't want to go back on meds after trying so hard to get off them, but I nose dived and ended up on psych ward last Easter, for 3 months. As you know I have been having blips ever since I was discharged last July and they are really getting me down.

I'm just wondering if there is anything about being on meds for so many years like you and I and then not being able to fully recover.

My sympathies are with you Kizzie - I know so well that feeling when the blip comes (am blip free at the moment) but am really anxious as my son, dil and grandchildren are coming for Easter (they don't come very often - live in another country) and I am so anxious in case I am in a blip when they come. Am almost hoping for one soon so it might have gone bythe time they come!

Sending warm wishes and hoping for you to have some easier times soon.
Even when I am blip free I am still anxious sometimes - I was crying because I couldn't find my car outside Sainsburys on Friday night and felt shakey all evening................oh damn this horrid illness.

Hi Kizzie and NN,

It is an interesting debate about meds and blips. I've been on mine for 8 months now and would quite like to lower my dose as I seem to have been ok for a bit now - but the thought of it scares me...as does my CBT finishing (my therapist says I'm ready for discharge after my next session). I guess the subconscious insecurities also add to any chemical issues to cause blips.

NN - in answer to your question on another thread (sorry for cross-referencing) I had CBT therapy and I think the success of it was largely due to the quality of my therapist...she is brilliant and we bonded fairly quickly.

As for crying when looking for your car - that's something I've done before when not particularly depressed/anxious! I cry pretty easily (even at cheesy adverts) and sometimes think my 'over-sensitive' wiring is a key contributor to my emotional wellbeing!

Love to you both - take care and keep sailing over the crest of the blips with confidence and belief that calm shores await xx

Thank you both for replying x

NN yes it is me with the driving. I drive 60 miles to work 3 days a week. (only 15 miles on the 4th) but the drowsiness from the medication was making motorway driving very difficult - not to mention dangerous.

This morning has been very difficult again - but im going to try really hard for the next few days to try and keep everything as calm as possible.

It really is like im two completely different people.

NN - I was 'ok' on seroxat for about 3 years but i had terrible problems with withdrawal from it and then it stopped working. During 07/08/09 on the 25/35mg of clomipramine (which is what im on now) Id say i was back to normal. Because i was such a low dose for a long time (a normal dose is between 75-150mg although some people take much higher) my dr thought i would be fine to come off completely. Even then i did it slowly - but i just dont seem to be have been able to get over it completely this time.

I wasnt brilliant on the 50mg - still having significant blips - so i dont know whether this time im just going to have to find another way through.

I find it all very frightening. But got to keep hoping that will stabilise.

Im going to stay with family for a few days from tomorrow so probably wont be able to log till net week. Hope you have a good few days.

Natsyloo - dont let my experience make you anx re. withdrawing. Seroxat has a particular prob with withdrawing and also you havent been on it very log. Just remember that its really importnat to do it slowly. Your CBT person sounds fantastic - i think i may need to try and find someone locally. Were they recommended to you?

Take Care x

Hi gals,

Kizzie - sorry to hear you're having a rough time with the meds -the driving thing must be a real challenge. I've had problems before with panic attacks in the car so I know how hard it can be keeping facing your fears.

As for my CBT therapist - she came on referral from my GP so I guess I was lucky.

NN - really glad you're having a break fom blipville - it can be hard going can't it. Try not to put too much pressure on yourself re: easter weekend - you'll manage whatever happens, and I have a suspicious feeling we're infinitely stronger than we think (though it doesn't always feel that way).

I'm having a mini blip at the mo - back at work which is taking some getting used to and also have nasty swollen glands and earache. Generally have been good so far but started having NATs at work which drove me a bit bonkers about being a fraud at work and feeling a bit lost and empty (classic low thoughts/feelings for me).

Interestingly this is what I'm tackling in my last CBT sesh - how to do a blueprint for nipping blips in the bud before they bring me down. I've been asked to go through all my notes (and there are reams) and pull out key paragraphs that help me and techniques so I have a shorthand version of my notes to help me cope.

Anyway, hopefully some rest and better health will improve my mood and perspective.

Maddie - hope you're ok sweetie. We'd love to hear from you xx

oops - just realised I asked about Maddie on the wrong thread. Feel like I'm thread hi-jacking